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Emergency signaling for solo backpac hunting: Spot 2, flare gun, sat. phone, etc.
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Picture of JBrown
posted
This is my first post on this backpacking forum, but I have spent quite a bit of time using the search feature and reading-up.

A brief history: I have done some backpacking, but always with a partner(s), and never done a backpack hunt. I have done quite a few solo day-hunts in the back-county, and some solo weekend hunts but camp was never far from help(roads, cell reception, etc).

Now I am really becoming interested in doing some backpack hunting as I have four weeks off over the next two months and I have a "new" wilderness area that I am real excited to hunt/explore. The hunts will have to be solo as my hunting partners can't get away from home due to work commitments and life in general.

If I was still a bachelor I would grab my pack and go. But here's the rub: I'm a single father with sole custody of my 17 month old daughter. I have three generations of family who will fight over who gets to watch my daughter while I'm gone. The problem is I have to make sure that I come back alive because I can't take a chance of leaving my daughter to be raised by my soon-to-be ex-wife(who suffers from mental disorders). California makes it very difficult for Grandparents to gain custody from a mentally ill parent.

The wilderness area I want to backpack into is pretty mild as these things go, and I plan to be prepared, but I would like to have something to fall back on if I were to get hurt or lost. I have looked at the Spot-2 tracking device and it seems to be the easy answer. The problem is that it has gotten very mixed reviews. Satellite phones seem to be a good alternative but they are also pretty expensive(and money is an issue at the moment). I have also wondered if a flare-gun, like those carried on boats, would be worthwhile as there are aircraft in the area from time to time.

Keeping my paternal responsibilities in mind I am beginning to feel that I am being selfish taking any unnecessary risks. But dang, I want to go hunting!

I am open to any advice.
.


.
BTW, I'm impressed with the quality of the membership here on the backpack-hunting forum.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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a flare is good - no doubt. For extremes I would go for a beacon - probably the best recue system (but not cheap)

Klaus
(who has 2 sons and knowing that problem well)


life is too short for not having the best equipment You could buy...
www.titanium-gunworks.de
 
Posts: 759 | Location: Germany | Registered: 30 March 2006Reply With Quote
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My opinion is to use a SPOT. Have used them up on the north side of the Brooks Range in Aug. with no problems, even in overcast/ rainy/foggy conditions. I have had people tell me they had a problem (again in the Brooks) with them when they were in a very narrow canyon doing archaeology work. We never had a problem and our hunting camp was in a valley that runs east/west. I think it's the way to go, just make sure you don't shut the new model OFF until the "MAIL SENT" symbol LED has quit blinking.
Just our experiences - good luck.
Bear in Fairbanks

P.S. Practice with it before you go on your trip and be sure you take an extra set of batteries.
B.I.F.


Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have.

Gun control means using two hands.

 
Posts: 1544 | Location: Fairbanks, Ak., USA | Registered: 16 March 2002Reply With Quote
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once you become a parent you really start to second guess taking unnessary risks. I have a spot (1st generation) and it works well. The trick is not to turn it on and off every time you want to send a message. The batteries last well and it isn't too hard to harry extras. I send a message every morning and evening and a couple times through the day to let my wife know I'm all right.

If something goes wrong they have a good idea where to start looking for you. and the very best thing about them is you can go home and see on google map exactly where you were when you sent the message. A great hunting tool!


I carry flares and a cell phone. The flares mostly to be able to signal to a partner that I might have been seperated from.


the chef
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by calgarychef1:
once you become a parent you really start to second guess taking unnessary risks.


+1,000!!!

Thanks for all the information so far.

I guess that Spot or Spot-2 may be the way to go. I know that the Spot-2 is smaller and lighter, but are their any advantages to going with the first generation unit(robustness, etc.)?"

Thanks again guys.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JBrown:

I guess that Spot or Spot-2 may be the way to go. I know that the Spot-2 is smaller and lighter, but are their any advantages to going with the first generation unit(robustness, etc.)?"


I've got both the Spot 1 and Spot 2.

No difference in robustness/reliability/performance. The Spot 2 is just a lot smaller and lighter.

BTW - Spot is also available with a unit that links with a GPS unit.

It's a lot more expensive than the Spot units alone. But you have both a GPS unit and your Spot satellite capabilities combined.
 
