I posted this in July and got some good input. I've had a wrist injury that's nixed pistol shooting temporarily but has given me more time to ponder. I'm thinking of a holographic sight for my application. They seem relatively light weight, compact usable. What do you experienced guys think of holosights for the application? What are the trade offs?
recommendations?

My original post: I'm an experienced hunter but new to pistols. Last season a crossbow hunting buddy killed a black bear that weighed 450 lb.s field-dressed so I bought a .41 mag scandium S&W back-up gun. I'm thinking of maybe trying it for whitetail out to @40 yrds. The standard iron sights on the gun are useless to me, short radius and to hard to see for a guy my age.

We put a Eotec on my friends S&W .500 and it has withstood the recoil

I would definately look into the Eotec setup!

Justin

How any stand up to recoil has been my concern. I asked Bushnell how thiers would take the recoil of my .475 and they said it would break. The .41 is not that bad and the .500 S&W has less recoil because of the porting. I have destroyed a lot of scopes and red dots on my guns from .44 up. This of course gives me fear to buy something expensive that will break.
I have gone to the Ultra Dot and have thousands of heavy loads without a single problem.
The best thing to do is to call the sight maker or gun maker and tell them what gun you want to put it on and see what they say.
I hate sending stuff back after a few shots. I bought a new swift scope and the advertisement said it was super tough. I never got it sighted before it blew the insides out.
I called Magnum Research about my .475 BFR and they said the Ultra Dot is the only one holding up.
Get as much info as you can before spending the money. Use the phone.

Thanks bfrshooter, I flinch just reading about shooting a .500. I probably should have mentioned that I had the .41 mag Magna-ported in July. The recoil wasn't too bad before I had it done but I figured the porting would improve my shooting. I still haven't tried .41 since it was ported. My right wrist is in a brace from spending many hours last February chopping ice off my driveway with a trenching spade. I still have tendonitis in the rt. elbow wrapped up from the same ice follies. Too soon we get old and too late we get smart.

If it counts any, I think my friends ported .500 kicks more then my 454 loaded pretty heavy and hot.

I think the porting on the top of the barrel for the 500 wasnt for recoil reduction but more muzzle rise, as it didnt help with recoil

Justin, you still haven't tried the 400 grain loads for your Casull!

You have to try them out, Justin, and let me know what you think!

It is all in the mounting. I mounted a EoTech on 12 inch .411JDJ Contender without any problems.. Had that same sight mounted on a S&W 657 and a Ruger SBH Hunter .41RemMag. Out to my self imposed max range of 30 yards or less it worked just fine.

Thanks Crawfish. I'm leaning that way but don't know how to compare the holosights. Holding the things up doesn't tell me much and I've got to buy one to mount it.

Well as with everything, second hand knowledge needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The setup that I found as fast you may find cumbersome and unfortunately you need to buy first. With the EoTech that isn't a small amount to hang out there on what someone posts on a board. All I can say for certain is that 95% of scope/red dot/helo sights problems are because of improper mounting.

I've heard the improper mounting issue before.
What are the common pitfalls of mounting such a thing? I wouldn't attempt to mount whatever I end up buying. I'd try to find someone within driving distance of home who has a clue about such things.
I don't know who it would be yet.

The EoTech has a Weaver type clamp on mounting system. I always use Loctite on mounting screws and I also use a two part epoxy under the base if there is one. I always degrease all the mounting system components and use some sort of adhesive (usually Loctite) on all the screws. Just to give you an idea of the power level I was dealing with a .411JDJ is a FULL SIZE .444Marlin case necked to .41 caliber. I put a couple hundred rounds through that 12 inch Contender. Son#1 has it now and shoots as much ammo as I'll load for him. That EoTech hasn't blinked once.

It is NOT mounting when all the internal glass of a scope is shredded or the front prizm of a red dot pulls from the tube---IT IS RECOIL ON A POOR DESIGN. If a cheap glue is used on glass and the tube is not crimped to hold it in, you have a failure. Bad mounting only results in scope movement and screwed up tubes, not internal destruction. Explain how a scope that does not move in rings can be kept from being destroyed by mounting better!!!! 10 rings won't help you if the scope internals are junk.

