Or a backup scope? Or even only irons. I ask this because of a conversation the other day, in which the opinion was voiced that modern scopes can take a bit of a knock and remain true. In the same conversation there was a guy who only ever used a Lyman receiver sight, which l kinda liked the idea of, providing the shooting opportunities were not too far off.
Opinions please gents.

Scope only
A hard fall can happen but a zero check is simple in the field

Lazer a large boulder.....pick a spot.....shoot
Move on or adjust scope

My Savage 24V has a Weaver 2-7X on QD mounts, also a folding peep sight just forward of the scope mount. This is partly so as not to jar the scope with the shotgun barrel, but the 6x45mm caliber is planned as a 200-yard antelope and sage grouse gun and the scope is not really required.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rgrx1276:
Use them on ALL of my hunting rifles.

Well I think iron sights are perhaps most useful on a backpack rifle. Carrying a second scope just in case is a lot of dead weight for the rare times it would be needed. Relying on just one scope is fine most of the time but Murphy has a way of intervening leaving you no other option.

By its nature a backpack hunt is hard on equipment. On no other type of hunt is the potential of a fall greater. If you land on your rifle than what? The addition of iron sights adds almost nothing to the weight of a rifle and could very well save the entire hunt, especially one that may cost a significant amount of both money and sweat equity. Plus there's then no reason to shoot up the hunting area checking your sights.

Best solution is to bring a friend with another scoped rifle.

I'm scope only.

My brown bear rifles all have the same set-up. Talley detachable's and a Talley peep on my person sighted for 75yards. It take about a minute to switch. Talley has a rear base made for this purpose.

Waterat
That setup sounds ideal, I'll look into that

If I have to walk out four days because my scope reticle broke, or it filled with water and lens totally fogged up, or got bent, lost zero and stopped adjusting (all happened to me) then I will be highly annoyed if I didn't have iron sights on the rifle.

I have had three scopes die on me in the bush on trips, one was old, two were new name brands.

on backpacking trips away from tracks or the road, I will take a rifle with iron sights as well as a scope.
I am not fussy about it, either a peep sight or open sights are fine.

Iron sights are tools I still use on some rifles - I have shot four deer this year with open sights, so I am happy to work with them and their limitations.

So having them as a backup to a scope is a no brainer to me.

(No way I am carrying a spare scope anywhere on a backpack hunting trip)

My 5lb 11oz 416 ruger has alaska arms quick detach rings and a peep that fits my rear receiver. Like waterat, quick change. I do however practice with my irons as well. Which is key if you actually want to depend on them as a backup plan.

quick detach alaska rings and great open sights coming from 375 ruger alaskan.

My Ruger M77 has the scope mounted in regular ruger rings which are easy to detach and also has a front sight, I carry a NECG receiver sight in my pack as a back up.

I like irons on all rifles, but with my old eyes, the Talley peep is the best I've encountered. It replaced the scope on my Lott.

I use irons, mostly tang sights, on all my hunting rifles with the exception of a squirrel rifle. Why would anyone use a scope on a big game rifle. Never figured that out.

quote:

Originally posted by Brent:
Why would anyone use a scope on a big game rifle. Never figured that out.

Better sight picture, better lighting, better use in brushy areas where you need to see past things, better precise target aquaition past X distance (x is different for everyone), more accurate detail when it comes
To a moving target, easier to see small branches or objects that may be between you and your target, the extra field of view is valuable when shooting at a herd animal, the magnification helps if you have multiple animals together and can’t tell which one has been already hit or maybe determine your about to shoot the right animal....

Some reasons I’ve seen.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

quote:

Originally posted by Brent:
Why would anyone use a scope on a big game rifle. Never figured that out.

Better sight picture, better lighting, better use in brushy areas where you need to see past things, better precise target aquaition past X distance (x is different for everyone), more accurate detail when it comes
To a moving target, easier to see small branches or objects that may be between you and your target, the extra field of view is valuable when shooting at a herd animal, the magnification helps if you have multiple animals together and can’t tell which one has been already hit or maybe determine your about to shoot the right animal....

Some reasons I’ve seen.

