What is the heaviest bullet you have loaded your .454 Casull with, and how did it work on game? I don't reload, so I'm forced to buy factory loads. Bought some Buffalo Bore 360 grain loads and have found that Double Tap loads some 400 grain ammo. Thanks.

Thats a (forgive the pun) loaded question.
The reason I say that is because the Fredom Arms ,454 was designed to shoot lighter bullets. It has a 1 in 24 twist. In mine I shoot 300 grain hornady xtp mags@ 1675 fps.
I like heavy hard cast bullets in a revolver and in my redhawk .45 I shoot a 375 gr, hard cast.

My FA .454 won't stabilize these heavy bullets. The good news is that with there bored through cylinder the jacketed bullets shoot very well in my .454.
in my .45 redhawk I have opened up the cylinder throats .002 thousants over boar diameter and I belive that this gun has 1 in 16 twist. This gives me excelent accuraqcy and a bunch of power. The bullet I shoot in this gun is a 375 gr wfn. I got this mold from a freind and it's a custom made one of a kind.

I have a 420 gr GC mold that casts a WLN bullet that I have shot but haven't taken any game with it. I just had it made as a fun thing to do.
I shot it mainly in my 4 3/4 incher FA.
The Encore has a 1-16 twist so it will work with bullets up to 515 gr as I have shot bullets for my 45/70 sized down and seated out for 1350 fps.
That duplicates the original 45/70 BP load except it is out of a 12 inch barrel.

Thats good info for my friend that has the .454. We find the Freedom .475 is also rifled for lighter bullets, shooting best at 350 gr's. The twist is 1 in 18. 400 gr's and up will not stabilize and most cast boolits at 400 gr's and up won't fit in the gun.
You just have to find what the guns like and stay with it.
I love the Freedoms but have been critical of their choices in twist rates and cylinder lengths. If you want extreme accuracy and a wonderful gun and can live with the limitations, buy a Freedom. If you need very heavy boolits along with super accuracy, buy a BFR. The ideal is to have some of each! Each is built for a different purpose.

I should have added that my revolver is a 7 1/2-inch SRH. The heaviest bullets I have shot through it were 320 grains and the accuracy was outstanding. But I'm more interested in heavier bullets and less velocity. Don't know what the twist of the SRH barrel is.

Now that makes things more interesting! Yes, try heavier boolits. Try the 335 gr LBT and work up in boolit weight. I can't find the twist rate but I think it is faster then the 1 in 24" that Freedom uses. Freedom is bound by their cylinder length and rifles for boolits that fit. E mail Ruger for the rate or measure it as close as you can with a cleaning rod.

I have a Taurus RB in 454 and have shot some 405's loaded way too fast, but they would not stabilize and left big key holes in the target. It does seem to shoot well with bullets from 320-350 at 1350fps. Haven't shot anything large with it. I need to move to a state where you can hunt more and longer.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Now that makes things more interesting! Yes, try heavier boolits. Try the 335 gr LBT and work up in boolit weight. I can't find the twist rate but I think it is faster then the 1 in 24" that Freedom uses. Freedom is bound by their cylinder length and rifles for boolits that fit. E mail Ruger for the rate or measure it as close as you can with a cleaning rod.

Ruger website states 1/24" for their SRH 454. Taurus website also lists the RB as 1/24". I bought a box of 395 gr but never tried them. I guess they are paper weights now...

Well hold on there makeminestainless! Try 'em out first (or send 'em to me as this would be the perfect excuse to start reloading again!)! There's nothing more fun than upending conventional wisdom -- LOL! If I can recall -- and there is more than a good chance that I am wrong -- Double Tap ammo developed that 400 grain Casull load in an SRH. So, despite the twist, it just might work. Hell I don't know, but I will order up a box and see what it'll do at the range. If they are accurate, I'm going to erradicate some hogs with it.............

OK, I found the twist on their site and don't know why they make it so slow. It should be 1 in 20.
But it just might be OK with the velocity and the cylinder is long enough for longer boolits, unlike most Freedom's that are handicapped with short frames and cylinders.
I would be interested in results.

bfrshooter -- I will try to get to the range next weekend (if the 400 grain ammo arrives) and I will test it and the 360 grain ammo for accuracy. I will then post the results. Hope it works as I like heavy for caliber bullets for hunting. We'll see!