I can contact eotec, but does anyone have any experience/opinions or Eotec holoscope recoil resistance?

How about anybody else's holoscope's recoil resistance?

I have an EOTech on a 454 Casull and it works great. I had it on a Ruger 454 and 2 years ago got a Freedom Arms. The only issue was I noticed the cross rod that tightens it was bent when I changed it to the Freedom Arms. This didn't hurt how it worked. EoTech sent me a free one and asked I keep them posted as they had no previous reports of this.
When I bought it I asked EOtech if it would hold up on a 454 pistol and they told me they originally made them for the pistol market, but the AR application took off. (I mostly shoot 260gr and 300 grain. I have probably shot 300 rounds plus with this sight.) I love it for deer at dusk and dawn.

I purchased my EoTech sights at a gun show from two EoTech reps. The show was here a Ft. Bragg and was to show new technology to the Special Ops community. I also had concerns about the sights holding up to lots of recoil. I was going to put one of the sights on a Contender that is chambered in .41GNR#2 which is a heavy hitter on both ends. I was also told that the sight was originally designed as a handgun application but as you said it took off as a M16 must have. I was told that the way the sight was tested for handguns was to mount it on .44RemMag revolvers, clamp the guns down to prevent it from moving and fire it over and over until something failed. After that they took the sight to a testing sight for Leupold scoped and put the EoTech on the Leupold tested. It replicates the recoil of a .458Rem. They turned over all the test data they had to us. This was well before their sights were standard issue. At that time they were "mission specific" for the Special Ops guys. The point of the testing was to abuse these sights until they failed and fail they did. Under normal non-military use you should not have any problems with the sight. FOR bfrshooter read my post I said 95% of scope problems is because of mounting the other 5% is due to manufacturing shortcuts or QA lapses.

That is a ringing endorsement. Now all I have to do is research the model and price them. Thanks guys.

For what it's worth I think the bigger problem you will have is not how durable the Eotech will be but rather what kind of holster you will put it in.

I've put a Holosight on a GP100 in 357 and it's held up admirably over the past two years and 2000 rounds of full mag ammo. It's the first red-dot that I've used that hasn't broken down on me.

Anyway the challenge I had with it was finding a holster to use with the holosight.


- Edited to add: Honestly, I'm not that sure how good a holosight would be. It's got an on/off switch issue: if it's not on it's useless. I'd recommend that IF you choose to go with an EoTech, stock up on batteries. You are going to want to turn that thing on the moment it goes into the holster. I'm going to highly recomend that you also lear to sight off the top of the sight or the corners of the sight should the dot fail. I have a couple of dots of white-out on the top of my Holosight - good enough for a 6" group at 7 yards...

You may well want to look into the Aimpoint red-dots. they have a 10,000 hour battery life (!) and don't even use an on/off switch anymore.

I don't think battery life will be an issue. I hunt from a stand and would have any reason to turn the sight on until I came down to follow up a crossbow shot.

I apologize for being late to the thread. I've been investing time to learn more about red dot sights. The result includes some answers -- and more questions, of course.

I am put off by the clumsiness of having a telescopic sight-like device atop my Super Redhawk .480 Ruger revolvers. A second class of red dot sights is significantly smaller, lighter, more unobtrusive. Among them are: Docter Red Dot; Trijicon Red Dot; Ultradot L/T; Burris Fastfire. These devices also allow through-lens-view of target, and they automatically adjust dot intensity according to ambient light.

The devices are significantly lighter than conventional devices and most reflex devices. None should have trouble with recoil dislodging device from mount system. They mount via Weaver system, so mounting is no sweat. Since the devices are mounted predominantly on semiautomatic pistols, it is likely that recoil from my 480s will prove no problem.

Staying mounted is not a complete solution to the recoil problem. Whether the device will withstand recoil of .480 Ruger ammunition is a different question. I am unqualified to verify that recoil of M1911 pistols is so closely comparable with SRH's that the problem I perceive exists only in my mind.

The sights are more expensive than most conventional red dot devices. Materials of manufacture vary significantly. Some are plastic with Acrylic® lenses. Some are aluminum with optical glass lenses. Some of the optical glass is low-end, BaK-7 in binocular-speak, but I doubt this is significant for a device whose effective range would be less than 150 meters.