Oh, I realize what you are saying. I might quibble about some of the details, however, the solution I find is to just not shoot when the set up isn't right. I don't have to take a shot to be successful or whatever. That said, I also think most folks really sell themselves short with respect to what they can, or could, do with iron sights. That rifles are now sold w/o the ability to use irons and that vast majority of shooters (hunters?) feel that every new rifle they buy simply will be scoped as a matter of fact, speaks to notion that most hunters are either ignorant or too lazy to learn how to shoot irons. To be honest, it doesn't really take much learning either, many have never even tried.

I really enjoy my irons but I won’t intentionally hunt with them. I don’t see any reason to when I can use my scope that will offer me so many advantages over my irons, when I’m trying to kill something I’m not gonna short change that animal when I don’t need to. Course I don’t really enjoy bowhunting either. Lol
All that being said I believe irons are a last art almost these days, kids used to start with them and now they skip right over that basically forever.

This, "...gonna short change that animal ..." is the part that I completely disagree with. There is no such thing involved at all.

Yes, kids skip right over iron sights - so do adults. But it is no art. They are sights, not paint brushes.

creating a circle and a dead horse here
Enjoy the fall Brent.

For what it’s worth....

Art. Definition
#4 A skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice.
"the art of conversation"
synonyms: skill, craft, technique, knack, facility, ability, know-how
"the art of writing"

I have taken 4 deer in the last six months with open sights, and hunt with them regularly. Probably half of my deer are iron sights and half with a scope.

As to whether I use one of the other - its depends what you are doing, and also my mood. If I like an old rifle with open sights then I will hunt with it.
There is not really much disadvantage to them for my hunting, and I do alright.

Sometimes I deliberately choose a rifle without a scope, such as when I am backpoacking in difficult country, canoeing; or when hunting is a secondary or supportive aim of the trip...without a scope every rifle is lighter, less bulky easier to handle, and better in the rain.

Of course there are marked advantages to a scope - mostly in thick bush where you can pick a hole and shoot through a gap, and where the two dimentional lens makes it easier to see through the leaves; also in dusk and twilight. And a scope makes it easier to call your shot too.

If I know I am going to be sitting and waiting it the evening I will have a scoped rifle.

But in the last years I have spent more time wilderness wandering and shooting the odd deer, so I usually will take an open sighted rifle, mostly it will be a lever action.

I am not disadvantaged much in the real world at all to be honest, except in low light. I have not yet passed up an animal that that Iwould have otherwise shot with a scoped rifle. I have missed - but I have made dumb misses with a scope too.

One thing I will say with open sights is that often I shoot better on game I feel, because I am not going for the trigger when the scope wobbles the right way. With open sights I cant see the wobbles and I think I have a better trigger pull on animals, particularly shooting offhand. I cant prove it but I believe it.

as to it being a lost skill, perhaps. I know many hunters who have retired, who have never shot a deer in their lives without a scope.

It depends where your hunting as to backup sights on a rifle. If you are four days walk from the road, then I will want backup iron sights. I wont fret about it, if I don't have them, but I set up my rifles that way anyway beforehand because I have been caught out in the past more than once, and because I know I can use them.

No backup gun on backpack hunt. My scoped Kimber 325 does not have iron sights. Call me crazy but I don't worry about it.

I now hunt with a scoped Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter with Ruger detachable rings. The sixgun has sights on it and is sighted in for the load.

Like 416 says, a scope allows more precise shot. I've also noticed that now my 57yo eyes can't focus the front sight on a rifle. But I can focus on the front sight on my pistols. EAch to his own.

I had a front sight put on my .338 mag for Africa, and carried a solid, top-mounted peep. I haven't bothered with the Tikka 270WSM I use for backpacking, though, mainly because I hadn't thought about it. It does save a couple of those ounces everyone says is so important for this purpose.

Hearing of multiple scope failures here, however, might cause me to rethink. The 270's Leupold has stood up to the rifle being dropped three times, but I would not want to trust any scope with a constantly centred reticle for too long, considering the dodgy design this technology requires.

