quote:

O
contrary to popular opinion bear spray does work well when used properly-not always but most times.

"Problem" bears are bears that have been accustomed to humans and realize that we have tasty calorie rich food in camp. Anything that would discourage them is a good idea.

calgarychef1 is on to an important distinction here. "Problem bears" as he is defining them the curious bears that come around camp to steel your food pack need to be dealt with in a far different way than a charging bear that has pined his ears back and wants to kill you.
Bear spray is a good deterrent for the curious bear who wants to steal from you. (I even prefer just throwing rocks at them. It's cheaper and I don't have to carry them in my back.)
But always remember a curious bear who wants to steal from you is not the same as a dangerous bear who wants to kill you. The killing bear is more than tough enough to charge through any pepper spray. If you don't believe me read Akshooters testimony on how tough they can be... http://forums.accuratereloadin...301016321#6301016321

Keep in mind that this thread has somehow gone from Vermont black bears to Alaskan coastal brown bears.

Thats kind of like comparing Shania Twain to Hulk Hogan.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Keep in mind that this thread has somehow gone from Vermont black bears to Alaskan coastal brown bears.

Thats kind of like comparing Shania Twain to Hulk Hogan.

Akshooter you are so 1995.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Keep in mind that this thread has somehow gone from Vermont black bears to Alaskan coastal brown bears.

Thats kind of like comparing Shania Twain to Hulk Hogan.

I still would NOT want to have to rely on a 9mm in a true emergency, even for a black bear. My son has a friend who recently got back from a year in Iraq. He said that 9mms are popguns and they had to shoot insurgents too many times when using 9mms before they'd go down. He said the only reliable way to drop them with a small gun was to shoot them in the thigh or pelvis, but chest hits would just have them keep on shooting back.

Now we've gone from black bears to Iraq?

DLS you make a good point, Your sons friend just like j-po only had a 9mm. So he used it. He made do with the only thing he had.

Ask your sons friend would he rather had nothing at all? Ask him would he rather have had bear spray?

I would say your sons friend had only one option for a sidearm and he took what he could get and this is exactly the way the original question was asked.

You seem to think that I am a big proponent of a 9mm for bear protection. I am when that is the "only option", but I have three 9mm's and I have never carried one in the field with the idea that I was going to use it for bear protection. I have three .44 mags and a .454 for that.

I understand that the original question was asked because J-Po did'nt want to buy a big revolver nor did he want to carry a long arm.

Weather the 9mm is underpowered or not by haveing it, he will be far better off than everyone else on the trail with nothing at all.

He will also be better off than anyone with bear spray.

Lastly he will be better off than your sons friend because unlike Iraqi insurgents black bears don't have AK-47's.

AK I have to agree with you. My son's buddy was talking about what a POS the 9mm caliber is for shooting people, and I figure that if it isn't good enough to kill a 130 pound muslim insurgent, it sure as hell isn't enough to kill a 250 pound pissed off bear which is much, much tougher. His favored weapon for close quarters combat was a silenced UMP-4 submachine gun that fired the 45acp round. He said that at the distances they were using it, inside houses, it was the best weapon imaginable.

Now, back to bears. I think the single most important thing a fellow can carry wehn in bear country is a healthy dose of common sense and keen powers of observation. Those things alone will protect you in about 99% of circumstances, by avoiding situations where trouble is more likely. If all else fails, then I'm a proponent of a gun, A VERY BIG GUN!

Originally posted by DLS

quote:

Now, back to bears. I think the single most important thing a fellow can carry wehn in bear country is a healthy dose of common sense and keen powers of observation. Those things alone will protect you in about 99% of circumstances, by avoiding situations where trouble is more likely. If all else fails, then I'm a proponent of a gun, A VERY BIG GUN!

DLS
I agree with everything you say here, It all makes good since.

I am expirianced with just the kind of situations we are talking about here. Lets say very expirianced.

Here is why I have I have taken the position that I have on this.

Originally posted by J-Po

"Which is a better choice for problem bears if one did not have a 44mag or casull or was not able to carry a rifle/shotgun? Opinions? Experiences?"

I have to first say I'm distressed that I have to agree with DaMan... And ask the same question... Why are you afraid of black bears?

