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Just how effective is the ACP really? One of my sons decided he wanted an auto pistol and was trying to decide between a .45 & .40, ultimately deciding on the .45. When we went to shop the guy behind the counter asked a viable question: What are you planning to use it for? He answered, pretty much whatever, it's my first pistol and I want something I can carry when we go bowhunting and just for general protection. The lecture that followed can be summed up as 1. The .45 ACP isn't a woods gun and would do nothing but piss off a bear.(recommended a .44mag) 2. the 9mm would be cheaper fun but better yet get a .22LR. I understand his line of thinking but also disagree with trying to steer him toward a wheelgun he's not interested in. Ammo for a bigger magnum wouldn't be cheap at all. So fun shooting would be limited. Resulting in less practice & familiarity. Would a .45 ACP be totally pointless for defense in the woods? Two legged vermin are more trouble than four legged ones in my opinion, and carrying something is better than nothing. What are your thoughts? What have you shot with a .45 ACP? | ||
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The .45 acp is proven. While it wouldn't be my choice for hunting, it certainly will be more than adequate for self defense. | |||
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Used within it's parameters and the shooters yes it can be effective. If that's what he wants,and the concern is 2 legged and maybe wildlife up to blackies, yes no problem with good ammo. I've seen several deer as well as black bear taken with the 45acp.Plan to shoot up a few white-tails with one myself this year. With this load SKU: 45-255/20 .45 ACP +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo .45 ACP +P Ammo - 255 gr. Hard Cast FN (925 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box I wouldn't have any worries about anything in the eastern US. "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy | |||
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+ 1 "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Loaded with the Mihec 270 SAA-HP, it will take a deer as good as a 44 Magnum at 70 yards. Ask me how I know  | |||
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 kind of look tough too | |||
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Record PA black bear is 900 lbs !!  If you insist on shooting bear use a bullet that penetrates well. Or throw down a bacon sandwich and run very fast . Attacks by black bear are rare .Loud noise , muzzle blast or loud whistle , bear spray usually work. You're much more likely to be attacked by feral dogs. | |||
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That sounds to me like he's interested in "secondary hunting" use (meaning finishing shots at point blank) and self defense and maybe woods or farm plinking action. That's to say, rather than using the handgun as the primary stopper for big game. Like where you're expecting a 50 yd one shot "bang flop" kill on a moving target without having to get the bow or rifle involved. Given a limited use like that, either the 40 or 45 acp will be just fine. I rate the 44 magnum more as a primary hunting weapon. Btw, I saw that mete mentioned wild dogs (and throw in coyotes too). Trust me there, by FAR the best way for that is a shotgun. They are too fast, agile and too small a target for any handgun when they start that circling you and are serious about it, unless you're a fantastic shot. | |||
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I'd rather hunt with a 45 ACP than a 40 S&W, but then I'd rather hunt with a 10MM than a 45. Either way, I think giving a neophite a 44 Magnum for a first pistol is like buying a new rifle shooter a 458 Lott for a first rifle. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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A 45acp is rarely a single-purpose weapon. Whether a Glock or a 1911, they're fun to shoot, make a big hole, extremely easy to reload, and work great on two-legged problems. Ammo is getting a bit spendy if you don't reload. In the unlikely event a black bear comes back to give him a piece of his mind, a 45acp will work. We had a mushroom picker here dump a predatory 400lb bear - with his 1911. The bear got 8 holes in him and gave up the chase, wandered away and died. Necropsy showed only 2 rounds made it into the vitals, but that was enough. We rarely ever get bears that big - an old boar. A single purpose weapon like the S&W329pd would work better for the bear, but cost goes up, shooting fun goes down, etc. Well, at least have an OK day  | |||
