How do you rate the .357 Mag in standard factory loadings for whitetails?

I have hunted with good success for years with the .41 and more so with the .44, but have been somewhat on the fence about leaving them at home and taking along the Model 27 instead. I've carried it before, but a deer never saw fit to present itself for a shot when armed with it. It's a 6 incher and no scope. I'm also not a handloader.

What has been the experience here?

I shot a hill country doe in Tx back about 15 years ago with a 158 SWC, and my father took a nice seven point with the same bullet the following year. They will kill, no doubt, but there are better handgun rounds for the job... The biggest problem is with a wound channel. A SWC is going to cut a single caliber wide wound channel through the animal, and that is only 3/8" at best. If you don't see the animal fall, it takes some pretty good tracking skills.

If its all I had and I could get close enough to a deer, I wouldn't hesitate. However, there's lots of if's in that statement. And when I say close, I'm talking archery range.

A .357 isn't exactly underpowered, but I'd still have to think its a little bit light for deer hunting. My idea of hunting one quick, clean shot for an instant, humane kill. I love my Model 19, but I'm awfully afraid I'd be more apt to wound a deer than kill one with a .357.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
I shot a hill country doe in Tx back about 15 years ago with a 158 SWC, and my father took a nice seven point with the same bullet the following year. They will kill, no doubt, but there are better handgun rounds for the job... The biggest problem is with a wound channel. A SWC is going to cut a single caliber wide wound channel through the animal, and that is only 3/8" at best. If you don't see the animal fall, it takes some pretty good tracking skills.

Two deer a year apart with the same boolit????Must of been triple hard cast!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
I shot a hill country doe in Tx back about 15 years ago with a 158 SWC, and my father took a nice seven point with the same bullet the following year. They will kill, no doubt, but there are better handgun rounds for the job... The biggest problem is with a wound channel. A SWC is going to cut a single caliber wide wound channel through the animal, and that is only 3/8" at best. If you don't see the animal fall, it takes some pretty good tracking skills.

Two deer a year apart with the same boolit????Must of been triple hard cast!!!!

at a real looooooow velocity.......

Deer aren't that hard to kill -- think skinned, not that heavily boned. The .357 will get it done. On tougher, thicker skinned game, I would go bigger -- a lot bigger. But that's just me.

I use handloaded 180 grain Remington hollow nose softs (those with the scalloped jacket) in my 10 inch 357 Magnum Contender barrel. Using Speer Contender/Heavy Frame Revolver data this load starts at 1500 fps (and shoots into two inches at 100 yards with a 2x scope). I expect your N-frame is one of the Heavy Frames Speer was talking about. You'll give up some velocity with the shorter tube and cylinder gap. I suppose I'd be comfortable with most any 180 gr factory load at archery range but, unlike my 43s and 45s, I'd prefer some expansion to seal the deal.

I guess I'm better at archery than I am with a pistol using those parameters I guess. I just think that, as most state here, the .357 is a "MARGINAL" round for deer. Neither deer nor bullets read, however, and I'd never have gone hunting whitetails with a .32-20 like James Jordan used when he shot his phenomenal buck. I know I'm spoiled in having other options available to me and the .357 will be the last one I'd use on deer for legal hunting.

All I will add to this thread is, I have killed a few deer with my 357 Mag using 158 gr. hard cast bullets. I kept my shots under 40 yards and that was it. But I prefer larger holes...

Has anyone used the Barnes 140GR XPB?

It would give the expansion but would it be too light?

I would use the factory 158gr speer gold dot cartridge myself. Good amount of controlled expansion and its bonded to stay together for decent penetration...but would limit the distance to under 75yds and be picky about shot placement.

Man, you guys... It was another bullet cast out of the same mould, therefore, essentially the same bullet. Not the same projectile, the same bullet... Idiots!!!

smalliest i like to use is 41 mag i've shot a few deer with 357 with marginal results probally bullet selection but enough to make me go bigger

Now Doubless, why we gotta be idiots I can't help you didn't 'splain it right

Redhawk shoots better than I do, but I still wouldn't want to shoot one over about 25 yards with a .357. The energy of that thing can't be much about 700 pounds at 40 yards I'd think. Anyway, that's always a reason to buy another gun, isn't it

Having done so with a 357 my caveats are these...

Don't do so with less than a 6" barrel, velocity drop puts it on the overly anemic side. Also the sight radius on a 4" pistol blows for hunting much past 20 yds.

Use a good bullet that expands in the vitals and goes out the other side. The olden days left me using 125 gr JHPs, these days I would look towards the Barnes XPB or Nosler Partition HG bullets.

Load them up with the highest velocity you can get and still have the brass eject. I would skip factory ammo as most have bullets designed for man stops, not deer hunting.

Keep the range under 30 yds.

I would recommend the 41 over the 357, much better on deer for a minimal increase in recoil/noise.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Man, you guys... It was another bullet cast out of the same mould, therefore, essentially the same bullet. Not the same projectile, the same bullet... Idiots!!!

Hey, I've been called worse!

Here is Cor-Bon's load in about as stiff an off-the-shelf .357 as I can find as advertised for deer. It's what I would use probably - https://dakotaammo.net/shop/pr...22_53&products_id=80.

But, for the reasons here stated I'm also reluctant on the .357. The main problem is while you wind up with a dead deer, my idea of same is where it's one shot and the deer travels only 18" further...straight down.