I've encountered Black bears in the woods all of about a dozen times.

it probably helps that we have one that lives in our semi-rural neighborhood.

In most cases the bear was either oblivious or ambivelent to my presence. in the cases where the bear did show it noticed me it either continued on it's way after giving me a good long nearsighted look or it left the area in full afterburner.

Only once did a bear look at me, sniffed the air and started in my direction... I charged... and the bear changed it's mind
and reverted to "I think I wanna be somewhere else... very, very fast..."

In that instance it was the only time I didn't have a firearm if the bear hadn't run faster than I could I would have carried that change home... I was "All In" from the time I took the first step.

Most of my bear encounters have been in late july
when the black raspberries are just tapering off and the blackberries are really getting going and the "discussions" with the bear have been who has the rights to those berries....

I really like blackberries....



but I can fit a bear into my diet if he wants to make an issue of it.

and if the neighborhood bear makes himself too much of a problem I'm sure I can make room in my freezer for him....


AD

quote:

In that instance it was the only time I didn't have a firearm

AD
I have to say that I'm trying to wrap my brain around your post.

I agree the typical bear encounter dose not envolve an unprovoked attack by the bear and most of the time they are more affraid of you than vice versa.

From your comment I copied to the top of my post I take it that you carry a gun with some regularity. So what is it your affraid of, or is it that you know their is a chance of a need for the gun therfore you intend to be prepared when the time comes.

The typical drive to work in the morning dose not envolve a deadly accident but I bet you have insurance on your car.

The typical day at work for most police officers dose not include a shoot out with a crimanal but they carry there guns to work with them every day.

Most of us will never know what it's like to loose our house to fire but most of us pay how much to insure our homes.

I think you get the point. Everyday we asses our risk and act accordingly. Somedays we are under insured, kind of like having a 9mm in bear country but how often do we reccognize our shortcommings and say to ourselves ( I need to take care of that when I can or can afford to.)

A couple figures I think will help here. In north America more people are killed and mauled by black bears than by grizzlys. (I have heard this but it is unconfirmed so take it with a grain of salt.)

Problem bears are almost allways the ones most habituated to people. ( I have expireanced this personally many times in the past) eg bears in parks or trail systems.

A bear may not be the only danger encountered in the field by J-po and his 9mm may be perfect for that situation.

Finally it's really hard to tell someone that bears are not a threat when that person has already expireanced an unprovoked bear attack. This happend to me and the story envolved a moose kill wich I was making several trips to pack out.

A load of moose is heavy and the thought of leaving my rifle behind was very tempting.
I knew better and As I returned for a load I stopped to catch my breath about 100 feet from the kill just on the outside of the heavy brush where the bull went down when I heard the thump thump of the bear charging through the brush.

My .338 saved my life that day and yes I am glad I had it and not just a 9mm.

Given the choice that day between the 9mm or nothing, what the hell it might have turned him. Given the choice that day between bear spray and nothing I would take that as well.

Of course this incedent was a grizzly but I can tell you that my closest call although not unprovoked was with a black bear that charged me after my client had shot him and since I was closer and directly down hill from him I took the charge. That bear took a 300 gr. bullet from my .375 about ten feet in front of my barrel and it was about ten feet behind me when he came to a stop.

AKshooter, after reading all of this, I DO agree with you. The point I was making is that a 9mm is very poor bear protection, and you know that too. Given the desire to not purchase or borrow a bigger gun, and take only a 9mm or bear spray, I agree with your views. If it were me and I were limited to only those two choices, I can't disagree with you.

I do think that bear spray is an effective deterrent in most close encounter situations, and for a truly determined bear that wants to kill or badly injure you, neither of the choices is very good at all.

IT IS because of the behavior of bears "Habituated to people" that I often carry, but when I do it isn't a 9mm... it's a Colt in 10mm.

The bears I meet berry picking or hunting have other buisness it's the "garbage pail commando's" that I am perpetually prepared to remove.


Since I live in pennslvania the bears are all Black bears,
frankly I've only ever seen a brown bears in Zoos or the stuffed one in Cabela's

I am a firm believer in the basic perversity of the universe.