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I'm curious as to what cartridge was used to take this record bear. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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My son's fired my .40, .357, 38 super so he's not uninitiated to handguns. Honestly, I think having a handgun for wolves & mtn lion is worth the consideration. Two legged vermin are always a possibility. I just have never shot anything but paper with a .45 and was thinking it would be a pretty solid handgun. Bear spray is effective somewhere around 95% of the time. Pistols are effective only about half the time on bears. So if we are packing meat out the spray will be hany for sure. We can't "finish off" with any firearm if it is an archery animal. But, wolf & cougar as well as black bear seasons are open during archery seasons for deer and elk here so if one gets up close and personal a handgun would be nice to have. The wolves come to elk calls like coyotes to squeelin' rabbits. OK, maybe not quite as enthusiastically, but several bowhunters had run in's with wolves last year. We'll be carrying tags just in case. | |||
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A 1911 in 45 ACP is my favorite handgun. A S&W in 44 Mag is my second favorite. While the 44 Mag is "mo betta" in bear country IMHO, I have carried a 1911 in 45 ACP in bear country many times. When doing so I prefer to use the Buffalo Bore 230gr FP +P. I think it would shoot through the skull of a bear, no problem. But I will admit I have carried standard 230gr ball as well. I say if he wants a 45 ACP as his first handgun, then let him do it. My first handgun was a S&W Mod 41 in 22LR, quickly followed by an accurized Colt 1911 in 45 ACP. I was in the 9th Grade... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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A 45 acp will kill lots of things. But it is really hard to beat a good revolver in 357,41 or 44 mag for woods running. When I had a lot fewer handguns to chose from my 4.inch 357 went every where. I have shot a coyote at 32 yards with my 2inch 38 after running a half a mile. Then I shot another one at 48 yards with my 3913 9mm while bow hunting. Both were double action frist round head shots. Thats said the last few times I've been in the woods it been with my Ti 41 mag or my P90 45acp. I dought any thing that would have given me trouble would have like getting shot by one or the other. | |||
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I killed a Whitetail Doe with a .45acp a few years ago but I was directly above her in a bow blind and just did it to do it. It was NOT bow season, I was just hunting from a bow blind. I shot her between the shoulder blades and she dropped like a bag of hammers. The Hunt goes on forever, the season never ends. I didn't learn this by reading about it or seeing it on TV. I learned it by doing it. | |||
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If you want penetration,try these.They fly good in every 1911 I have tried.I cannot vouch for what they do on large game,but would think they would be just dandy!!! http://www.missouribullet.com/...egory=5&secondary=13 | |||
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I used to carry a Ruger Super Redhawk 7-1/2" barrel 44mag. while rifle hunting. Just got too heavy carrying while rifle hunting. Now I carry a Springfield XDM 45acp with 14rds. of Winchester PDX1 230gr. bonded bullets in the gun and 2 spare magazines of 26rds. If I was primary hunting with handgun I would get the 44mag. But for a carry gun a 45acp will do just fine. | |||
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Have you added up the weight of pistol and extra ammo I don't think you gained much of a weight saving unless you carried that much 44mag ammo. Thats close to 2 lbs of 45acp ammo. | |||
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XDM 45acp is still fully loaded is lighter then the Super Redhawk and have more capacity. | |||
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Things are what they are. The 45ACP in not realy a hunting round. The 45 Colt and 44 Mag are better choices. Snake | |||
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I have killed two deer with a 1911 in 45 ACP, one whitetail buck and one Mule deer buck. It worked ok but it wasw not near as impressive as the deer I have killed with a 44 Mag. I have killed turkey with a 1911, worked great for him. I have shot some deer and pigs with the 1911 as finishing shots, usually head shots, worked great for that. I have also killed several grouse, squirrels, rabbits and snakes with 45 ACP CCI/Speer shotshells. They seem just as effective to me as the 44 Mag shotshells. They will function in many 1911's 100%. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I'll throw in a twist. You can get 460 Rowland conversion barrels/recoil spring for the XD 45, 1911 platform, Glock 21 and Glock 30. That takes you up to 44 mag power. That said, it isn't a 44, and bullet selection is a bit limited. But you can't argue with a 230gr bullet at 1400fps. It is a potent round. So you get a 45 ACP for cheap fun practice, and when you want/need it you swap in the higher horsepower. Jeremy | |||
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Plus side of that is you can shoot 45acp init after the conversion is done. Kinda like 38spl and 357mag. or 44spl. and 44mag. | |||