What's the twist for the Blackhawk in 45 Colt?
My 405's were from Liberty bullets in Oregon. They were a 45-70 bullet that they sized down for me. If my memory is working... I loaded them from around 1150 to 1550 with 296. I know that is way too hot and please don't try to go there. I don't remember what the top charge was, but looking at Quickload it could have been around 90,000 psi or more to get past 1500fps. Boy was I stupid or what? The gun is fine so I guess there goes the weak Taurus stories.
The bullet is 1.10" with a .43" nose length. so loaded to 1.81" and 6.5" barrel, here is some sane predictions from Quickload for what it's worth.
**Remember this is not load data, just a computer simulation and may not be close to what actually happens in your gun.**
405gn bullet 1.81" COAL WW296:
18gn 1000fps 22.7ksi 93% load density
19gn 1070fps 27.67ksi 98% load density
20gn 1145fps 33.5ksi 103% load density
21gn 1218fps 40.7ksi 108% load density
22gn 1291fps 49.7ksi 114% load density
I would think you should stop somewhere before this. I'm listing the next powder increments to show how high the pressure can go while trying for just a little more velocity.
23gn 1366fps 61.0ksi 119% load density
24gn 1440fps 75.4ksi 124% load density
25gn 1522fps 94.3ksi 129% load density
**don't try to go here, I don't know how the Taurus held together. There must be some gaurdian angel that watches over stupid handloaders.
If I would have had Quickload back then I never would have thought about loading that hot.
John Taffin listed some loads in the 454 with a 340gn cast bullet going over 1700fps in his Freedom Arms revolver. You have to seat the bullet deaper in the FA guns which will drive your pressure higher. The Quickload guess is about 75,000 psi to get a 340 going that fast.

I'm going to have to get one of those Pressure Trace setups so I can see what is actually going on in hot loads.

I wonder if you could use a M-98 action and mount it to a shooting bench for pressure testing and be legal with a short pistol length barrel on it? Probably not. I think I'll write a letter to the ATF to see if it would be legal if used as a pressure testing device only.

Freedom Arms rifled to shoot lighter bullets? Pshaw! I've fired CP 370 gr hard cast for years with outstanding accuracy in my M83.

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:
What's the twist for the Blackhawk in 45 Colt?

1/16 from their website. Maybe a better platform for big game than their 454 SRH

I still don't get all this talk about the FAs being rifled for lighter weight bullets. My .475 shoots the 400+ grain bullets to minute of pop bottle well past 100 yards.

Yes heavy boolits can shoot OK in the Freedoms but the must be seated too deep and that only raises pressures. Those higher pressures can effect the accuracy too by being rough on cast boolits.
It depends on what accuracy you will be happy with and for hunting you can afford some loss. We have been working with two guns a lot, the Freedom .475 with 1 in 18 twist and the BFR .475 with a 1 in 15.
The freedom is hard pressed to take a heavy cast boolit and the Lee 400 gr barely fits and must be seated to the very top of the crimp groove. Anything larger must be seated way too deep so that powder space is approaching a .480 case. Accuracy would do for close range hunting but gets more dismal as weight goes up. We can't get a stabilizing speed because pressure rises too fast and velocity doesn't. Going to a 350 gr boolit we have approached 1" at 50 yd's but have not broken that yet.
The BFR will take any weight boolit and doesn't start to group until 400 gr's is reached and continues to 460 gr's. I have shot many 50 yd groups of 9/16" to 5/8" with 1" being the norm. Any load over 1" average is rejected. Accuracy holds all the way to 500 meters and steel can be clanged easily out there.
My other friend has the Freedom .454 but he is the only one that has worked loads and only with jacketed. I notice that as bullet weight goes up, crimp grooves are still high on the bullet so they fit the cylinders, forcing deep seating. Once the weight gets so high the case capacity starts to approach the .45 Colt.
In my opinion these two cartridges are a total mismatch in the Freedoms because they don't reach potential unless light for caliber boolits are used. I know this rubs Freedom lovers wrong but you have to face facts.
When I do get the money for one it will be either the .41 or .44. For Freedom to keep making larger and larger calibers in the same size guns would mean buying or making new molds and changing my use of the calibers.
That is also the reason I do not want the S&W .460 because it was designed for light bullets at high velocity. My friend in PA shot a deer at 140 yd's with his and he sent me a picture. The offside of the deer was blown to pieces, I never seen such a mess and that is not my idea of hunting. I can't imagine a 40 yd hit on a deer. Unless the gun can get sub 1" groups at 50 yd's with boolits from 335 gr's and up, I don't want it. So far I not read anything of heavy boolit trials.
Those are my opinions and I suppose I will get hammered about it, but if anyone can prove me wrong, I will listen but that is all.
As much as I love the Freedom's I will also be very choosey about which caliber I buy. They can be super accurate but some have limitations.

