Hey guys, just kind of curous what you thought about this handgun. i am thinking about the one with the 7 1/2" barrel and scope mounts. I am juggling whether i want to get this or a Ruger GP100. If i got the redhawk, then that would be my hunting handgun and the .45 LC would be my carry handgun, and if i got the GP100, then that would be my carry gun and the blackhawk would be my hunting gun. What do you guys think? I already have all the reloading equipment and stuff for the .44 Mag including large magnum pistol primers, cases, and some bullets. I would probably load 240 grain Hornady XTP/Mags. The 300 grain is also a possibilty, but less likely.

NH_Hunter

I have had the Ruger Redhawk in a sst 7 1/2in since 1981- Are you getting the Super Redhawk? I use the 240 xtp for practice and cat's and the 240gr gold dot sp for hunting-The double action is nice in a Redhawk-Who knows you might need it some day..H110-26gr Max. I carry a Springfield 45 modifed to a 45 super

Throughout the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s I shot a 71/2" barrel redhawk (blued), mid 80s vintage, quite a bit (3-4000 rounds). I've taken a number of deer and one black bear with it, and a any number of varmints. I swapped out the standard blade open sight for a front bead and v-rear, just my preference. Never tried any optics. I found it to be capable of respectable accuracy; 5-shot groups into 1" or so at 25 yds., and I found I could keep 5 shots in the non-ruffle portion (usually) of a paper plate at 100 yds. Seems to me that I had good success with 240 gr bullets, Fed primers, and AA#9. I really have no complaints about it; it has proved reliable and accurate for many years and many rounds. I have been toying with the idea of buying a stainless version so I have a matching pair.

Assuming your 45 colt blackhawk is in good shape, you can load it up to 44 mag performance; I'd be surprised if any game will ever notice the difference. However, I've not been able to get the blackhawks I have owned to shoot as well as that redhawk, but that may well be a matter of sights and bad luck.

9.3

My Blackhawk .45LC can't shoot for crap. It shoots 2 foot groups at 10 feet. I did not flinch, and the .45LC Cowboy ammo kicks like a baby. Lighter than the .357 Mag that i shot out of a Ruger Bisley. I have heard rumors that the Ruger blackhawks in .45 LC have throat problems.

NH_Hunter

Are you shooting LRN bullets in a light weight 215gr and under?

I am shooting the 255 grain LRN Winchester Cowboy ammo. It also shot the Winchester 225 grain Silvertips horribley.

NH_Hunter

Do you have a way to measure the throats in the 45?

Sounds like they are undersize.

Somewhere I have a site that offers to ream the throat to the proper diameter if they are undersized for 25 bucks and shipping as I remember it.

You will have to measure them to see if that is what is needed.

My not-so-super Blackhawk (44 mag) is almost as inaccurate as you report.



Finally found the refereced site.

http://www.cylindersmith.com/

I have NO idea anything about them, I just got the Cylinder Shop site address from a post on another site.



Good luck, I am thinking of using my "super" blackhawk as a canoe anchor (at least it sould not be quite as disappointing!).

NH, it won't be a throat problem with a .44. You failed to state the load, primer and powder. With that bullet, try 7 grs. of unique or 231 and a standard primer. For heavy hunting loads the regular Redhawk loves H110. The Blackhawk and Super Redhawk loves 296. USE STANDARD FED PRIMERS IN THESE LOADS.
The worst thing for accuracy in revolvers is not enough neck tension and I am not talking about crimp. If you have RCBS dies your bullets will not be held tight. They have corrected the .45 dies, but not the .44's. Get the Hornady dies. You should be able to see the grease grooves and drive bands through the brass. Use a hard boolit so it doesn't get sized while seating.
The use of magnum primers can blow the boolit into the forcing cone before the powder gets a good burn going. Loose neck tension aggravates the problem.
Another thing I do with the Hornady dies is to only neck size to just below where a seated bullet is.
You should be able to get 1" groups or so at 50 yds.
Also you might consider a heavier boolit like the 320 gr LBT WLNGC for hunting. Don't load to get as much speed as you can, go for accuracy.

NH, oops, that one gun is a .45 you were talking about. Throats are too small! You should be able to thumb push a boolit through the throats on all chambers. I had to lap mine out and went from what you describe to 1" at 50 yds. Killed a deer at 100 yds with it. Easy to fix but takes a long time and some care to get them all the same.

The redhawk I had was a nice piece of hardware, wish I still had it.

