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I recently sold my 7.5" SRH in .454 Casull to one of my friends and Gave him the ammo for the gun as well. This included some of Double Tap's 400gr ammo. I talked to my friend yesterday and he said that he has began wearing a glove to shoot it with  , but told me that the bullets were falling out of the brass due tothe recoil. Is this the manufacturers fault for not putting a good crimp on the bullet? I think he is going to stick with the Hornady ammo from now on. "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | ||
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I've seen heavy recoilers jump crimp before. I have shot a lot of that particular load out of mine and never had any issues like crimp jumping. My suggestion is to call Mike McNett at Double Tap and talk to him. Hornady ammo is a poor substitute for a 400 grain WFN if he plans on hunting with it. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Crimp has very little holding power. It is case tension that holds in the boolits. I shoot awful heavy loads and boolits with a medium crimp with no problems. The guy might be "limp wristing" the gun and showing off how far back it can come without cracking the skull. It is the same as shooting a 1911 that way so cases will not cycle. That makes the boolit inertia effect worse. Maybe he should learn to restrict the recoil. He has created an impact boolit puller!  I can't see Double Tap making bad ammo. | |||
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This goes to the old Cast versus Jacketed debate for hunting.The Hornady XTP Mag is one of the toughest jacketed bullets out there for the 454 Casull.I love to break up bullets on rocks and the Hornady stayed together out of my .454. The 454 already has the velocity of the 45-70 Goverment SAAMI loads or close to it and we all no what there jacketed bullets can and have done.Even though I am shooting Cast out of my BFR right now,I am probaly going to change to jacketed with the 300 Unicore for play and the Nosler for hunting..18-1900 fps with the Nosler is the same as the old factory Nosler load from Winchester with the Nosler Combined Technology..I can't remember it now.  As far as jumping the crimp,it can happen but it never has on me with the factory crimp die. Jayco | |||
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There are TWO things to deal with with heavy recoil revolvers - crimp and bullet grip.If the bullet is not being gripped enough get a smaller expander die. | |||
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Whats the difference between crimp and bullet crimp?If you full length resize your brass then apply the factory(Lee Crimp) the bullet bulges in the brass from the base of the bullet to the crimp. Here is a thought from M.L. McPherson on the .454 Casull handloading and factory fodder.
Jayco | |||
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I don't question the XTP's toughness, my whole point was that an expanding bullet is neither necessary (it's already making a .45 caliber hole), nor will it pentrate as deeply as a good hardcast flat-nosed bullet of significant weight -- that's what I meant. Sorry for the thread hijack! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I agree with bfrshooter. Case tension is probably more important then crimp. But in something like the 454 you need both to be right. My guess is that double tap ran into a batch of brass that wasnt as good as usual. Theres a big differnce in case tension between different brands of brass. tired old brass will do the same. I will only use good once fired brass for hunting loads in the real heavy recoiling guns. It may be an anal thing on my part but a hunting situation is the wrong time to have a gun jump crimp. I wouldnt blame limp wristing on it. In the field and under pressure a gun should work no matter how you hold it. that especially applys to 1911s that may be used to proctect your life. Your 1911 should work every time whether you hold it right hold it upside down, sideways, hold it tight or hold it loose. If it doesnt your gun needs work. | |||
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But they won't. Many semi's will fail to operate if held too loose. Instead of the slide moving back by itself, the whole gun comes back with the slide. This is even hard on a scope on a hard kicker. Free recoil is not good! | |||
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The whole reason I put this thread up is to let the problem be known. I wouldnt want a brown bear chasing me and shoot and miss while running with the first shot, then find out the rest of my bullets fell out of the cylinder and my primers are burning loose powder in the cylinder  "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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My experience on black bears is that I want a JHP I want to see a reaction from my shot other than a full out run into heavy bush. I find with an XTP-Mag or a Gold Dot out of my 454 Casull's that the bears react by biting itself and spinning around when I hit the same size a bear with a hard cast WLNGC it disappears into the thickest bush in seconds. Sometimes I'm not even sure if the shot was good. | |||
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I can't say the same thing, I know when I pull the trigger the bullet went were I was aiming. I don't need to see the reaction to know my bullet found it's mark. Another thing, no two animals will react exactly the same way when shot. I don't think this is a good indication of bullet performance.  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Y'all need to perform necropsies on the game you shoot with a hardcast bullet with a big meplat. They don't just punch a clean hole through the game. They produce a BIG wound channel with lots of damage, and they break bones in a manner that hollow-points don't in my experience. I like hollow-points in small caliber rifles, but find expanding bullets completely unecessary with big-bore revolvers considering the caliber you are starting with. JMHO. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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WOW I shoot a lot and can't always tell where my shot went you must be good or only shoot short distances... | |||
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No, I have made quit a few longer distance kill with my handguns, my furthest was a little over 100 yards. I practice a lot and know, if I do my part the gun will do it's part. Also my point was, you will never get two animals to react the same way, even if you shoot them both in the same spot, with the same bullet. Judging bullet performance by animal reaction is just not the best way to judge how a bullet performs. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Didn't mean to come across that I was questioning your abilities I also shoot a lot and know that no matter how well I make a shot the animal could move or the shot could be off for whatever reason. Let me try and clear up what I am saying... I didn't say I don't use or understand the capabilities of a wide meplat hard cast bullet I said on black bears I don't generally use them. When I am in grizzly country I don't use HP's but load up with Beartooth WFNGC's from 355gr to 405gr in my 454 Casull's so if a black bear comes along I use what is loaded in my guns. I was specifically refering too hunting black bears they are contrary to what some believe an easy animal to kill and do not need the pass thru capabilities of a hard cast. Yes I have shot & killed many black bears... Look were I live we have more black bears here than almost anywhere else in the world. | |||
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No problem here moki.. I was referring to the reaction of game mostly. But I do favor hard cast bullet to JHP's even on black bear, deer and hogs. I just don't see a need to change bullets, when one can do it all. I also don't have to find another load. . If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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I'm the same way. I find THE load that works, and I stick with it. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Now wheres the fun in that... | |||
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Anytime you are useing extremely heavy bullets in a heavy kicker, jumping crimp is always a possabily. Never leave a round in the cylinder for mor than 4 shots and then it fires on the fith shot, is my rule. All of the heavy full pwer loads with very heavy bullets suffer from this malady _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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