This is the 405 I was shooting in my Rageing Bull. I thought it was a nice looking bullet.
The Greenhill calculator at mountainmolds says you can have a 1:28 twist and still use a 1.1" bullet. It doesn't use velocity though.
I wonder if the high pressures could have made the bullet keyhole?
http://www.mountainmolds.com/
Even though there were several profile cuts in the paper, they all grouped in about 3-4", I think it was around 30-40 yds(CRS)

Glen, the Greenhill formula doesn't work! It was figured for old BP cartridges and was iffy back then. I don't know of any way to tell what a twist wants except to shoot the gun. I only know that the slower the twist is the shorter and lighter the boolit has to be. If the twist is slow, a long boolit has to be driven faster to stabilize and you run into more pressure then is safe. As you speed the twist, velocity must go down as the boolit gets shorter and lighter. There is just no way around the problem but to match boolit length and velocity to the twist.
If you have ever tried to shoot a maxi ball from 1 in 60 twist or a round ball from a 1 in 28 twist muzzle loader you can see it right away. You can use 3000# of powder but will never get either to shoot.
I get so many responses saying "oh, my gun with a slow twist shoots super heavy boolits" or my .44 shoots 180 gr bullets real accurate. What is accurate? If the gun goes bang and the mud flys, I guess it is good.
We have revolvers accurate to past 500 meters and guys insist on shooting 25 yd's to test them. Most are happy with 2" to 4" groups at that range. Read the gun rags that test large revolvers from a Ransom rest at 25 yd's and see how ridiculous it is.
You are like me and try all kinds of stuff and I love to see what you do. But you just have to admit when something doesn't work, it is time to drop it. Nothing you can do will make the wrong boolit shoot. But it sure is fun trying!
The same is true with, say, the .475 Freedom. Someone will post that they are shooting a 500 gr bullet with accuracy and high velocity, sorry, it doesn't happen! Match the boolit to the Freedom and it WILL shoot like a house afire. It's the hole in the mud thing you know.

bfrshooter -- ordered the 400 grain ammo today and talked to Mike at Double Tap about accuracy testing they did with an SRH in Casull. He said that because the boolit has such a wide meplat, it's not so long and he claimed that the SRH had no trouble stabilizing with the factory twist rate and was therefore accurate. So, I'll try 'em out and we'll see..........

I love the SRH. I made a big mistake selling mine (.44) to my friend when I needed money for another gun. I had a scope on it and shooting from sandbags, I was able to hit a bunch of pop cans at 200 yd's. It came with a perfect trigger that I never had to touch, it was less then 2#. I switched to a red dot for deer and piled up a nice mess of them.
Keep us posted on how those big ones shoot.

By the way, Handloader has an article on the SRH. He was using a Ransom rest at the extreme range of 25 yd's and some factory loads were giving him 1/2" groups, so far so good! Then none of his handloads did better then 1". I had to laugh and would tell him to go back and learn to reload. Those guns will do 1/2" to 3/4" at 50 yd's if loaded right. From bags, let alone a Ransom rest!
I keep saying 25 yd's won't tell a thing so I went down last year with my .45 Vaquero, set up a target at 25 yd's and using some junk boolits with one of the worst loads I found for the gun that were hard pressed to hold 4" at 50 yd's and shot 10 shots into a ragged hole. I shot from Creedmore, no bags, no rest except my leg. If I didn't know better, I would have recommended that load as great and bragged about it when it was one of the worst I ever tried.

An old friend of mine from high school went Elk hunting with us last fall. We went to the range a few weeks before the season opened up, he tried some handloads and then sighted his gun in with factory ammo. He has a Weatherby in 340. He set his target up at 25 yards and procecded to dial his scope in. He checked the velocity with my chrony and then fired up his laptop to run a ballistics program to see exactly where he wanted his height to be.
He would shoot 3 rounds, measure the target and adjust the scope. He had shot almost all his ammo and was starting to look happy, then I asked him if he was even going to shoot a 100yd target. He hadn't planned on it so I talked him into it.
It was pretty much too late to un-invite him. It wasn't the most pleasant trip I've been on, but we did survive.
Maybe we should thank these guys for keeping life interesting?