Posts: 49226 | Registered: 21 January 2001Reply With Quote
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If you're comatose, injured or otherwise incapacitated and can't activate a device that requires a "functional you" to activate or operate it, or the device doesn't work, or you lost it, no device will be of much use.

I suggest that any time you plan on going into the wilds, alone or not, you provide someone back home with information about where you are planning on going and when you are planning on returning. If you know where you will park your truck, so much the better.

If you haven't returned or checked in by the appointed time, that person should contact emergency services (usually the county sheriff).

You might also consider taking a piece of aluminum foil, placing it on the ground, and stepping on it. Then place it in your truck. This will help searchers sort out your tracks from everyone else's.

Those are the first things I make sure I do.

If I had a SPOT, I'd carry it. But I'm a strong believer in redundancy. So even if I had SPOT, I'd still carry an FRS with extra batteries (everyone knows that if I fail to appear, I'll call on channel 10 at the top and bottom of the hour, beginning 5 hours after the deadline I told my home contact I'd be back by).

I always carry a coghlin delux brass whistle and a powerful LED flashlight, and whatever I need to survive for 24 hours.

JFWIW.
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 10 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Nothing is better in an isolated emergency situation than a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB).

SPOT is a nice communication tool that also lets you call for help much as you would by dialing 911 from your cell phone but with the addition of providing your location automatically. SPOT emergency messages are handled through a private company, the GEOS Emergency Response Center which then must contact local help. Battery life is limited, especially if you use it for non-emergency communications. You can send an alert with SPOT and watch helplessly for hours as aircraft fly over your location oblivious to your situation.

But a PLB combines a satellite based alert that gives identifying info and GPS coordinates with a radio beacon that will alert any aircraft within several miles. PLB battery life is five years and once the PLB is activated it will transmit for a long time, typically over 24 hours. The PLB distress signals are handled by government and international agencies as part of a worldwide rescue network. SAR assets, like Coast Guard and military SAR units, receive notification through the COSPAS-SARSAT system. Meanwhile, the PLB's radio alert and continuous homing beacon provides an additional means of notification and serves to guide aircraft and SAR personnel right to your location.

This sums them up pretty well:
quote:

[SPOT is a SEND] SENDs are Satellite Emergency Notification Devices, a new category, and standards have not been finalized yet. SENDs use private satellites, and the distress signal is then relayed to a private call center, which alerts the appropriate authorities to who is in distress and where they are located. These satellites cover most, but not all of the planet. Requires a subscription to a private company for service.

PLBs are Personal Locator Beacons, which have set standards for signal, durability, ease of use, battery life, etc. The distress signal (406 MHz) from PLBs goes out to government satellites which cover virtually the entire planet. The satellites relay the signal to a network of ground stations and ultimately to the U.S. Mission Control Center (USMCC) in Suitland, Maryland. The USMCC processes the distress signal and alerts the appropriate authorities to who is in distress and where they are located. PLBs also transmit a secondary 121.5 MHz homing signal so that when a search party is in the vicinity it can pick up the signal and calculate the direction. Many newer PLBs also have a strobe light function that can be activated so that a party can be seen at night more easily. There are no subscription fees. Your tax dollars have already paid for this service.









.
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: North of the Columbia | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Thanks again guys!

Just when I was sold on the Spot-2 I looked into the PLBs one last time. I'm floored that the prices have come down so much. I was under the impression that they are $400+ but now I see that they are less than even the Spot-2 and one year subscription.

I think this is a discontinued model, but is shows have cheaply PLBs can be had. I believe the current model is only about $50 more.

I know the Spot-2 has more features, but I think the emergency locator feature is the only one that is really important to me.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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The one really big plus with the spot thingys...you can signal to wifey that you're all right. she'll let you hunt all you want if she only knows things are ok.

I'm not trying to pick sides here only telling you what has worked for me. I think the plb's are a better "last ditch" thing, however the spot has use throughout the hunt.
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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Do these things work in asia too? I might be doing some consulting in India, way off the beaten path for several days and was thinking about something small that can be used to send a few lines of text 4 or 5 times a day.


for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside
 
Posts: 7786 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark:
Do these things work in asia too? I might be doing some consulting in India, way off the beaten path for several days and was thinking about something small that can be used to send a few lines of text 4 or 5 times a day.