And red dot size varies from a smallest of 3.5 MOA to 8 MOA. This may be the place to decide among these devices.

I live 'way out there, in western Montana. I made a trip to Missoula to examine sights. A couple of manufacturers have dealers there. Bupkes! Nothing! I did manage to handle a Nikon Monarch with selectable multiple dot size. At 73 yards (the distance to the far wall, according to staffer) I had some trouble with 4 MOA, little trouble with 6 MOA, and no trouble with 8 MOA dots. Unfortunately, this was nowhere near a valid test of my ability to use these dot sizes. I was hand holding the device and had to "search" for the dot because I was not holding the device correctly toward my target. Lighting in the store was not representative of dawn and dusk. And the target was easy to identify rather than partially concealed or camouflaged.

Can those who use red dots answer the question: For use with a Super Redhawk .480 Ruger, what single dot size will be easiest to use from off-the-muzzle through 80 meters?
***
Trijicon and Docter Red Dot sights require the device to be removed from its base to change battery. Will these remount with essentially no loss of zero? So far, I cannot obtain an answer to this from manufacturers or distributors.

As a class, these devices do not have the warranties that conventional scope-like red dot sights have. Ultradot has not responded to my query, so I do not know whether their standard warranty applies to the L/T. Trijicon's Red Dot has a lifetime warranty. But their lens is Acrylic®. When I asked about replacing a scratched lens -- Acrylic® scratches much more easily than optical glass -- the reply was double-speak.

quote:

Trijicon and Docter Red Dot sights require the device to be removed from its base to change battery. Will these remount with essentially no loss of zero? So far, I cannot obtain an answer to this from manufacturers or distributors.

For me, battery changes are followed by laser boresighting, then 3-5 rounds. Never gotten them back on exactly the same, close but never quite the same POI. Sure would be nicer, though, if they made them with integral rail mounts like everybody else in the business though I've seen sloppy integral rail mounts on some of the others, especially lower end stuff, that never seemed to reset on the gun exactly the same also... Nice sights though.

The Ultradot is guaranteed for life. bfrshooter has a couple and they have withstood the recoil of many rounds of .45/70 and .475 Linebaugh. I just got my Ultradot 30 in the mail today and will mount it on my Super Redhawk in .475 LInebaugh this weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
The Ultradot is guaranteed for life. bfrshooter has a couple and they have withstood the recoil of many rounds of .45/70 and .475 Linebaugh.

I've got the makings of a .375H&H Contender barrel ordered and am contemplating an Ultradot but the Trijicon seems happy with the .450/.45-70 BFR recoil levels so far...time will tell (as will wallet when it's ordering time).

Tom, how much does the Trijicom cost that you are looking at?

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
The Ultradot is guaranteed for life. bfrshooter has a couple and they have withstood the recoil of many rounds of .45/70 and .475 Linebaugh.

I've got the makings of a .375H&H Contender barrel ordered and am contemplating an Ultradot but the Trijicon seems happy with the .450/.45-70 BFR recoil levels so far...time will tell (as will wallet when it's ordering time).

I did not know you could get a 375 H&H barrel for a Contender?????? Encore yes, but not in a contender.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
The Ultradot is guaranteed for life. bfrshooter has a couple and they have withstood the recoil of many rounds of .45/70 and .475 Linebaugh.

I've got the makings of a .375H&H Contender barrel ordered and am contemplating an Ultradot but the Trijicon seems happy with the .450/.45-70 BFR recoil levels so far...time will tell (as will wallet when it's ordering time).

Tom & Whitworth: Ultradot 30 is a scope-like sight while L/T and Trijicon Red Dot are not. Does Ultradot warranty apply across the product line, or is L/T's warranty less inclusive?
Here are examples of the sight family to which I refer.

Naphtali -- while the Ultradot looks like a scope sight, it actually is a red dot and does not magnify at all.

One of the key issues for me is the ability of the chosen red dot/scope/holo sight to be able to withstand the recoil levels generated by some of these calibers such as my .475 Linebaugh. The Ultradot can take a tremendous ammount of abuse.

