I know it could be strange to compare these 2 cartridges but I wonder which is the best.

FA chambers these 2 cartridges in their Model 83, some other custom revolvers makers chamber also these 2 cartridges (Bowen, Reeder,...)

From Hodgdon

.475 Linebaugh with a 385 gr bullet 30 gr of H110 for a velocity of 1550 fps

.50 AE in a FA revolver with a 385 gr bullet 30 gr of H110 for a velocity of 1550 fps
The very max load for this cartridge is 31 gr H110 but the case stuck to the chamber.

I have seen lots of posts regarding .475 Linebaugh performances but seldom same post regarding .50 AE in a SA revolver.

Case is easy to find for both cartridges and bullet are available Honardy for .475 Linebaugh and Speer for .50 AE

May be .50 AE cartridge is ignored, and I want to know why? Velocity is the same than for .475 Linebaugh

Many thanks for input.

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

Personally I don't like the idea of a rimless case in a revolver, especially one that requires heavy crimps to keep the bullets in place. I don't know that this is a problem, and I've never shot or loaded for the 50 ae in a revolver.

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Even the strongest oak must bend to the winds of fate.

quote:

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Originally posted by BER007:
Hi All,

I know it could be strange to compare these 2 cartridges but I wonder which is the best.

FA chambers these 2 cartridges in their Model 83, some other custom revolvers makers chamber also these 2 cartridges (Bowen, Reeder,...)

From Hodgdon

.475 Linebaugh with a 385 gr bullet 30 gr of H110 for a velocity of 1550 fps

.50 AE in a FA revolver with a 385 gr bullet 30 gr of H110 for a velocity of 1550 fps
The very max load for this cartridge is 31 gr H110 but the case stuck to the chamber.

I have seen lots of posts regarding .475 Linebaugh performances but seldom same post regarding .50 AE in a SA revolver.

Case is easy to find for both cartridges and bullet are available Honardy for .475 Linebaugh and Speer for .50 AE

May be .50 AE cartridge is ignored, and I want to know why? Velocity is the same than for .475 Linebaugh

Many thanks for input.

---

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Even the strongest oak must bend to the winds of fate.

I agree with you but this data is ONLY with the Desert Eagle Pistol (gas operated) 6" barrel. With my Desert Eagle I can reach a velocity of 1400 fps with a 325 gr bullet For a FA you can reach a higher velocity.

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

I agree with you but I have read crimping problems with the .50 AE round in a revolver.
I think it will be in theory. I have talked with some owners of a SA revolver (custom or FA) in .50 AE, according to them , they haven't seen no problems with this round with heavy crimp and heavy bullet.

I can tell you more now, I'm waiting my new FA in .50 AE to tell you more.

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

I don't know who you are but your advices and your knowledge in this field are great

Thanks for your reply .

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

I don't know any serious shooters who prefer the 50 AE over the Linebaughs...or even a handloaded 45 colt...or even the 44 mag. It was never designed for use in revolvers. The 50 caliber needs weight to do it's job and the 50 AE case won't support that. Rimless is worthless in a big bore hunting revolver.

[This message has been edited by yukon delta (edited 04-20-2002).]

I agree with you the .50 AE rimless aren't design for a revolver purpose but for the Desert Eagle. but I don't seen any problems to use this cartridge in a revoler perfectly chabbered for this round like FA revolver.

With my FA I'll use a 385 gr bullet design for FA revolver (and others) in .50 AE. I can reach a velocity for this bullet roughly 1550 fps with 30-31 gr H110.

I have choosen this round because I already own a Desert Eagle in that caliber. I have brass from IMI (500 pieces) I have reloading dies from Honardy. In other words I don't want an other caliber which have performances similar (.475 linebaugh), I have enough handgun caliber now.IMHO

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

Let me know if you get 1500 fps with those 385's without the bullets jumping crimp. It's really tough to get a good crimp because the 50 AE headspaces on the mouth and cannot be adequately crimped. The 50 AE is best thought of as a "50 special"...300 gr. cast at 800-900 fps. Also, AE chambers may build up lead or powder fouling on the seat for the case mouth. This results in insufficient headspace so keep those chambers clean. (I paraphrased p. 278 of Hamilton Bowen's new book 'The Custom Revolver').