One of my neighbors is kind of like that. He has a 7mm mag and a .308. He sights in at close range but every season he shoots at deer clear across his back field and his neighbors field. He has no idea where the gun hits out there and he misses a lot of deer, he also cripples one now and then. He won't listen. He does push a lot of deer my way though. When I hear him blasting, all I have to do is wait.
He bought a new SRH last year and I mounted a red dot for him and helped him sight it. He never gave it a chance and switched back to the rifle after a few hours. He hated to see deer out of it's range.
One of the other hunters uses a 7mm mag and shoots deer at 25 to 30 yd's. Every year I have to help him try and find a deer. He will try and shoot through brush and trees so thick he can hardly see the deer. I have never been able to explain to him that his gun is too big and even a twig will cause a miss or a cripple.
They are both super guys but I still call them hard headed.

Tried um! The 400s won't stabilize at long range, or in heavy game. They will tumble. The 340s seem to be optimum

I tried them (400 grain WFNs) in my SRH and got a complete pass through on the hog that is in my signature photo. Am happy with the accuracy as well. It does kick a bit, though!

The heaviest bullet that I have shot in the 454 is the Buffalo Bore 360 grain and find them to be about perfect. They give excelent penetration on Bison

I also shoot 420 Hard cast bullets out of my Freedom 475 and get excelent accuracy

My SRH 7.5" is very accurate with 400grainers from Double tap.

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
My SRH 7.5" is very accurate with 400grainers from Double tap.

How's the recoil of those loads compared to others?

It's pretty stout, Kenneth. Buglemintoday doesn't seem to notice the difference between the 400 grain and other lighter loads, but I most certainly can tell. It still kicks more lightly than my .475...... They definitely let you know they are there. I took the red hog in my signature photo with Double Tap 400 grain Casull loads (7.5-inch SRH).

jwp475

Can you give us more details of how much penetration you got on your buffalo? i

Thanks
Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Buglemintoday doesn't seem to notice the difference between the 400 grain and other lighter loads, but I most certainly can tell.

When your hand is numb, how can you tell?

You sure it's your hand that's numb, Justin? LOL! The Casull seems to punish in all factory offerings!

quote:

Originally posted by Coloradoyaler:
jwp475

Can you give us more details of how much penetration you got on your buffalo? i

Thanks
Mark

On 3 year old Bulls we got exits on broadside shots...

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
It's pretty stout, Kenneth. Buglemintoday doesn't seem to notice the difference between the 400 grain and other lighter loads, but I most certainly can tell. It still kicks more lightly than my .475...... They definitely let you know they are there. I took the red hog in my signature photo with Double Tap 400 grain Casull loads (7.5-inch SRH).

Thank you for the info. I was reading your hog hunting thread not too long ago, nice hog. I may have to give these loads a try.

i've shot 3 big big game animals with my casulls.
1) a smaller water buff, got complete side to side and broke one shoulder with the corbon 320 grain penetrators. used after watching what lynn thompson from cold steel knives used.

2) a two year old bison bull with the 335 gr hardcast corbons, once again, complete pentration one broadside shots.

3) a bull estimated to weigh nearly 3000K lbs at my cousin's cattle ranch, nearly killed his son and was saved by a crafty blue heeler, i was there on the property with my FA and shot it with a 360 grain buffalo bore dead on in the chest and got it stuck in the back left hip joint, it was an angling slightly upwards shot. damage was found to be pretty awesome. great load as well.

jwp475

Thanks for your reply. I am going to try some of the Cast Perofrmace 360grs.

trademark

Thank you as well for sharing your experiences! What do you mean watching what Lynn Thompson used? Is there a DVD or video of his hunts?

Mark

Here you go coloradoyaler, scroll down to read story and pictures

http://books.google.com/books?id=LTFwWDOwVQUC&pg=PA171&...WPsqUcVFJg#PPA195,M1

This is a group shot at 25yds with the 395 Cast Perfomance bullet at 1200fps. Looks like it stablized.



These groups were shot with the same bullet at 100yrds with a velocity of 1400fps. I believe these are stablizing ok.

Mark

unfortunately i've not found a video but i did get too talk to the man several years ago and he sure didn't feel like he needed more than his 454, on anything, including elephant. of course, he can hit a quarter at 25 yards time and time again. he's an excellent marksman and the beginning of my motivation to get really good, not just mediocre. once you see whats possible you push for more accuracy and then you feel confidence you've not had before.