Anyway, I have noticed that with the .44 Mag in the stiffer factory loads (like Cor-Bon's 1450 fps and Hornady's 1350 fps) there seems to be a very slight margin for error. A liver shot for instance will drop one instantly and it doesn't get up (very unusual for me, but do we all make perfect shots every time?). Anyway, will the .357 do that? I don't know.

Go bigger---problem solved!

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Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Man, you guys... It was another bullet cast out of the same mould, therefore, essentially the same bullet. Not the same projectile, the same bullet... Idiots!!!

Hey, I've been called worse!

And by better...lol

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Go bigger---problem solved!

I could not agree more....

I have used the .357 for deer in the past, and after having one run about two miles after being hit, I think if I hand gun hunt again.....it will be with a .44mag at the minimum.

don't under estimate the 41 mag

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Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Man, you guys... It was another bullet cast out of the same mould, therefore, essentially the same bullet. Not the same projectile, the same bullet... Idiots!!!

Hey, I've been called worse!

And by better...lol

Yes indeed!

I have killed several at 25 yards or less using 158 grain xtp's with a max powder charge. I would not shoot a deer further than 30 yards with it.

quote:

Originally posted by TBEAR99:
don't under estimate the 41 mag

Or the .500 Linebaugh.........

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by TBEAR99:
don't under estimate the 41 mag

Or the .500 Linebaugh.........

Lets not forget the little 475 Linebaugh or 510 GNR..

Amen to that!

Funny how times change, my grandfather loved the 25-20,38-40 and 32-20.

Never thought he was at a disadvantage on whitetail, he shot most at 50 to 80 yds or so.

When my cousin brought out a .357 and popped one at about 35 yds with a cor-lokt and opened up a crater; He railed about "wastin' meat with that cannon".

I think the real issue in using a .357 is range and shot placement as with most caliber issues.

Grandad didn't live long enough to see my .44, 475, or 500.

Can imagine what he'd say though---

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Funny how times change, my grandfather loved the 25-20,38-40 and 32-20.

Never thought he was at a disadvantage on whitetail, he shot most at 50 to 80 yds or so.

When my cousin brought out a .357 and popped one at about 35 yds with a cor-lokt and opened up a crater; He railed about "wastin' meat with that cannon".

I think the real issue in using a .357 is range and shot placement as with most caliber issues.

Grandad didn't live long enough to see my .44, 475, or 500.

Can imagine what he'd say though---

Hard cast bullets in the heart or lungs does not destroy much at all, you can almost eat up to the hole....

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

Hard cast bullets in the heart or lungs does not destroy much at all, you can almost eat up to the hole....

you missed all the recent lead danger threads I see

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

Hard cast bullets in the heart or lungs does not destroy much at all, you can almost eat up to the hole....

you missed all the recent lead danger threads I see

Hell if they were true I would be dead by now..

The problem is there are two levels of the 357's. The original strength and large framed guns that can take 45kpsi, and the later small framed weaker guns that are limited to 30kpsi.

In the older guns, loaded to it's potential with good bullets the 357 is a sure killer. In the weaker guns loaded with hp's that don't have enough velocity to expand, or heavy cast bullets with small meplats, it isn't as capable.

And ultimately it comes down to shot placement. Place em right, and the animal is yours. Place it wrong and the gun is suddenly under powered. Of course if you use a big magnum and pull the shot, it is the recoil that is to blame.

SOMETIMES I think using the terms "shot placement" is over utilized. That should be a given for anyone who hunts ethically. I know of several guys who've poached whitetails their whole lives (been locked up more than a few times but gotten away with it many more) and they never used anything larger than a .22 long rifle. They claim it's the deadliest gun out there and that a deer shot in the lungs seldom goes over 100 yards. They brag about shots up to 100 yards with a silly little .22 and claim most times the deer don't even run because at that distance, the sound is muted and they think they've been stung by something. I'd never try it but I don't have any reasons to doubt those crooks.

Credible crooks, huh George?! LOL!

Let's assume we're talking legal hunting only and weapons that will produce immediate results and no following up blood for up to 100 yards, if you can find any in the deep woods and tangled undergrowth.

How does that C-B round linked above sound? It's 180 grains @1200. The energy is a little less than 600. Do you think the deer drops to the shot on a standard sideways rib cage shot at up to 40 yards? Or maybe not?

Forget energy. It's a function of diameter and penetration. The former it doesn't have much of, but if it has enough penetration to get to the vitals, you're in business.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
Let's assume we're talking...weapons that will produce immediate results and no following up blood...

Do you think the deer drops to the shot on a standard sideways rib cage shot at up to 40 yards? Or maybe not?

In my experience with...

.224 64 gr
.244 80 & 100 gr
.308 125, 150, 180, & 220 gr
.358 180 gr
.429 180, 240, & 320 gr
.452 300 & 325 gr
.458 405 gr
.530 roundball
.600 roundball

...at ranges from 5 to 270 yards unless you hit upper leg bones, shoulder bones, the spine or the brainpan the lowliest whitetail to a blue wildebeest bull shot through both lungs (and the heart as often as not) is good for a short dash of 20-50 yards. That said the larger the projectile the larger the blood trail. With the 43s and above the blood trail looks like it was laid out with a bucket. YMMV

I have taken deer with a .44 and a .454 but if I were going to use a .357 I would go with a hard cast and enough velocity to punch him through both lungs.

Good luck and practice a lot.