I have taken tid realod data from newsletter of The Five Shot Journal the official publication of the Freedom Arms Collectors Association.

I can't confirm it now, I'm waiting to receive my next FA in .50 AE.

I can't doubt about Hamilton Bowen thinks about .50 AE (p. 278 of Hamilton Bowen's new book 'The Custom Revolver). But I'm referring some owner of FA in .50 AE they think not only the same thing as Bowen of this cartridge.

I have seen the same thing than Hamilton Bowen in the John Taffin book.

But I need to repeat that owner of FA have experienced a 385 gr bullet at 1550 fps with their FA and this with heavy crimp.

As I told you I'll confirm it or not when I'll test myself with my FA in .50 AE.

RGDS.

Let me know if you get 1500 fps with those 385's without the bullets jumping crimp. It's really tough to get a good crimp because the 50 AE headspaces on the mouth and cannot be adequately crimped. The 50 AE is best thought of as a "50 special"...300 gr. cast at 800-900 fps. Also, AE chambers may build up lead or powder fouling on the seat for the case mouth. This results in insufficient headspace so keep those chambers clean. (I paraphrased p. 278 of Hamilton Bowen's new book 'The Custom Revolver').[/B][/QUOTE]

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

[This message has been edited by cas (edited 05-01-2002).]

It sounds like to me that you are using way to much crimp on your cases. What is happening is that when your firing pin hits the primer it drives the case into the chamber as far as it will go, This is when the case mouth should seal at the origins of the throat and stop the forward movement of the round. In your case, the rounded or tapered edge of the case mouth slipped by the end of the chamber and allowed the round to move to far forward.

I have talked with BER007 about this topic on other sights and agree with him. The 50 A.E. maybe the most under rated big bore we have on the market.

I have a T/C Encore chambered in this round and can tell you that in a 15" barrel, this round is fully capable of driving the 325 gr Speer Uni-Core Sp to velocities of nearly 2000 fps with zero problems in headspacing. A 385 gr bullet can be driven to almost 1800 fps. The loads I have tested will not be given simply because they are taylored to the Encore pistol and no other handgun period. I understand that I do not have the problems of oal length and bullets jumping under recoil as do the revolver shooters, but I can tell you that in a strong action, the 50 A.E. case is fully capable of extreme performance.

Take a 50 A.E. and a 454 case and cross section them both. The 50 A.E. will be dramatically thicker in the case wed and side walls and its thick body walls extend much higher then the 454 does.

This is because this case is designed for a semi-auto handgun but it also makes for a hell for stout case for high performance loads in other stronger actions.

The 50 A.E. is an amazing big game round. If there were more interest there would be a better selection of componant bullets on the market. Its really a pitty.

Just my experience!!!

50

Actually, to have a thicker case than the 454 limits your case capacity and can drive pressures up if you're not careful. Something to think about.

The 50 AE may or may not be underrated but it is what it is...if you want to compare it to the 454, etc. that's fine...but it's not apples to apples.

You'll have a tough time putting a big enough bullet in the 50 AE to get good SD...that's what gives you penetration (not velocity).

quote:

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Originally posted by M.R.CLEAN:
Fiftydriver where did you find your Encore .50ae barrel? I have been thinking of getting one but could not locate anyone that sells that caliber.

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About four years ago, Midway USA purchased a special run of Encore barrels from T/C. There were a few different calibers, 257 Roberts, 7mmx57 and the 50 A.E. in 15" barrels.

I assume that these 50 A.E. barrels were first made for the T/C muzzleloader for the Encore as they both have .500" bores. Anyway, they must have cut some of them for the 50 A.E. because this is where I got my barrel. To bad they do not list it as a factory option.

You might want to contact their custom shop and see if they can help you with a 50 A.E. barrel.

Good Hunting!!!