I have always had back up iron sights on my hunting rifles. I don't want to invite Murphy to the hunt. As the years have gone by and scope dependability has expanded, here is what I have done to cut the variables.
1. I went back to simple fixed power scopes.
2. As we age and our eyes are not what they were. I propose this solution.
Get a Leupold 2.5x20mm scope that has 4.9" Eye Relief, at 6 OZ. It will fit most rifles. put a Talley aluminum detachable ring set, pre sighted in and your set. You can leave it in camp with your gear and don't have to lug it everywhere. Most will outshoot an iron sight shooter with it.
Just a thought and safe hunting.

If one thinks a scope can take a lick, sight in your gun very carefully then wack it with the palm of your hand and shoot a group..Your zero will move from 3 to 12 inches almost every time and no matter how well its mounted..Don't take my word for it, try and then be honest with yourself and others...

Barrel mounted iron sights are all but impossible to knock off zero, the worst that can happen is bend or knock off some of the flimsy front sights..A heavy front sight is your best bet...The downside is, with irons you may give up some accuracy and ability to hit game at extended range, but with practice a good set of irons will work at 200 yards and with some at 300 yards,depends on your skill level and the size of the animal..300 yards is almost as good as most can shoot a scope I suspect as most of todays hunters who have never used irons, would be better off with a small scope on their rifle and have an extra, that's sighted in, in their back pack. I do that sometimes when hunting horseback with a scoped rifle, and its been my hunt salvation having that extra scope in my saddle bag or chap pocket..Today I have irons on All my rifles and don't need that extra scope.

I personally have never had a failure of any kind in my 70 years of shooting irons, I feel confident with them under most conditions, but Ive had to pass on some big trophys that I think I would have got with a scope..no matter!~

That's an interesting post, Ray, and I think you know my outlook on stuff like that. While I have never tried deliberate abuse, I did carry one Kahles scope on my .338 almost every hunt for 33 years. If I didn't slip over once or twice every trip it was unusual, but I generally shielded the scope as I fell.

The only time it moved was when I slipped on a greasy rock while crossing a dry cascade and started sliding down it. Not sure where things would end, I used the rifle and mainly the scope, held above me in both hands, as a brake against the rocks - and they pulled me up within about three yards.

The poor old scope was a bit scraped and it did knock the zero out - but only two MoA!

Sorry, I know I've told that story here before but when things and people function as they should, they don't leave much to dine out on.

While I have definite resolve about modern scopes with constantly centred reticles, the main danger from a whack such as you mention, could well be that it might move or twist the mounts or bend a one-inch, unrailed alloy scope. I'm surprised that the old Redfield extension mounts I used with the Kahles didn't move at other times.

I did have one scope that moved all of the 12 inches you mentioned, when I slipped over in mud and it came down against a soft bank.

It was a big image-movement scope and those big objectives add a lot to the risk, esp. when wrenching against close-together mounts such as now favored on tactical rifles.

If I had my druthers I'd use one of my old Bausch & Lomb scopes held down by the 'cart spring' of their daisy-wheel Custom mounts, so that if the scope got knocked it might bounce back into place. I know some of their later scopes were alloy and may get gouged by the cones in the case of a whack from above - but at least you might be able to turn the barrel around to restore zero.

With the exception of squirrel hunting, I use only iron sights. That said, I have had one instance where something moved, and moved a lot - more than 12" at 100 yds. Nothing is infallible, and not all irons are equal.

I have irons and have shot some with it, but I consider a aimpiont h2 as a lightweigth backup for a upcoming Russia hunt.

Even though my eyes are not young anymore I find that receiver sights work fine with me at my ranges. I killed my last 4 brown bean bears with r-sights and that's all I plink with anymore, we plink with 35cal and up here!

I have seen scopes fail and I seen iron sites get knock about come loose and fall off or other wise get out of adjustment.

Drop your iron sighted rifle onto the rocks and have land just right the front sight it can break or get bent or move side wise.

I seen whole rifles fail broke firing pin, lost bolts, triggers come apart, ejectors and extractors break fall out ect.

Pick the best you have make sure it is in top shape before you leave but stuff does happen.

If one can I like having a whole spare rifle available. But on a lot of back packing trips that is not a option.

But on most other trips having a spare rifle in the group is a good idea.

I most likely would take light weight scope in mounts all ready to go.

One can do a lot a of good work with a fixed 2 power scope.