NH, I've had my Redhawk since '82' and the thing seems to shoot really well, I use 21grs. of 2400 and Fed. Magnum pistol primers with the 240XTP and will put 5 shots in a 4" group at 50yds. with open sights, highly suggest you get the Redding Profile Crimp die, and the Hornady 'new dimension' dies, I also use a 330gr. SSK type hardcast bullet seated on the lower crimp groove with 22grs. of 296, contrary to popular belief, magnum primers are almost a must to get the slower burning 'ball' powders well lit, and the profile crimp is used by alot of guys out there that don't want their next round in the chamber to creep forward under recoil, and it helps to 'hold' the bullet a split second longer for better ignition, I heard it's used by alot by silhouette shooters, their little secret. BTW, I'm getting 1425fps with the 240XTP load, and 1400fps with the 330SSK load. Jay

Well then BFR, if that is the case with the powders, i have 296 and H110 . I will check into those crimp dies and those Hornady "New Dimension" dies. If i do get the redhawk i will most likely shoot the 240 XTP's exculsively, start with minimum loads, and work my way up until i get accuracy and comfortable recoil. Flinching defintely isnt good if you handgun hunt!

NH_Hunter

Jay, every time I tried magnum primers, group size tripled. (shooting .44's since 1956) Every thing else you do is the same as what I do and use. I would NOT be happy with 4" groups at 50 OR 100 yds. Have you ever used standard primers or are you repeating what you hear? THEY ARE NOT NEEDED. Also 21.5 gr. of 296 is more accurate with your heavy bullet. As I always say, go for accuracy, not velocity. Try them, you might just be a convert!
Try H110 in that Redhawk, they seem to prefer it over 296.
Blackhawks and Super Redhawks, use 296.

Bfr, I guess I use them from all the articles I've read on the subject of shooting slower burning powders, remember also, that I shot my 4" groups with factory open sights, which will leave a greater propencity to open up the group size, when I use to have my SRH with 9.5" bbl and 2.5x scope, I tried one 6 shot group at 100yds. which If I remember correctly came to a total of a 4-5" group, had 2 separate groups where 3 shots were touching, this was with 21grs. 2400 and the 240XTPs, that load also produced groups of less than an inch with 6 shots @25yds.,(SRH) basically one ragged hole, so, if I put a scope on my RH, I think I could duplicate or come close to my SRH groupings, And actually, as I look at the 50yd. target I shot with my RH, 4 of the 5 shots went into group measuring 1 7/8", had a flier 3.5" high, acual group size 3 3/8", I can't complain about that with open sights, guess I'll keep using the magnum primers for now, don't shoot it that much anyway. Jay

Hey guys, i did a little calculating with my hornady manual and my computer with Point Blank shooting program. I found out that a .45 LC out of my Blackhawk at 900 FPS with a 250 grain bullet had the same recoil as the redhawk with the scope on it and a 240 grain .44 caliber bullet at 1200 fps! I am pretty sure that is what i found out. I found out that with the gun and all the stuff i wanted, it was going to be 550 bucks! I would have to do that over time.

NH_Hunter

I have a Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2" with a 2.5 TC recoil proof on it, AND I shoot Hornady 240 XTP's out of it. 24 grains 296 gives me 1,361 fps at the muzzle and 3" groups at 100 yards. It has accounted for several deer out to 100 yards.

Greg, both powders are made by Winchester and have almost the same burn rate, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE SAME POWDER. The difference is slight, but the same load and bullet will have a difference in pressure and velocity from each powder. It is enough that one gun will like one over the other. I have gone through pounds and pounds of each. I was never able to get H110 to group with my Blackhawks, only 296 worked. The Redhawk would spray bullets with 296 and settled down with H110. You have to treat them for what they are and that is that they are NOT exactly the same. Hodgden has WW make H110 to their specs. They just don't re-package 296.

Guys, There's one way to find out, I'll call Hodgdon tomorrow, 1-800-622-4366, and get it straight from the horses mouth, I know they told me already that H414 and 760 are the same powder, Jay