According to their coverage map most of Asia is covered(as is most of the world), but India is not covered.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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PLB's are the best solutino. I use an ACR brand SarLink. They cost about $350, and have no subscription fees. They last a very long time, and directly link you to S+R services if needed. This is the device used by professionals, not just granola types. No subscription fees and as reliabe as it comes.

Bill
 
Posts: 1090 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA | Registered: 19 March 2002Reply With Quote
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The problem with the personal locator beacons is that they are one trick ponies. They are good for calling the entire cavalry in for the rescue.....but nothing else.

If your car breaks down out in the boonies, are you going to press that button to call out search and rescue and emergency services? That might be both embarrassing and expensive in the case of a non-emergent situation.

With the Spot, you can activate the non-emergent "help needed" feature. This message goes out to your friends/relatives (or whoever you choose) and they can decide to come to your rescue or contact somebody who can.

With the Spot you can also send "I'm OK" messages to the folks you designated to receive this message. They can also follow your progress in real time on Google Earth.

As B.L. O'Connor pointed out, if you are comatose (or can't activate the emergency signal for any reason) you're S.O.L. with any device. But if you have a Spot sending automatic updates, your designated recipients will see that you're not moving ........ and it should indicate that something is wrong.

So I would pick the Spot over a PLB in areas where Spot has coverage.

Spot coverage map.........

 
Posts: 49226 | Registered: 21 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Thanks again guys. You all bring up a lot of great points. Maybe too many good points, as it is making it hard to decide.

I think I will go with the PLB as its lifetime cost is about equal to the cost of the Spot and one year or service. Assuming a 6 year service life the PLB would be +-$250 and the Spot would be $750.

No doubt the spot has some great non-emergency features. I'm sure it I go with the PLB their will come a time that I would really like to have the Spot, such as having to hike out and drive half way back home just to call and say, "I got a monster and I am going to have to spend an extra day up here packing him out...."

Again, thanks alot. This is a really great forum.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Don't forget to make up and take a little survival kit and be sure to include a small signal mirror and a couple of yards of international orange parachute fabric. Those additions will cost very little, take up almost no space, and will last indefinitely.




.
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: North of the Columbia | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With Quote
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I don't know if this is viable anymore, but you can also google up your cell phone model and see if there is an external high-gain antenna you can get for it. It may or may not help where you go but there are cell towers in the damndest places nowadays.


for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside
 
Posts: 7786 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000Reply With Quote
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Modern PLB's have the ability to send additionzal messages similar to the "I"m OK" or "non-emergency help needed" messages of the Spot. This is an added subscription feature similar to the Spot device in cost.

I personally have no use for these features. They consume battery power and are still only 1-way communication. If you really think you will be using one to summon help packing out an elk, etc., then you probably can get cell service or aren't that far out in the wilderness to begin with. And for those thinking they will be unconscious or unable to activate a PLB, well, when things are that bad you are probably beyond help anyway. Do you really think the lack of an "I'm ok" message is going to bring out the calvary in such a short period of time that you will be saved? Wishful thining, at best, and precisely what is causing so much trouble with these devices. Someone misses a check in (I'm ok) and search and rescue is called out to find a perfectly healthy hunter /hiker/ etc. who just didn't check in properly. S+R is increasingly wasting their time and resources on these situations.

We are fortunate to have PLB's and Spot devices for convenience and an added level of safety. None of these devices take the place of some common sense and woodsmanship. More and more people seem to try to buy technology so they don't have to be prepared otherwise, be it physically, mentally, or with the proper skill set for their endeavor. Pure foolishness.

I hope to never use my PLB. I only carry it on extended trips (mostly solo) into the wilderness of WY, AK or ?. I put it in my pack and forget about it during the hunt, enjoying the trip disconnected from society. If I do something incredibly stupid to hurt myself, or some really unfortunate accident occurs, then I can summon profesional help. Chances are I will be in such dire straights before I ever activate this type of device that the end result will be a body retrieval. At least people will know what happened. Get a grip and enjoy the expeience of being alone and solely dependant upon your own wits and resources while out in the wild. It is an exhilarating expereince.

Bill

My comments are not directed at any poster on this thread, just a general observation about the motivations behind these devices.
 