This manifests itself in various predictable ways, but typically:
Whatever you are actually prepared for will never happen,

Your lottery numbers will come up the one week you don't buy a ticket.

There will be oncomming traffic when you finally
reach the passing zone after being stuck behind
some blue-haired old lady for 15miles, etc...

You will REALLY NEED a firearm the one time you leave it in your other jacket pocket (which is why I didn't have it the day the bear started thinking thoughts I didn't approve of)

But that bear was NOT "my" neighborhood bear which is
reasonably well behaved, and he will stay outside my freezer as long as he remains "well behaved".

Another neighborhood bear back about 10 years ago
killed and ate one of the neighbor's Labrador retrievers...
I hope he enjoyed it as it was his last meal...
The dog's owner was more than a little ticked off
and practiced some necissary "animal control" as there had been previous complaints about that bear and the official animal control was less than effective.
they trapped and relocated the animal, it took him three weeks to walk back from wherever they moved him to...


AD

Apocryphal Alaskan Guide story:

Hunter is showing the guide his "bear defense gun." It's a K Frame .357 magnum.

"You need to file the front sight on that handgun down smooth." says the guide.

"Why's that?"

"So it won't catch when you shove it up your back-side and pull the trigger to kill yourself before the bear kills you. That pistol is NOT going to take care of a bear."

The Casul and the Smith 500 were developed because the 44 mag. wasn't quite getting the job done.

REI sells "bear bells" you fasten to your gear so you make noise in the woods and let the bear know you're coming.

But then that tells the cougars you're coming, and a cougar will hunt you down.

The only "bear spray" that I'm inclined to believe in is the canister that looks like a small fire extinguisher, and discharges the full load in one burst.

-- And even then I want at least a 44 mag for backup.

quote:

Originally posted by J-Po:
Planning to hunt and camp quite a bit in the green mountains of VT in national forest/wilderness ares this year. For camping, I have a glock 17 9mm and bear spray. Which is a better choice for problem bears if one did not have a 44mag or casull or was not able to carry a rifle/shotgun? Opinions? Experiences?

J-Po we all have forgotten to tell you the easiest way to stay safe while camping in bear country. All you need to do is find a friend to come with you who is out of shape, slow, has a bad leg, he must be willing to camp in a separate area from you, keep all of the food in his tent, and do all of the cooking. Then YOU should have no trouble.

Originally posted by MN Hunter

quote:

J-Po we all have forgotten to tell you the easiest way to stay safe while camping in bear country. All you need to do is find a friend to come with you who is out of shape, slow, has a bad leg, he must be willing to camp in a separate area from you, keep all of the food in his tent, and do all of the cooking. Then YOU should have no trouble.

So thats what you've been doing to me all these years.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Originally posted by MN Hunter

quote:

J-Po we all have forgotten to tell you the easiest way to stay safe while camping in bear country. All you need to do is find a friend to come with you who is out of shape, slow, has a bad leg, he must be willing to camp in a separate area from you, keep all of the food in his tent, and do all of the cooking. Then YOU should have no trouble.

So thats what you've been doing to me all these years.

Dear Akshooter please call me if and when you get a bad leg. I have a proposal for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Keep in mind that this thread has somehow gone from Vermont black bears to Alaskan coastal brown bears.

Lions and tigers and small black bears..... oh, my!

J-Po,

Make room in your budget for a book by Stephen Herrera or Herrero or something close. It's about bear attacks, but isn't one of those blood and gore books. Well, some of the stories might keep you up at night, but each one has a point, and he uses the stories specifically as examples. He goes into great detail the reasons that bears attack, meathods to avoid confrontations, and meathods to react with. He even has a chapter on firearms, including caliber effectiveness and where to aim. I think that reading this book will do you more good than a firearm or spray. You have some misconceptions about black bears. For example, he cites a study wherein cubs were taken from the sows and worked with before re-releasing. Out of something like 100 blackies, EVERY sow ran like hell while they captured the cub, while EVERY grizzly sow had to be subdued as well as the cub. Simply put, blackies are not aggresive like gizzlys. Now on the other hand, if a black bear attacks you, it will be for a meal, so you must fight for your life. This is a very small bit--read his book and you will be light years ahead of simply arming yourself.