Greg, 296 and H110 are interchangeable as far as load weights. But they behave just a little different. I have often wondered if the factory doesn't take one end of the batch burn rate of 296 and send that to Hodgden. Normally, canister powders are taken from the center of a powders burn rate and the faster and slower stuff is sent to be used in factory loads where the factories can test each batch and load accordingly.
I also see a lot of guys saying to use 4227. I worked up very accurate loads using this stuff. I was shooting slow on a cool day. Very tight groups to 200 meters. I went to my first silhouette shoot prepared to do good with my brand new Ruger KS 411. I did good on the first 5 chickens and from that point on it really went to hell. As the gun got hot and the sun got hotter, I started hitting lower as the velocity was climbing. I would center the first ram and shoot under the next. I kept raising my sights and kept hitting lower. By the time I got to ram 10, I was 16 clicks over normal and still hit 50 yds. short. ALL my primers were dead flat. I reduced the load to 21 grs. at home and tried again at my range, still had flat primers.
I went and bought H110 and 296 and worked up loads. 296 excelled. I moved from unclassified to international class in 2 shoots and the next shoot was Ohio state and I won it with 79 hits out of 80. Not bad for a Ruger Super Blackhawk I would say. I won a lot of shoots with it. I tried H110 many times in this gun and my Super Redhawk and never got the groups I did with 296. To let you know how much shooting I did, I am going on 56,000 rounds from the KS 411. I can not add up the .44's I have shot. I have had 8 of them including 4 Smith and Wessons and a Dan Wesson.
Then my shooting partner had a regular Redhawk and we could not keep 296 loads on paper at 50 yds. I switched to H110 for him and it shot very tight groups. This has been my experience with 3 more Redhawks. You can't tell me these powders are the same because I proved it time and again that there is something different about them. It is very subtle, but it is there. You have to try both in a gun to see which it likes. And don't take somebodys word on 4227 either. IT IS VERY HEAT SENSITIVE. 2400 is very good but I have found it is very dirty. It is probably better for a gun because 296 and H110 sandblast the forcing cone. Mine is rough but will still group in an inch at 50 yds.
I was hitting beer cans with my Super Redhawk at 200 yds. from the bench with 296. I WON'T CHANGE!

Greg, more info for you guys. When I first started shooting .44's and .45's I would get a tight group one time and a horrible group the next. I noticed a different feel when seating bullets. I made a spring handle for my press with a rod going through the handle with a faucet washer on it to record seating pressure. I would start the bullet just in the case mouth and use the spring handle to finish seating (RCBS dies) The washer would stay on a graduation line depending on the pressure to seat. I would sort these by number. I would have 15 piles on my bench. If I took the loose ones I would get a 1/2" group. The tight ones also gave me a 1/2" group, but 6 to 10 inches lower. Magnum primers would change my 1/2" groups to 3". Now if I mixed all these loads, my best would be 6". I ordered bench rest dies to fit my press and tried a different floating size button for cases that seemed different. There was no way to figure the brass hardness or bullet fit so I gave that up.
I then tried Hornady titanium nitride dies and they cured the bullet tension problem overnight. I no longer sort loads. I use a Redding profile crimp because I don't like to seat and crimp in the same operation.
I only size to just below a seated bullet (neck size.)
Here are my most accurate loads; Hornady 240 gr. silhouette bullet, 23.5 grs. 296. Hornady 240 gr. XTP (most accurate bullet I have found) 24 grs. 296. 300 gr. XTP, 20.5 gr. 296. 320 gr. LBT WLNGC or Lee 310 gr. or my 330 gr. copy of the LBT. 21.5 grs. of 296. STANDARD FED. PRIMERS IN ALL LOADS. I seat to the lower crimp grooves on bullets with 2 grooves.
Any questions, just ask. I probably have over 200,000 loads through the .44's I have owned. That is a lot of experimenting. (since 1956)

NH, want a kick ass load for the .45 colt? Drops deer like lightning. 335 gr. LBT WLNGC, 21.5 grs. 296 and standard primer. (I can't say that enough I guess, but guys believe the manuals.) DO NOT USE THIS LOAD IN ANYTHING BUT A RUGER OR FREEDOM ARMS.
Not good for practice because you won't want to shoot more then 6. Very nasty with one hand.

Well fellas, Just got off the phone with Mike at Hodgdon about the H110 and 296 debate, and he said they're the same exact powder made by the same company in Florida, General Dynamics. So, if Bfr is getting different results with these 2 powders, it's just a matter of Lot#s differences, coincidence, etc. etc. He also said, Winchester doesn't make powders, so there it is, debate over, Jay

Very interesting. GD must make WW powders too then. So it must be that a different section of the batches is sent to Hodgden and another sent to WW. As I have said, the difference is slight, but it has been the same can after can so it must be what they package. I think it is more then just lot numbers because I have shot thousands of shots with 296 and no change was ever noted no matter what lot I had. Same with H110. This gets very hard to explain. Every batch of powder is tested when completed and any that is is in the center of the burn rate for that powder is put in cans for reloaders. Any batch that is outside of these parameters is sent to factories in bulk. It could be the batches sent to Hodgden are a little outside of center and Hodgden tests and cans it. What can I say except I have tested them side by side for years and H110 works better in some guns and 296 works better in others. I can not say it is because of different lots. I have used too many cans of each.