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Totally agree..... I cary mine afield often  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Tell me more about the 460 Rowland conversion please! | |||
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+2 because everything in the Eastern U.S. is a sissy  | |||
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http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/5001078901/p/1 | |||
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Wild West in Anchorage, Clark Custom (for 1911 conversions), and 460Rowland.com are sources for conversions and info. Wild West is who I called to set my dad up with his XD45 barrel. He likes the setup quite a bit. If you do a 1911, stay with a quality frame like a Springfield, Baer, STI, Caspian, etc. No Phillipine frames (AutoOrd, Rock Island) or WWII era frames. They are too soft. Jeremy | |||
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I am a handloader so I don't know what is out there in factory stuff, but I have yet to see a 1911-style 45 that won't shoot the Lyman 452424 hard cast bullet loaded in the ACP case. I am sure there are some, but I have yet to see one. Having said that, assuming the round would feed and chamber, even at 800 fps there isn't much it wouldn't shoot all the way through, other than the big stuff like brown bears, moose, elk, etc. Pigs, whitetails and black bears would have a really bad day, I think. | |||
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This really interests me as practice ammo can be bought for about what it can be reloaded for w/o the time invested. On Clarks web site though it says it's not recommended for their conversion kit.?  Still trying to decide. The .38 Super in my G'vt mdl may be worth more selling it off and starting with a different frame. | |||
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Here is some information on the 460 Rowland. http://460rowland.com/about/ | |||
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Sounds like he wants a 45. If so, he should buy that wonderful handgun. It will do for what he wants. He will end up shooting more paper with it than everything else combined. As a self defense weapon it has no equal. That said, he may want to consider a .357mag., 4" barrelled revolver. Better penetration for bears. At pistol energy levels, it's penetration that matters. Excellent self defense weapon, perhaps the best for those that don't train regularly. Load .38 wadcutters and it's fun to plink with. Another great option is the Ruger Blackhawk convertible in .45LC/.45acp.. You can carry hot .45 lc loads for bear and shoot .45 acp for everything else.. The convertible in .357mag/9mm gives you the benefit of the .357 mentioned above yet allows cheap 9mm for practice. Just some thoughts. Tanzania in 2006! Had 141 posts on prior forum as citori3. | |||
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This is very true It is a fine Defensive round There are better hunting rounds It may take some training to learn to shoot Snake | |||
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Norman Solberg International lawyer back in the US after 25 years and, having met a few of the bad guys and governments here and around the world, now focusing on private trusts that protect wealth from them. NRA Life Member for 50 years, NRA Endowment Member from 2014, NRA Patron from 2016. | |||
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Ask Geedubya about the effectiveness of the 45acp on pissed-off wild boars! I carry a 45 for self defense. Were I to rely on a pistol as back up while hunting I'd probably get one that can handle a steady diet of full power 10mm. We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
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I've shot deer with a .40 and some hot reloads. I have a G30 and wouldn't feel undergunned to tramp through the wilds with it as far as bad guys and critters go. I would probably carry some warm handloads for it in the wilds and some Federal HST 230 +P in the city. 11 shots with a gun that's not that heavy wins for me and I love that G30. I put a KKM barrel on it and it helped the reload functioning and the accuracy. | |||
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The ACP with the riight bullets is an effective deer round. If one can recommend the ACP for self defense against a heavy clothed 275 pound dangerous 2 legged attacker, then it will certainly take a 150 pound whittail _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Very true... But for a bear is would want something more... A hot 45 Colt or a 480R Snake | |||
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If you intend to use a pistol/revolver for hunting purposes too, I would rate 10mm as a minimum. The easiest way is to buy the reliable Glock 20. The downside is the thicker grip. But you have sufficient firepower if needed. The 45 ACP is fine for self defence especially against two legged intruders but for hunting it does not have enough power or the trajectory. CZ | |||
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