That being said, carry the 9mm. I had 2 uncles and their friend murdered in the WY woods from some crazy. This is a much more likely scenario than a fatal bear attack in VT. And the 9mm will serve the dual purpose of bear defense in that unlikely event.

quote:

Originally posted by mikea:
J-Po,

Make room in your budget for a book by Stephen Herrera or Herrero or something close. It's about bear attacks, but isn't one of those blood and gore books. Well, some of the stories might keep you up at night, but each one has a point, and he uses the stories specifically as examples. He goes into great detail the reasons that bears attack, meathods to avoid confrontations, and meathods to react with. He even has a chapter on firearms, including caliber effectiveness and where to aim. I think that reading this book will do you more good than a firearm or spray. You have some misconceptions about black bears. For example, he cites a study wherein cubs were taken from the sows and worked with before re-releasing. Out of something like 100 blackies, EVERY sow ran like hell while they captured the cub, while EVERY grizzly sow had to be subdued as well as the cub. Simply put, blackies are not aggresive like gizzlys. Now on the other hand, if a black bear attacks you, it will be for a meal, so you must fight for your life. This is a very small bit--read his book and you will be light years ahead of simply arming yourself.

That being said, carry the 9mm. I had 2 uncles and their friend murdered in the WY woods from some crazy. This is a much more likely scenario than a fatal bear attack in VT. And the 9mm will serve the dual purpose of bear defense in that unlikely event.

Excellent post, mikea!

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:

quote:

Originally posted by mikea:

Excellent post, mikea!

arent you going to spell check him,damanda??

Dr. Stephen Herrero University of Calgary.

Keep a clean camp and you shouldn't need either. I've camped in black bear country all my life and haven't had problems with bears that weren't my own fault, and then they were easily chased off. Carrying a gun for camping in black bear country borders on paranoia. You can chase off black bears with yelling and a stick.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I'm curious, once having given up your US citizenship then moved back can you still own firearms here?

Rich

Who said I gave up my U.S.citizenship, Rich? As I did not renounce my U.S. citizenship, I did not lose it. I checked that out with the U.S. Embassy in Calgary and they confirmed it, in writing.

quote:

Originally posted :
Alberta Canuck's experience with the RCMP WAS pretty typical of their attitude in western Canada YEARS AGO, this is NOT the case now and carrying illegally here is a VERY bad practice.

Sorry to be so late responding to this post, but think I should. Things in B.C. are FAR different than in Alberta. Always were. B.C. is probably the most "English" place on earth outside England itself, or maybe Christchurch, New Zealand.

Even as far back as in the 60's most of us wanted nothing to do with hunting in B.C., IF we lived in one of the other western provinces because of the hassles even then regarding our rifles and other firearms when we visited B.C. with them along. Many of us seldom fished there either for the same reason.

My nephew is the commanding officer of an RCMP detachment in Alberta, and he tells me things have not changed very substantially there. Sure, you would be stupid to violate the legal technicalities re handguns in a place like Calgary or Edmonton, or to blatently scorn them anywhere. Defense against bears won't fly very high or long in ANY city of over 1,000,000 metropolitan area population! And arrogance merits its own just rewards from everyone everywhere.

But, in the rural regions of Canada, the way the RCMP gets its job done is to work with the local population, not against it. The farther into the north one goes, the more true that is. A small detachment in the north would be incapable of keeping their assigned thousands of square miles peaceful, if they didn't know when to look the other way and when not to.

That's one reason new constables are generally assigned to small detchments on their first few postings afer graduating from the academy in Regina. After a couple of years of carefully observed learning how to work WITH the population, they can then be trusted to use their heads in the more urban environmants as well and may be successful in transferring to the more urban detachments.

That's one of the major reasons the "Mounties" are one of the most successful and respected policing forces in the world.

Where are you from, OP? Just curious, because bear defense, while perhaps never a 100% silly concern, would be so low on my worry list in VT that it'd probably rank somewhere between remembering to get a haircut before leaving and which flavor lipbalm to tote along. Not trying to make fun, but dude, VT ain't AK...