Jay, LBT's only have one crimp groove. I use them in all the guns and the nose is very close to the end of the cylinder. I get 1316 fps with the 320 gr. I have not chronographed my 330 gr. boolit but it must be close because it hits the same place out to 100 yds.
The XTP'S have two crimp grooves. If you seat the bullet too deep with these loads, pressure will go up and you should start low and work up because the most accurate loads will be different. I have never tried to get the most velocity because it is never accurate with any bullet. No deer has told me that my bullet was too slow and didn't hurt.
If you start at the low end for a powder and work up 1/2 gr. at a time, the groups will tighten and then start to open again. Go back to the tightest load and don't worry about how fast they are going.
Winchester always said to not load less then max with 296. This is bull. If it was true, the manuals would only have one load. I suggest not going below a starting load though. For the 320 gr. LBT it is 19 grs. Starting here you will see improvement to 21.5 gr. and then the groups will start to open and at 23 grs. will be the same as 19 was. I get the same size groups in hot or cold weather too.
Maybe H110 will work with a different amount so you might want to try it. I never varied the H110 far from what 296 was shooting and this might be why I never had luck with it. For years I considered it the same as 296 so I never really reduced or increased the charges enough to see what would happen. The slight difference might call for a change of up to 2 grs. to work. Let me know if you find anything, I am out of H110. I like the powder and it always shot decent in my Blackhawk, but not as tight as 296. I never got 2400 to shoot as tight either even though it shot decent. If that was all I had, I would be happy with it.
I never understood why 296 didn't work in the standard Redhawk either. It must have something to do with barrel vibrations. Again, maybe up to a 2 or 3 gr. difference would have fixed it. I have to admit staying too close to my best loads with H110 and not giving it a chance. I should have gone the full spectrum with it.

(quote) Bfr,

Then my shooting partner had a regular Redhawk and we could not keep 296 loads on paper at 50 yds. I switched to H110 for him and it shot very tight groups. This has been my experience with 3 more Redhawks. You can't tell me these powders are the same because I proved it time and again that there is something different about them. It is very subtle, but it is there. You have to try both in a gun to see which it likes. And don't take somebodys word on 4227 either. IT IS VERY HEAT SENSITIVE. 2400 is very good but I have found it is very dirty. It is probably better for a gun because 296 and H110 sandblast the forcing cone. Mine is rough but will still group in an inch at 50 yds.

I was hitting beer cans with my Super Redhawk at 200 yds. from the bench with 296. I WON'T CHANGE!

---

Bfr, You say that 4227 IS VERY HEAT SENSITIVE, are we talking about H4227 here, because that's an Extreme powder and shouldn't be a heat sensitive powder, and I've found that extruded powders in general aren't heat sensitive, but moreso with the Extreme powders, I've got an issue of Shooting Times in which they found that H4227 was the most accurate powder when used with heavy bullets, to quote,"Loads containing H4227 were the most accurate, with IMR-4227 in an extremely close second place. The W296 and H110 loads weren't exactly inaccurate, but were tied for a distant third place in six guns." These guns were BTW custom SRHs with custom Shilen 7 1/2" barrels, and the best they got for accuracy was just under 4" @100yds.,(5 shot groups) using a Ransom rest, which was the next thing I wanted to ask you about. How many shots are you using to get 1 inch @50yds.? Is this 1 inch an average or an all day long thing? This is quite impressive if you use 5 or 6 shot groups with a stock Ruger barrel. The best I've done with that 330gr. SSK(type) load(22grs. 296) Fed. Magnum pistol primers, Rem. brass is just under 3", with 3 of the 6 shots just under an inch,(50yds.) again with factory blade sights. Jay

Jay, that is my average group size for 6 shots. At times they are smaller and then a little larger. But you have to consider these groups are not shot from a bench. I shoot Creedmore with the barrel alongside my leg. It depends on how steady I am that day. When I was younger I shot 1/2" groups at 50 yds, Creedmore with a Smith 29 and open sights. I now have a red dot sight on all my guns for hunting and it is harder to get tight groups because the dot covers a lot of target. With a scope on my Rugers, I could shoot tight groups all day. Much easier to hunt with the dots though.
I was using IMR 4227 and yes they were very very accurate until the gun got hot. Believe me it gets hot too. I tried H4227 also but it was not an extreme powder back then. That is a recent change. It might shoot now, but I won't buy a can.
Hey Jay, try standard primers and cut the load 1/2 gr. and get back to me on what happens.

Bfr, I suppose I could try the standard primers, I've got some sitting on my loading bench, don't know if I can match that 1" your getting, that seems out of reach for a handgun with open sights, like I said in my last post, I can put 3 shots inside an inch, but 6, I don't know about that, give it a shot though, got any tips? I know, smooth trigger pull, be the bullet, follow through, Jay