Posts: 1090 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA | Registered: 19 March 2002Reply With Quote
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buy an Iridium 9500, the older generation Motorola and a brand new battery.

They are availabe on flea-bay for $200-300 and were very robust and reliable.

If money is tight, don;t buy a sim card, they will work for 911 use without activation or a service plan.

If you choose, at any time you can buy a pre-paid card for $100 or so for 30 minutes and three months, which will take you through hunting season and allow you to check on your family.
 
Posts: 344 | Registered: 28 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Satellite phones have their place, but they have several limitation. First and foremost is weight, because after all we are talking backpacking on this forum. They are also not nearly as realiable as a PLB. I can't count the number of times I've lost sat phone signal or was unable to make any connection. They keep inproving, but when the chips are down you want as close to 100% reliable as possible. You would also need to carry a separate GPS in order to send your location, and the ability to communicate such clearly, which is no small task if seriously injured. Battery life is another huge issue. They are obviously the best way for two way communication, however, so choose what is really important in your situation. (Now if we could only predict exactly what we need in a future emergency, then it would be a perfect world!)

Bill
 
Posts: 1090 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA | Registered: 19 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I haven't used the electronic units mentioned here. Just older EPIRBs from boats and ships. I did want to mention another good light weight item to carry is a whistle. Along with giving someone a plan of where you'll be and when you should be back a whistle can help someone find you. A whistle will last longer than you can yell and if someone is looking for you GPS or electronic locators may get them with in 50 to 100 yards. You can sit under a tree and breath through the whistle and make noise that will easily draw attention from a couple of hundred yards with out expending effort.


A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.
 
Posts: 1254 | Location: Norfolk, Va | Registered: 27 December 2003Reply With Quote
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tell your check in person that you have a spare key to the truck and where it is located, fender well etc. Take a change of worn clothes and leave them in the truck this way S&R can open your truck and the dogs can get a good scent from your worn clothes. Do this in addition to leaving a foil cast of your boot inside the truck as well.


"I will not raise taxes on those making more than 250k"
 
Posts: 133 | Registered: 25 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael b Freeman:
tell your check in person that you have a spare key to the truck and where it is located, fender well etc. Take a change of worn clothes and leave them in the truck this way S&R can open your truck and the dogs can get a good scent from your worn clothes. Do this in addition to leaving a foil cast of your boot inside the truck as well.


+1

The more of your body odor on the clothes, the better.
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 10 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by calgarychef1:
once you become a parent you really start to second guess taking unnessary risks.

the chef


Boy, that's the truth. That's why, when I went on a long safari to Botswaa when my first child, my son, was 18 months old, I bought a lot of life insurance. I figured what the heck, since I was hunting lion, leopard and a couple buffalo, getting him set for life if I bought the farm was the right thing to do. Been paying for that damned life insurance policy ever since!
 
Posts: 3948 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Even if you go with an "electronic rescue device" I would still have some "flares".

I bought a bunch several years ago that were in a plastic "tube" that you would unscrew the bottom, hold it over your head,and pull a string that would launce the flare "way high".

They were very light weight.

Look for them at backacking storesw and boating stores.

The H&K Flare pistols work great as well, but they are spendy and it is hard to find the flares.

Save the flares till the rescue people get close and then shoot the flare...


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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I used a Spot on my Mountain Goat hunt on Kodiak, AK in 2009. It was great! I programed the OK button to send out a message each morning and evening so my wife and kids could look on google maps and see where I sent the message from. The need help button was programed to let the air taxi know we were ready to be picked up. And the 911 button had all of the critical info for me and my brother as far as blood types and medicine allergies. If the message went out the first responders knew some good info about us before they arrived.

It was light weight and worked perfect. Only draw back is you have to trust it. There is no two way contact. This worked perfect for me. I wanted to not have two way and hear about issues at home or work via a sat phone.

The week I got home from my hunt the Spot 2 came out. I only owned my Spot 1 for about 3 weeks. I put electrical tape over the 911 button to make sure it did not get pushed. The Spot 2 has a guarded switch cover on the 911 button. I would get a Spot 2 if I was buying one today.
 
