How much will a fleece liner add to sleeping bag rating?
Thanks in advance?

Depends on how thick it is.
I think I remember that a thin silk liner adds 5 to 10 degrees.

If I remember correctly, that's about what you get with a fleece liner. Another option is to use a Therma-Rest pad with a space blanket wrapped around it and you. The space blankets weigh next to nothing and radiate heat back towards you. The pad will insulate you from the ground and add to your comfort as well.

This seems like stating the obvious, but have been surprised by how many people don't do it.....wear a touque (stocking cap) in your bag and it'll add another 5 to 10 deg to your comfort zone.

Cheers,
Canuck

Thanks for the advice.What do you think about The North Face Cat's Meow 20 degree bag for a October Alaskan hunt?If needed I could add a liner.

I'd look at the Wiggy's bags before making a decision on a sleeping bag. There's a reason why the military, the Boy Scouts, and many other organizations up here use them. I would look at the Super Light which is good to 0 degree's.

quote:

Originally posted by Rsm458Lott:
Thanks for the advice.What do you think about The North Face Cat's Meow 20 degree bag for a October Alaskan hunt?If needed I could add a liner.

the cat's meow and the t.n.f. slightly warmer snowshoe 3d 0 degree bag are great for hunting. i had the snowshoe for many years i now ride an integral designs bag.

the cat's meow would be good if you said sept. but oct. can get cold. can you take the chance? i would forget the liner and instead get a bivy sack for the outside which will give you another 8-10 degrees, that you can get by with. the bivy sack has the added advantage of keeping your bag dry and it can be used by itself in a survival situation and that would serve you better than trying to hunker down in just a liner.

if you need a rec' for a bivy check out the black diamond winter bivy at 10 ozs you will hardly know you have it in your pack. costs about $100.

stay warm...

Canuk,

You are absolutley correct! Wearing a watch cap is so obvious I didn't even mention it.

Rsm

Your sleeping bag can become your life support system if things get bad.
Also at night is when you recharge your system, you do not want to be cold and uncomfortable.

I am a big fan of down bags. I have a Goretex Marmot 30 degree below zero bag...

However on my first trip to Alaska I was told not to bring a down bag under ANY circumstances.
If a down bag gets wet it is useless.

I bought a Mountain Hardware Zero degree bag with synthentic fill.

I have slept in it for about 50 days in AK and it has worked great.

On warmer nights I zip open the "foot" section so I can still have it zipped up around my shoulders.

I always have a Patagonia face mask and fingerless wool gloves with me if it is cold.

I also take a pair of expedition weight bottoms, and have slept in a Pataginia puff ball and or fleece jacket when necessary.

If I know the weather will be below freezing I like my down bag, however in wet weather I think synthentic fill is safer.

No matter which sleepingbag I use I have it packed in a dry bag.

Also, you must use some kind of pad under your bag or you will freeze to death, as your body compresses all the in insulation under you.

Thermarest pads are nice, but I usually use a roll up, or the fold up foam pads as they cannot "spring a leak".
Even if the guide/outfitter says he has a pad, I always take my own, [got burned {actually froze} here once].

Do not skimp on your sleeping bag.

Take a look at Mountain Hardware bags.

M70 NUT What is a Wiggy's bag and where would I look at one? Please !

I buy my Wiggy's gear in Anchorage at Wiggy's Alaska! but you can also order it online at:
http://www.wiggys.com/

I've got bags by North Face, Integral Designs, Wiggy's and a few others....

I buy Integral Designs now, exclusively....they are very difficult to beat, in my opinion.

dave;

have to agree with you. i slept very well in a northe face snowshoe for many years, great bag. i am now in an integral designs.

keeping up with changes in technology will make you sleep better.

From what I have heard, the Wiggy bags are heavy.

And the guy that started Wiggy a total nut job.

A while back he faked his id and began posting on kifaru.net in defense of his bags. He was outed and it was quite a funny thread.

check out the new sleep system at kifaru. It will be expensive but top notch.