50

quote:

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Originally posted by yukon delta:
Fiftydriver, what is the purpose in having a thicker case in the 50 than the 454? The cases are not the limiting factor in the 454...the cylinders and topstraps CAN be limiting but that Freedom Arms will go past your limits...of that I can assure you!

--My statement is simply that the case itself is designed to handle the strain of a semi-auto action, and comparing the 50 A.E. case with any other magnum handgun case will show that this is a stout case. Actually only the cylinder is the limiting factor in the Freedom Arms revolver. If it lets go, the top strap will do nothing in the way of keeping the cylinder from failing. The top strap is essentially a non stress area of the revolver.

As far as comparing the freedom arms revolver strength to the T/C Encore, I am afraid that the Encore is by far a stronger action then the freedom arms revolver. The Revolver will easily handle the strain of the 454 at 50,000 psi but the Encore will handle rounds with that size case head well over 65,000 psi. The 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag rifle barrels are the same dimensions as the handgun barrels at the breech end, same strength as well.
Actually, to have a thicker case than the 454 limits your case capacity and can drive pressures up if you're not careful. Something to think about. As far as case capacity goes, the 50 A.E. will easily hold 40 gr of H-110 under a 325 gr bullet and about 35 under a 385 gr pill. This is a bit more then a 454. These loads would be to much simply because the powder is a bit quick for this large of a case capacity but it shows the size and capacity of the case we are dealing with. Another example is the 440 Corbon, it has the capacity to match the 454 with 300 gr bullets and keep pressure in the 35,000-40,000 psi range, says a little about the capacity of the 50 A.E. parent case.--

The 50 AE may or may not be underrated but it is what it is...if you want to compare it to the 454, etc. that's fine...but it's not apples to apples.

--In a strong action, the 50 A.E. case will easily handle the same pressures that the 454 amd 475 will.--

You'll have a tough time putting a big enough bullet in the 50 AE to get good SD...that's what gives you penetration (not velocity).

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--A 400 gr LBT design in the 50 A.E. will produce enough penetration for damn near anything one could ever want to do with a revolver or handgun. Also, if a bullet is made to not deform under impact strains, the faster you drive it, the deeper it will go. Same reason a 120gr 7mm X bullet will penetrate as deep as a 150 gr conventional SP of same caliber.--

I am not saying the 50 A.E. is the all mighty stopping handgun round, only that its better then most think and that few can get over a couple myths about its case design to see what it can really do.

Good Hunting!!!

50

This is not the post to get into this but velocity like anything else has to be balanced. You can put more velocity behind a bullet and actually get less penetration! I'm not talking about bullet failure either. There is a hydraulic effect that occurs when a bullet hits living material...consider this...when your hand slaps the water...doing it harder/faster does not necessarily make your hand go deeper. Bullets have a "splash effect".

More velocity can also make a bullet unstable "after" it hits...etc.

I also believe that hydrostatic shock waves greated by a bullet are really non existent until impact velocities reach close to 2000 fps.

That said, a rifle bullet, say .308" caliber, will have no where near the "slap" as a .500" WFN when both are traveling at the same velocity. Simply from the frontal area increase with the larger bullets.

Also, as far as bullet stability goes. It is a know fact that short heavy bullets penetrate straighter then long skinny bullets, especially those that are not designed to expand. As we have already stated, the heaviest bullet easily available for the .500" bore is a 400-405 gr LBT design. This bullet is relatively short for the 1/2" bore an will penetrate in a very straight line.

Don't get me wrong here, I agree with your comments totally and know them to be true, but I don;t know if, in this case, we are increasing velocity enough to be detremintal to penetration.

I will tell you a little hunting story about my Encore chambered in the 50 A.E.

Two others and I were on an exotic sheep hunt in eastern Washington. The sheep we were hunting were Black Hawaiian, Texas Dall and Corsican rams. These rams weigh about 125-150 lbs for the trophy class we were hunting. My two partners were using archery equiptment and I used my Encore.

I found my ram on the second day of the hunt, a record book class Black Hawaiian. After about a half day of attempted stocks in the timbered canyon we were hunting, I finally got within 134 yards of the ram. He was facing directly at me at the shot, not my favorite but I took what he gave me. He simple dissapeared after the shot.