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted :
Alberta Canuck's experience with the RCMP WAS pretty typical of their attitude in western Canada YEARS AGO, this is NOT the case now and carrying illegally here is a VERY bad practice.

Sorry to be so late responding to this post, but think I should. Things in B.C. are FAR different than in Alberta. Always were. B.C. is probably the most "English" place on earth outside England itself, or maybe Christchurch, New Zealand.

Even as far back as in the 60's most of us wanted nothing to do with hunting in B.C., IF we lived in one of the other western provinces because of the hassles even then regarding our rifles and other firearms when we visited B.C. with them along. Many of us seldom fished there either for the same reason.

My nephew is the commanding officer of an RCMP detachment in Alberta, and he tells me things have not changed very substantially there. Sure, you would be stupid to violate the legal technicalities re handguns in a place like Calgary or Edmonton, or to blatently scorn them anywhere. Defense against bears won't fly very high or long in ANY city of over 1,000,000 metropolitan area population! And arrogance merits its own just rewards from everyone everywhere.

But, in the rural regions of Canada, the way the RCMP gets its job done is to work with the local population, not against it. The farther into the north one goes, the more true that is. A small detachment in the north would be incapable of keeping their assigned thousands of square miles peaceful, if they didn't know when to look the other way and when not to.

That's one reason new constables are generally assigned to small detchments on their first few postings afer graduating from the academy in Regina. After a couple of years of carefully observed learning how to work WITH the population, they can then be trusted to use their heads in the more urban environmants as well and may be successful in transferring to the more urban detachments.

That's one of the major reasons the "Mounties" are one of the most successful and respected policing forces in the world.

Well, anecdotes and reminiscing about the '60s are great, but, I worked for the RCMP, my uncle was a member in Alberta, my father also worked for them, my mother was a highly placed "civilian" employee as was a cousin here until very recently and I worked, in Alberta, for the Forest Service. I was last there this past September.

I would not consider BC to be particularly "English" and things are not that different here from Alberta. Several of my other family members have worked there and our family pioneered there in the 1880s, not long after we settled here in BC.

I was born in rural region of Canada, spent my working life beside RCMP officers and many of them were and are personal friends and shooting buddies. I still spend a lot of time in the most remote regions of western Canada and I would NEVER carry illegally.

It was in a rural area of Alberta, that a lunatic shot four young Mounties a few years ago, the rural regions of Canada have a LOT of murders, etc. and the RCMP today is NOT likely to ...look the other way..., where an illegal gun situation of ANY kind is concerned.

There is a flood of Albertans hunting and, especially, fishing here in BC and we always saw lots of them where I was born and raised. In fact, getting a motel room is difficult along Highway 16 due to Albertans traveling to "Rupert" to fish for Halibut and Salmon.

I would not worry about carrying my .44 IF I were accompanied by a relative or friend who is a serving member of the RCMP, as they have their own "code" concerning other coppers...but, doing this on your own is a foolish practice, IMO and not one I would ever consider.

Things have changed HUGELY in Canada in the past 25 years and are getting worse in respect of gun owner's rights, not, "better". No offence intended here, but, caution is really called for.

Well this went off the rails fast- as I thought it would.


I think Jackfish said it best of all "Carrying a gun for camping in black bear country borders on paranoia"

the chef

Well, I am not totally sure about that as we have had a number of attacks on adult and juvenile humans here in BC in recent years. So, IMHO, some genuine reason to have a bear gun handy does exist.

You might remember Slave Lake Campground in 1993, when that little boy was killed and partially eaten by a juvenile Black Bear. I was there two weeks later and spoke with some of my collegues in Alberta Fish and Wildlife about this....pretty horrible scene.

My honest feeling is that I will carry IF I feel that a problem exists, as in the East Kootenay during hunting season and also the northern BC hunting areas. I don't usually when fishing mountain lakes, or when simply exploring a wilderness area in summer and do not in winter. I DO when picking berries or fishing in "Redfish" spawning season.

Maybe I AM "paranoid", but, after 50+ years of bear encounters, I know what has worked for me and tend to err on the side of being protected. YMMV.

Just to a google search on bear attacks one will be surprized on the number of blk bear attacks. When a blk bear attacks it is more likely they want to eat you. Then to scare you off.