I've heard the same thing about Wiggy too, didn't stop me from buying one of his bags. His bags are excellent and tend to have more room than any of the others I have tried. After spending so many nights in mummy bags that have no room the Wiggy's bags are money well spent as they are guaranteed for life to hold their loft. How many other manufacturers offer that kind of guarantee? I'm not defending Jerry Wigetow at all but his bags are worthy of some consideration in MHO.

I have been to his store in Grand Junction and met him...he is a nut. I also have three of his sleeping bags and a parka, sweater, some mittens and face mask. I have been with other people when down has failed and it is not good, ruined the trip for them. I have his parka because I have a nice down parka but am a little afraid of it now(after watching a friend overheat in his and spend the next day trying to dry the inside of his parka out over a camp fire)

I think his insulation is very good...some of his fit and finish is not as nice as TNF of intergral designs or even marmot/mountain hardware bags.

If you compare apples to apples his bags are barely heavier than other synthetics. High fill power down is half the weight and twice or three times the cost. I have an Ultima Thule with the overbag and have been warm at -25F in a mountaineering tent(no heat). I think the only thing warm about that trip was the sleeping bag.

Back to original ?....a sleeping bag for october in alaska. On the north slope? In SE? If I was interior or north slope I might bring a very warm bag(-10 or so) just to be safe...an extra pound or two unless you are backpaking won't be noticed but you will be happy you are not in a 25 degree bag if it drops to 0.

-phil

Staying warm in SE is often more difficult than doing so in the interior, or slope......

I read somewhere, but do not recall where exactly, that the merkalon / 'fleecy' type sleeping bag liners add 3 degrees centigrade to a bag's cold weather capability.

This was in one of those brochures for aftermarket kit that UK soldiers buy from: Snug Pak slleping bags, fleece pullovers etc. The Royal Marines and Paratroopers etc buy this sort of kit for Norway in Winter and, now, Afghanistan.

I have also read that if you are cold, layered clothing really helps - put on another pullover / sweater, light jacket etc. Of course, you will need a roomy sleeping bag to do this.

If You are looking for some extra warm, have a look at the Yeti Exner Design VIB 250, which weights about 500-550 gramms and adds enough warmth. If You search one, have a look at www.gecko-climbing.de

I am sure it´s better performance then any fleece liners AND it´s less bulky. I have that 250 on my own: great summer sleeping bag for warm area´s and you could use as a liner in warmer bags. It ´s pretty small when packed!

I took a 0 degree Wiggy's bag to Alaska this September and was fine. However, the temps only got to freezing one night. I'm considering a 20 because if it's not really cool, I sweat to death in the 0 degree bag. One caveat, my Wiggy bag is bulky, but it's warm.

I vote for wiggys also--I also have the Ultima Thule with the overbag--it's great and I've never been cold in that bag and I've been in some -15* nights(if not colder) in that bag with no other heat--in fact I wear only my skivies and a stocking cap when sleeping ---now that being said it's heavy for back packing---9 lbs 4 oz with the stuff sack, so next year(if we back pack in) I'm not taking the overbag(I need to make my pack lighter), but I did buy a liner and bivy from www.titaniumgoat.com that I'm going to try---if I remember right the liner weighs 4oz and the bivy 8 oz and I'll wear my long johns if necessary--hopefully this will save me 3 lbs or so---again I'm a wiggy's fan through and through---chris

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
This seems like stating the obvious, but have been surprised by how many people don't do it.....wear a touque (stocking cap) in your bag and it'll add another 5 to 10 deg to your comfort zone.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck is spot on. This is excellent advice that many overlook. Depending upon the prevailing circumstances (percentage of body heat lost from your head):

Conduction and convection about 25%
Radiation about 43%
Evaporation and moisture about 30%
Exhaled air about 2%
Evaporation prevails at high ambient temperatures. Conduction and convection prevail at low ambient temperatures.

I make a living outdoors and depend upon my clothing and what I have on my back for shelter. Even though I've become acclimated to harsh conditions and therefore may have a higher tolerance to the cold than most, I'm still like everyone else prefering to keep my sleeping gear small and light. Just adding a touque per Canuck's tip enables me to sleep very comfortably in a lighter bag where without the touque I'm miserable in the same bag.

GVA