I believe the warranty covers their entire line, but you can check their website: www.ultradotwest.com

Welcome to the site, Naphtali!

I have used EoTechs on 40 S&W raceguns, a 41Mag S&W M57, AR15s, and a compound bow.

No problems with any of them.

Have taken deer with them at ranges up to 65 yards. Used a Leupold 2x on the S&W to take a doe at 124 yards.

Sent a 553 to the Sandbox with my youngest son.

Good stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Tom, how much does the Trijicom cost that you are looking at?

I've seen for around 800 for what I'd really like but there's stuff in the 400 range too.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

I did not know you could get a 375 H&H barrel for a Contender?????? Encore yes, but not in a contender.

You can make one from a super heavy contoured barrel blank. That's the current plan. Hope to end up with it at about 8.5lbs scoped and with a round in it.

tom -- the Ultradot 30 is $135.00 shipped. I got mine yesterday.......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
tom -- the Ultradot 30 is $135.00 shipped. I got mine yesterday.......

S'pose if I break it it's no worse than a couple tanks of gas in the truck these days. Shall keep that in mind.

You need to talk to bfrshooter -- he has literally shot thousands of rounds (.475 L) over his and it has held up admirably. Just seems like a lot of bang for the buck.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

I did not know you could get a 375 H&H barrel for a Contender?????? Encore yes, but not in a contender.

You can make one from a super heavy contoured barrel blank. That's the current plan. Hope to end up with it at about 8.5lbs scoped and with a round in it.

Is the contender frame going to be able to handle the force of the 375 H&H??

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

I did not know you could get a 375 H&H barrel for a Contender?????? Encore yes, but not in a contender.

You can make one from a super heavy contoured barrel blank. That's the current plan. Hope to end up with it at about 8.5lbs scoped and with a round in it.

Is the contender frame going to be able to handle the force of the 375 H&H??

BIG muzzle brake and first shots will be in test chamber. Dunno. It'll either work, stretch the frame badly, or fail spectacularly. It's not THAT high pressure of a round but it's beyond the upper limit of what most would consider rational. I'll give you that. Might end up like one of Mike Bellm's that popped open and spectacularly "auto-ejected" cartridges.

Mike's done one with a 16" barrel. Reckon I'll be ok as long as I'm careful in my measures. It's about mid-page.

So the experience described pertains to tubular red dot sights, ones that resemble superficially a scope sight? No one has used the class of red dot sights I identified previously?

If this is accurate, . . . bummer.

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:
So the experience described pertains to tubular red dot sights, ones that resemble superficially a scope sight? No one has used the class of red dot sights I identified previously?

If this is accurate, . . . bummer.

Nope, as above, have and do use trijicons of an entirely non-tubular nature. Have various versions of them currently on 3 rifles and one BFR. Might add, I've never met a trijicon product I've disliked or had problems with yet.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:
. . . have and do use trijicons of an entirely non-tubular nature. Have various versions of them currently on 3 rifles and one BFR. Might add, I've never met a trijicon product I've disliked or had problems with yet.

How scratch resistant is Trijicon Red Dot's Acrylic® lens?

How efficient -- reasonable and timely -- is their service?

Trijicon sells/distributes Trijicon and Docter Red Dot sights. Any experience with Docter's version?

Is the Trijicon Red Dot identical -- same manufacturer -- as JPoint?

I have been referred to Pride Fowler, Inc.'s Rapid Reticle Special Ops Compact Sight. I queried them but have not yet received a reply.

The information on their web page Rapid Reticle sight shows it to be what I want. The 5 MOA red dot is at the lower edge of "acceptable." Sight has three power positions: Off, Automatic (adjusts to ambient light), and On (full red dot brightness). Battery changes without dismounting sight from mount. Optical glass lens rather than Acrylic®. Waterproof rather than water resistant. And this statement of durability: Tested on 44-magnum, 454 Casull, 500 S&W, 12Ga shotgun with slugs and 00B, MP-5's, 9x21's, Glock 9MM and airguns. One of our test sights did not lose its zero after 7,000 rounds fired from a Glock 9MM pistol.

Don't know about Super Redhawk mounting system. Don't know about warranty/service. Don't know country of manufacture -- I avoid products made in Red China unless there is no alternative.