Posts: 583 | Location: Mesa, AZ | Registered: 08 May 2006Reply With Quote
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458Lottfan:
That's a darn good idea. Never thot about that. Gonna have to put that into my SPOT 911 msg. IMHO, these things do work.
Bear in Fairbanks


Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have.

Gun control means using two hands.

 
Posts: 1544 | Location: Fairbanks, Ak., USA | Registered: 16 March 2002Reply With Quote
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There's a satellite device now that "checks in" for you. Sends message to email addys -- several if you list them. (I suppose this is the Spot 2. My nephew used one on a solo hike for a week or two last summer. He also had a cell phone. Good technology!

Gives your coordinates, Lat. / Long. and time of check-in. Also sends a message: "I'm OK," or "HELP." With GPS locating, this is WAY faster and more direct than any flare/signal device.

There's the "10 Essential Items" list -- but this was developed by hikers in the Seattle area about 1930's. It's basic, but somewhat dated.

1) Map (GPS can crap out.)
2) Compass (GPS can crap out.)
3) Whistle (louder than yelling and less effort if you're injured.)

4) Flashlight / batteries.
5) Knife (fixed blade, and a multi tool is good backup.)

6) Waterproof matches / candles. (Bic can crap out on you.)

7) Extra food.
8) Extra clothing, socks
9) Water, (purification filter is nice backup.)
10) 1st Aid Kit -- basic stuff, and some "moleskin" for blisters. Tape for moleskin.

Of course, none of this is much use if you don't know how it's used.

Signal mirror is an excellent idea! They're metal, durable, lightweight, simple to use, and if a plane is looking, they'll see it.


Cell phone, GPS, broadcast radio (I have a Marine band -- but I'm at the ocean so it works here.)

Shelter, space blanket, some "stakes" for this, heavy duty cord for pitching a shelter.

Finally --

Print out a "flight plan" -- where you're headed, how long, when you'll return. File this with someone you know.

I put my name, cell phone number, car/truck model/year/color, plate # on a copy in LARGE print and leave it on the dash in view from the windshield. This way, your truck parked in the boonies gives an ID for your last location and route. Rangers check parked vehicles for ID.

Make sure someone knows you're out on the trail, where and when you plan to return.
 
Posts: 1841 | Registered: 13 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Rothke:

[ . . . ]

There's the "10 Essential Items" list -- but this was developed by hikers in the Seattle area about 1930's. It's basic, but somewhat dated.

1) Map (GPS can crap out.)
2) Compass (GPS can crap out.)
3) Whistle (louder than yelling and less effort if you're injured.)

4) Flashlight / batteries.
5) Knife (fixed blade, and a multi tool is good backup.)

6) Waterproof matches / candles. (Bic can crap out on you.)

7) Extra food.
8) Extra clothing, socks
9) Water, (purification filter is nice backup.)
10) 1st Aid Kit -- basic stuff, and some "moleskin" for blisters. Tape for moleskin.

Of course, none of this is much use if you don't know how it's used.

[ . . . ]



Yes. Everything you say is excellent advice. My recommendation for rope is genuine paracord (you can get 1000 feet of the stuff for about $40 - $50, I believe).

To your list of 10 essentials, I'd add a lightweight folding pruning saw and substitute a Firesteel and striker.

For the fireproof matches, I's substitute fire starter squares (remember to rough them up before trying to light them) or vaseline impregnated cotton balls. (I start all my outdoor fires with these.)

In my neck of the woods, the pruning saw is invaluable - you can make stakes for tarps, cut branches for burning, and create a baton for whacking your ka-bar to split wood or for driving stakes into the ground.

I also take a little FRS and extra batteries for it. Everyone knows that I'll be listening on channel 10 at the top and bottom of the hour, should a search party be out looking for me.

Hmmmmm . . . it's no longer a list of 10, is it? Smiler
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 10 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I have a Glock fixed blade w/ a serrated "root cutter" on the spine of the blade. It cuts stakes fine. Firewood in an emergency -- If I can't snap it w/ a boot, it's not worth putting on the fire. Unless it's "ready size" for the fire. (Lots and lots of ready wood locally.)

I like to run really light on the back-pack. A saw doesn't fit in. Para-cord, yes! Excellent stuff on the trail.