Iam sure the boy scout that was chomped in Wis a few years back would be gald to have a 9mm around.

The woman would had her child eaten in Tenn. would have been very glad to have a 9mm.


The fellow who had his wife eaten in Canada Would have been very glad to have a 9mm instead of having to leave his wife to be eaten while he went for help.

The women near Duluth Mn who was mauled while out walking her dog would of been gald to have a 9mm.

Jackfish I live in the same blk bear country you do and had to back down several bears over the years I was glad I was armed at the time. I have talk to several people who were followed by blk bears but managed to get inside or to their vehicle before any thing happen. I have had to chase bears off of deer kills and talk with several people that had the bow kills stolen from them by bears.

Normally one doesn't not have trouble with them but as are bear population is booming more and more troubles come about.

I think the thing that has'nt been mentioned yet and is probably the most important is confidence.

Not confidence in your weppon so much as confidence in yourself. I know from expiriance that a confrontation with a bear has rules and you have to do the right things.

If the bear "is" Agressive typicly they don't just attack. A bear will test the water with you to determine what you are and weather you pose a risk to him or your and easy meal or thirdly will you pose a threat to her cubs.

We have all heard the axium not to run from a bear, Truer words have never been spoken. When you run from that bear who is on the fence wich way he is going to deal with you, running sends him the BIG signle to chase you.

Although you don't want to get carried away with it you need to act ambivelant about him or even ever so slightly aggressive yourself. I don't mean chase after him I mean just stand your ground and don't even back down if you feel doing so will compromise your statis as the alpha male in this encounter.

The point I'm making with this is that your gun be it a a 9mm or a 460 weatherby will give you the confidence to do the right thing in the first place. You may know when it comes down to it that you would be better of with a big bore BUTTTT you also know that when he attacks, you can get a couple shots off before your laying on you back with your foot in his mouth. You also know that your close and and a good solid brain shot will be totally doable at that range and with the high cap 9mm you can keep pulling the trigger untill that perfect shot comes along.

Bottom line if you go into it feeling like your weppon can do the job then it's real job may well be saving the lives of both you and the bear.

Very good post, totally agree and having "been there" with curious Grizzlies quite a few times, this mirrors what I have seen.

Well, Dewey, I'll let you have it your way...as you will keep on 'til you think you do, and I have other things to do.

My nephew was one of the folks who investigated the killing of those four young mounties in Alberta, so I do know a bit more about that instance than you may think.

It was not a rural killing in the sense of being out in a "bush" area, which is the area I was discussing "carrying" in. It was on a farm, but in a well-populated area. And, they were targeted by a sniper lying in a "hide" with his RIFLE some distance from them at a suspected marijuana "grow".

I have fished the Rupert area myself, though I actually went primarily to the conjunction of the Skeena and the Copper rivers to fish for Steelhead, then on to both Kitimat and Rupert.
I quit going into northen B.C. for salmon and steelhead when it became apparent just how mercury contaminated some of the watershed was (is?), thus limiting the safe edibility of the fish.

And, I am not talking about the 60's. My wife (a Bruderheim girl) didn't push me to move us to Scottsdale, Arizona, until in the 1980's. We owned a home in Scottsdale which, after she visited a few times in the winter for several weeks at a time, convinced her that -40 wasn't near as nice in the winter as +70-odd F, so we moved.

I am not advocating open carry anywhere, nor am I suggesting any form of carry in any of the urban municipality areas. What I am suggesting is that if a person is carrying a concealed firearm in isolated "bear" country, like that north of the Peace or even west of the Little
Smokey, he likely won't have any trouble if he behaves responsibliy with it, and is known by the local GRC to be a "good" person. Most likely it will be one of those "don't ask. don't tell" situations.

As to the "Albertan's" flooding B.C.... Are you quite certain you're referring to Albertans? Maybe you get a lot of the displaced eastern Canadians who have come to Alberta for the oil jobs, but have Alberta license plates now?

Anyway, the hunting is as good, if not better, in Alberta, and none of us ever figured it was worth having to stop and get a B.C. "permit" for our rifles there, back when we didn't even need an FAC to buy them through the mail in Alberta.