We found him 12 yards from the impact. The bullet I was using was the 325 gr Speer Uni-Core HP loaded to 1850 fps using H-110. I was using this hunt to test the bullet at this velocity to see if it could be used on heavier game.

The bullet centered the sternum, made an impressive mess of the chest cavity, penetrated liver, and stomach cavity, and finally entered the right hind ham, broke the femur at mid shaft and then fully exited. The exit wound after nearly three feet of penetration was about an inch in diameter. Obviously the bullet had very controlled expansion at the high velocity.

Now the ram was what it is, a 150 pound ram, but the angle of the shot and the penetration proved to me that I could easily use this round on any non dangerous game basically in the world. It would be foolish to try to break the shoulder on a 1000 lb bull elk but with a shot behind the shoulders, I know this round would easily get full penetration. With a 400 gr Hard Cast bullet, I would not worry about that shoulder shot at all.

Of course range should be kept to near 100 yard on larger game.

The limitations on this round have more to do with the guns at this time then the case. As we all know, if a handgun has tight chambers, brass is almost indestructable. If the chambers are loose, real power can not be found.

All I'm saying is that in a tight chambered gun with a strong action, the 50 A.E. is a great hunting round that should be classed with the 454,475 and even 500 Linebaugh.

Good Hunting!!!

50

I'm curious, why didn't you opt for the long barrel for the desert eagle? Or maybe that's not avaialable? Looks like it would be a great way of achieving the full potential.

You have seen a Desert Eagle with a 10" barrel...it is ugly

Regarding datas I have for Desert Eagle,
6" barrel .50 AE 300 gr bullet at 1394 fps
10" barrel .50 AE 300 gr bullet at 1515 fps

The difference of velocity is not huge. For me the ultimate potential of this round is in a FA or strong custom revolver (Bowen,..).

With a 7 1/2" barrel a 300 gr bullet in a FA
at 1700 fps (at least).

This is my 2cts worth...

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

I agree with you 100% on your last comments. The 10" pipe on the D.E. is definately impressive looking but it makes an already heavy and bulk pistol into a very long, heavy and bulky pistol, with as you said limited gain in velocity over the 6" pipe.

Even with the longer 10" barrel, the desert eagle is still limited to the same pressure loads and same bullets (full rear jacketed).

Not only does the F.Arms revolver allow use of heavy hard cast bullets, it also allows for heavier powder charges for higher velocities then the D.E. will function safely and reliable at for a long life.

Not to mention, the single action or even custom double action revolvers are a much better hunting rig then a semi-auto pistol.

I totally agree with BER007.

Good Hunting!!

50

Many thanks, Billy, for your support

Could tell me more about DA revolver custom in .50 AE, I know Bowen (may be I'm wrong) do this.

I always have heard that SA revolvers have 50-75 fps velocity more than DA revolvers in same caliber. Fact or fiction?

Thanks in advance.

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

I have only fired one custom double action chambered for the 50 A.E. This was a Bowen Super Redhawk with a 7 1/2" barrel. With top handloads, this revolver threw the 325 gr Speer HP at a velocity of 1695 fps for a 10 shot string I tested. This did not appear to be a max load but was close enough and had 1" accuracy at 50 yards, good place to stop.

I have seen his Redhawks and Super Redhawks chambered not only in the 50 A.E. but also the 50 Spl. and 500 Linebaugh.

The cylinder dimensions on these two revolvers are quite a bit larger then the Single action Blackhawk and Bisley revolvers, especially when made to fill the window of the big double actions.

As far as velocities go from a single action to a double action, I would say that if both had barrels of same quality, chambers and throats of same dimensions and the same cylinder gap, velocities would be identical. These listed factors have much more to do with velocity then action type from what I've seen.

Because the double action Rugers have front and rear locking mechanisms on the cylinder crane, they can handle the pounding of extreme recoil for a long life, about the only revolver to do this save the Taurus Raging Bull.

Good Hunting

50

BTW: A few custom barrel makers still offer 50A barrles.