Being an ex Army Medic, I'm pretty adept at improvising in First Aid. You're wearing any bandage you might need. But blister bandages (moleskin) for the feet are good to pack. I have some packages of "anti-bacterial" wipes for cleaning up stuff. But you're going to get off the trail before it gets infected.

Water and food, sufficient clothing/shelter to spend an unexpected night is a good idea if you're "out of reach."

I do day hikes in a beach area a lot -- Tourist area. Hikes there are w/ a fanny pack and pockets on a jacket.
 
Posts: 1841 | Registered: 13 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Rothke:
I have a Glock fixed blade w/ a serrated "root cutter" on the spine of the blade.


That might also come in handy in a situation like THIS! Wink

 
Posts: 49226 | Registered: 21 January 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by B. L. O'Connor:
If you're comatose, injured or otherwise incapacitated and can't activate a device that requires a "functional you" to activate or operate it, or the device doesn't work, or you lost it, no device will be of much use.



I have heard that cell phones can help in a case like this. Because they regularly send out signals trying to touch base with a transmission tower, some say they can be used to trace lost people. This does not work as a distress call, of course, but if you're missing long enough someone might try to trace you that way.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Posts: 5188 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Check out "Spot Connect" paired with smart phone/iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad. Gives you satellite texting capabilities. Looks pretty sweet. tu2


 
Posts: 49226 | Registered: 21 January 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
quote:
Originally posted by B. L. O'Connor:
If you're comatose, injured or otherwise incapacitated and can't activate a device that requires a "functional you" to activate or operate it, or the device doesn't work, or you lost it, no device will be of much use.



I have heard that cell phones can help in a case like this. Because they regularly send out signals trying to touch base with a transmission tower, some say they can be used to trace lost people. This does not work as a distress call, of course, but if you're missing long enough someone might try to trace you that way.

Any thoughts on this?


It sounds reasonable, but I haven't heard of any "finds" based only on such a passive system, and I know of at least one case where that would have been used, if it were readily available.

I'm referring to the James Kim case. You may remember that he and his family went missing in the winter of 2006. Nobody had a clue where he was — he could have been in almost anywhere in southern Oregon or, perhaps, even in California somewhere. (As it was, he'd taken a wrong turn, and he and his family were in the back of beyond, snowed in some 26 miles off the road they'd intended to travel.)

The breakthrough came when a couple of guys did some cell-phone sleuthing and found that Kim's cell phone had automatically retrieved a couple of text messages, and with that information, they were able to locate the tower(s) which the phone had accessed. This reduced the search area tremendously to the area around Bear Camp Road in Josephine County OR (my county).

If my understanding is correct, the "find" happened only because there were text messages to be retrieved. Had there not been actual messages, I don't think the phone would have been located.

So merely having the phone on didn't help, and transmitting without hitting a tower didn't help.

On the other hand, in the past couple of years, our SAR unit has retrieved several parties who got lost on backcountry roads but were able to complete calls to 911. Then, the cell phone pings could often be used to locate the subjects by triangulating from the towers. I say "often" because 3 were very precise, 1 was way off (probably only two towers, rather than the required 3).
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 10 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Could you engineer this situation, I wonder, by getting someone to text you, but deliberately not opening the message?
 
Posts: 5188 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by sambarman338:
Could you engineer this situation, I wonder, by getting someone to text you, but deliberately not opening the message?


That's a good question, and I don't know the answer.

But the NYT reports that cell phones "look" for towers every 7 seconds, and their positions can be calculated when they do. (Turns out that in one 6 month time period, "Deutsche Telekom had recorded and saved his [Spitz's] longitude and latitude coordinates more than 35,000 times.")

That seems to imply that you don't even need to be receiving an actual message for the cell phone towers to locate you. Sounds like if your cell phone is on, and there is a tower it can reach, your position is approximately known (I'm guessing, but my hunch is you need 3 towers to locate you precisely).
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 10 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by B. L. O'Connor:
quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
Could you engineer this situation, I wonder, by getting someone to text you, but deliberately not opening the message?


That's a good question, and I don't know the answer.

But the NYT reports that cell phones "look" for towers every 7 seconds, and their positions can be calculated when they do. (Turns out that in one 6 month time period, "Deutsche Telekom had recorded and saved his [Spitz's] longitude and latitude coordinates more than 35,000 times.")