But, as I said, have it your own way. You live how you want to live, and I'll live the way I (and many of my friends) want to,

I mean you no disrespect, it is just that neither of us is going to convince the other, so I for one am going to let it slide.

Best wishes,

AC

Another ? for the Canadians, if a pistol is not legal in the woods why does every sporting goods store in Canada sell holsters?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alberta Canuck

Anyway, the hunting is as good, if not better, in Alberta, and none of us ever figured it was worth having to stop and get a B.C. "permit" for our rifles there, back when we didn't even need an FAC to buy them through the mail in Alberta.

I get your point, but, I do not consider it a wise practice to advocate illegal actions here on AR or any other forum. As I said, things have changed here very profoundly during the past 25 years and carrying a handgun without the ATC-employment that one requires, or, being an American fisherman and doing so, is just asking for it. You, may feel "safe" doing so, but, I would not, based on what I have seen in the past few years here.

The hunting is BETTER in Alberta????? REALLY????

Goats? Cali. Bighorns? Stone's Sheep? Dall's Sheep? About 1000 G-Bears compared to BC's 20 times that number? Caribou? A DRAW system for even residents? A "Hunter Host" programme that allows some to bring in foreigners when locals have no tags?

Yup, you have it your way, most of my Albertan friends come HERE to hunt and fish, every opportunity they have.

quote:

Originally posted by MT Gianni:
Another ? for the Canadians, if a pistol is not legal in the woods why does every sporting goods store in Canada sell holsters?

Why not, retail operations exist to generate profits for the investors, holsters are not illegal and people want to buy them, so, they are sold here.

Handgun ownership and carry is very restricted here in Canada; it is a pita, but, it IS the LAW. Soooo, most people do not carry in contravention of said laws and those who do carry "concealed" are risking a criminal charge/conviction, a major penalty involving a serious fine and possible incarceration and, also, the probable confiscation and destruction of ALL of your guns.

Would you risk the latter, if you had a few dozen relatively "high end" rifles, such as minty P-64-70s, Mannlicher-Schoenauer, Dakota and Brnos, etc.? I won't and have no bloody intention of stupidly contravening a Canadian law, whether I agree with it, or not.

I have been stopped and thoroughly checked by RCMP roadblocks in remote and rural BC and Alberta and it was obvious to me, that, had I not had my paperwork, etc., all "tickety-boo", I would have been arrested, charged and probably lost my guns........

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

Jackfish I live in the same blk bear country you do and had to back down several bears over the years I was glad I was armed at the time. I have talk to several people who were followed by blk bears but managed to get inside or to their vehicle before any thing happen. I have had to chase bears off of deer kills and talk with several people that had the bow kills stolen from them by bears.

Normally one doesn't not have trouble with them but as are bear population is booming more and more troubles come about.

P-Dawg, just curious........ but when was the most recent fatal attack by a black bear in WI?!!!

I have spent a fair amount of time in bear country.

I hunted black bears in Griz bear country for 12 years.

I had several close encounters with Griz as well as black bears.

I have not had to shoot a Griz in self defense but I have come close with bears that were within 20 yards on several occasions.

As a side note black bears kill a lot more eople than griz....

I have shot a few black bears at under 15 yards...

I would not want to ue a 9mm, but if it was all I had then I would shoot for the brain...

Nothing wrong with carrying bear spray, but I would not want it to be my only option...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have shot a few black bears at under 15 yards...

Attacking you?!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2: As a side note black bears kill a lot more people than griz....

Where do deer and domestic dogs fall on that "people killed" scale?!!!!

A $200 18" Mossberg Maverick riot gun can save your life if you are in a bear situation. Less then the cost of a good sleeping bag.

No I was hunting black bear. Most of them never knew I was there.

Only one for sure knew I was there, I stumbled upon it durring a Spring snow storm.

We were both surpised...
One shot with a 450/400 double rifle at @ 8 yards calmed the situation...

Black bear are usually timid so if you wear a small bell, it will scare most of them away. For the few that are more aggressive, pepper spray is all you need. This is for black bear. If you see some grizz poop, get out of the area immediately. How can you tell if it is grizz poop? Easy. It has small bell and smells like pepper.