No doubt there are circumstances that make irons fail, mostly poor installition..My irons have been the Talley QD on the Talley scope bases..The front sight is the NECG partridge gold faces post, and its tough and all but impossible to break or bend. Some of my older guns have barrel shallow V sights, One standing and two down..I never use the two down and sight the one standing an inch or two high at 100 yards. In some cases I cut the one standing off and use the flip up if it interfears with by peep sight picture..I also have and extra scope that's sighted in for that rifle if I am going to Africa or such places far from home or a gunsmith..Better safe than sorry and its something everyone should consider..The extra rifle is never wrong if you can do it..Its a good question and one I have put a lot of thought into with each of my rifles..

Every hunting rifle should have some kind of a iron sight for backup IMO..

Its not unusual for me to hunt with the iron sights and have a scope as a backup btw, An option often over looked in this generation..

I use irons inside of 50 yds and a scope for everything else. Scopes rarely fail, but do. I take an extra and check regularly.

I prefer scopes and switched to using suppressors which make irons impractical.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
If one thinks a scope can take a lick, sight in your gun very carefully then wack it with the palm of your hand and shoot a group..Your zero will move from 3 to 12 inches almost every time and no matter how well its mounted..Don't take my word for it, try and then be honest with yourself and others...

What a load of sh#t, cheap scopes and mounts yes but I've never known quality scopes and mounts do this. I had a bad fall in the alps and landed on top of my rifle and the scope was slightly dented I shot my chamois with no problems the zero was still okay when we checked it after the hunt (Schmidt and bender PM2), I hunt deer 2 or 3 times a week here in the UK my scopes takes a lot of abuse and they have never lost their zero yet, on my 6XC I have not had to adjust the scope for loss of zero in 3 years now.

My scope gets plenty of abuse riding on top of my 6lb 416 ruger. Whacking it in my hand (did I just say that?!) isn’t gonna be more abusive.

Shooting iron sights whilst hunting is something out of the dark ages. Young hunters do not know how to use them and do not want them. I do put iron sights on most of the customs I build, but they are all for old guys who just want them for looks; not one of them ever uses them.
Scopes are very durable; it depends on the type of hunt, and hunter, whether he wants icons or not.

I guess I'm still in the dark ages then. Haven't shot anything but squirrels with a scope since I was a little kid.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
... Scopes are very durable ...

...but not durable enough IMHO. A contributor ye wot of wrecked so many from a famous maker they cobbled up a reticle-movement model for him (probably from pre-'64 bits), which then went on to last 10 times longer than its predecessors and still works on a lesser rifle.

No, he has not betrayed their confidence, I infer it from their own words, which I will explain to anyone who wants to PM me.

How many have packed a scoped rifle daily in a saddle scabbard on a horse, how many in a pickup in rough country for months on end..If so then you had better check the zero weekly at least...but to each his own, no skin off my a$$ as to the nay sayers! I wouldn't own a rifle without backup irons, but Im an old dude and learned to shoot irons from my early youth..Still like them and up to 150 yards prefer them to a scope on anything except for rock chucks in the Snake River Canyon..I can shoot better off hand groups with irons than I can with any scope, my wiggle isn't magnified, and Ive won a ton of cash on that bet..Its still open for betting.

quote:

but Im an old dude and learned to shoot irons from my early youth..Still like them and up to 150 yards prefer them to a scope

For those of us that were not born with wonderful eye sight.

Irons are inferior to scopes. Scopes are the only practical options for those of us with poorer eye sight.

If I am hunting with a rifle that has irons they go along if not it is scope. only.

I have taken the irons off most of my rifles.

With my eyes I can't focus the front sight on a rifle. I can with my pistols though.

Absolutly, if eyesight is a problem and cannot be corrected with glasses, the scope is the only way to go..

I see a set of irons as adding nothing bad to a rifle, they weigh nothing, are not in the way, work well in the rain and are as useful on a 222 as they are on a buffalo in the bush..They are there and some of you may never use them but when you need them, they certainly come in handy such as in the outback, African bush or the Brooks range a long way from civilization..but that choice is yours for sure.

CumBrian,
Its not bull shit. its a conversation and a good question.