That seems to imply that you don't even need to be receiving an actual message for the cell phone towers to locate you. Sounds like if your cell phone is on, and there is a tower it can reach, your position is approximately known (I'm guessing, but my hunch is you need 3 towers to locate you precisely).


Here in Japan, one can sign up for a location finder subscription for a small extra monthly charge enabling you to, say, track the location of your child or spouse via their mobile phone.

In other words, anyone can use it.

My wife uses it regularly to locate our 12 year-old son, who does not always seem to hear the ringer. I once knew how to do this, but since the instructions are in Japanese, I'll have to get her to teach me again. In emergencies, like getting him home for dinner <g>, it can be quite useful.

I imagine that since the technology is available, it can be used by SAR in genuine emergencies too, such as the recent quake and tsunami here where so many people have gone missing.


Norman Solberg
International lawyer back in the US after 25 years and, having met a few of the bad guys and governments here and around the world, now focusing on private trusts that protect wealth from them. NRA Life Member for 50 years, NRA Endowment Member from 2014, NRA Patron from 2016.
 
Posts: 554 | Location: Sandia Mountains, NM | Registered: 05 January 2011Reply With Quote
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I don't know why you guys are hoping to feel safe that someone will find your cell phone location.

Have you never been out of cell phone contact?

Sheet where I hunt that's ALWAYS THE CASE!
 
Posts: 49226 | Registered: 21 January 2001Reply With Quote
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The story my wife told me sounded as though planes searching for lost people might carry technology on them that could detect the presence of cell phones nearby, oblivious of towers.
 
Posts: 5188 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Cell phones have 3 levels of traceability.
1.
successful calls are logged by a telecom & are pathway logged ( ie towers used in the call pathway).
- this is useful where the likely location is unknown, & is done historically as a historical desktop system log search where the cellphone number is known
2.
cellphones poll the system regularly on a short timebase..........its part of the Internal Working Protocol (IWP) of cellphone systems........its also what flattens your cell battery when you are out of range.
The network & your cellphone are programmed to internally maintain a link to the network, when the cellphone doesn't receive its network connection signal it continues to transmit ( without your initiation) to try to establish itself within the network).
...........ever notice how much faster your cell battery goes dead when you are out of reception range.
..........this IWP function is what maintains your signal strength display on your cell whenever it is turned on.

This can be used to triangulate your celphone position in a fairly "live" manner.
3.
SAR airccraft are not typically fitted with cellphone detection equipment , but the Telecoms maintain their own fleet of portable "black bags" that their technicians can use to detect a cellphone that is operating, but not located by the tower network. This equipment is used by the Telecoms to routinely monitor tower performance & check tower performance after transmitter maintenance...........also faultfind/troubleshoot reports of drop-outs.

Network Towers do not log any received calls outside their pre-programmed cell distance.
for network efficiency this is typically 35-55 Km.( this actually works on a timebased send & receive system relative to the distance where the network cuts off if a signal is not received within the programmed timebase).

telecoms who operate a CDMA / NextG extended cell network have a cell diameter of 150-170Km
( line of sight) & detect non-line-of-sight signals at closer distances .......due to their sensitivity.

An aircraft with a Telcom technician & his "black Bag" can detect cellphone transmissions directly ...........it is an imprecise system & largely operates on signal strength & relocating the aircraft to the area of strongest signal.

A NextG cellphone is a better choice than a G3 cellphone when 'going bush' ........for obvious reasons.
.........if you are out of system range & expecting a search for you, save your cell battery, turn your cell on for 5 min every 30 min or so, but be consistent with it , searchers using your cell to try to find you will work out your timebase & know when to focus on you.
if your hear an aircraft turn your cell on & leave it on while ever you can hear the aircraft.When you can't hear it any more return to the exact same cyclic on-off time base as before ie 5 min on the hour & half hour etc.
Of course use other signalling methods to try to attract the attention of the aircraft you assume is looking for you
Cellphone reception is NOT a primary search tool................ eyesight is.

Yeah, yeah, I know modern G3 systems actually use the CDMA technology ( they just don't acknowledge to the public its actually a CDMA transmission system..........He He ), but G3 systems are lower powered & cellbased to smaller cell distances for network efficiency in the G3 IWP.

FWIW
 
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