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You don't consider a 350 grain bullet light in a .510? This surprises me. I guess we just have different standards of measure. I don't think I would use anything less than a 450 grainer in a .510. Call me crazy, but I like all of the penetration I can get. The parallel I drew was simple. Why have I included jwp's posts? That is also simple. He has a lot to add and he has probably taken twice the game you and I have taken combined, with a handgun. Call it "value added". But, since you choose to ignore his posts, I wanted to save you from having someone PM you what he puts up. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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OH MY, OH MY, what have I started? Dare I ever post again? This forum needs to changed to the HUMOR thread!  | |||
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Instigator!  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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For what I am using the 510 GNR for, I don't need a 450 gr. bullet. If I decided to go after larger game, I may consider going up to a 400 plus gr. bullet. But not for this application. I don't have to shoot the biggest bullet for everything I hunt. I design my loads to the game I am after. Do you know how many different game I have taken with a handgun? What make's you say JWP has taken twice as much as you and I put together, you have no idea of how many animals, I have taken with a handgun. As for JWP posts. You write, Call it "value added". JWP Post. The 325 grain hollow point out of a 480 Ruger penetrated the same amount as did the 230 Gold Dot out of the 45 ACP Who was talking about hollow point bullets here??????????????? What are the variables here. Velocity etc???  Posted by JWP. When blowing up animals the proper choice of explosive is just as important as the proper bullet when just shooting an animal VS blowing one up. What is your choice of explosive, C-4 or TNT or Dynamite? Yep, "value added". If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Decorum  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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You fail to see (again, I might add) that it was you who were critical of defensive firearms/calibers being mentioned in this forum, hence jwp's hollow-point and .45 ACP commentary. Go back and read it if you don't believe me. Variables? You are questioning variables when you made your blanket statements about defensive handguns and cartridges? Smells like a contradiction to me....... The blowing up remark was an attempt at levity and you know it. As for jwp hunting more game with a handgun, he was shooting animals with a hand cannon when you and I were still filling our diapers. Hell, he was hunting with a .475 Linebaugh in '88 -- what were you doing in 1988? So, it's a safe bet -- an assumption on my part I am willing to recognize as such, but a safe bet nonetheless. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Whitworth, how old are you? Damn, I'm dealing with juveniles here??? LMAO. As I no longer subject myself to jwp's legends, I would ask how he shot the .475 Linebaug in 1988. It was first introduced to the general public as a .45-70 case cut down wildcat in May of 88. (I was 42 and completing my 24th year in the military) Seriously, was jwp that connected to Linebaugh to be using a prototype? RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
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In 1988 I was 28 years old, I had been handgun hunting for 10 years already, deer , hogs, and serving in the USAF. And frankly I could careless what JWP was doing or has done. I don't worship at the alter of the old mighty JWP. And no I don't fail to see anything, I just don't see it your way, so you assume I don't understand. That is just your perception. I feel I am on am marry go round, I keep seeing the same stuff over and over again, and it is a pointless ride in my opinion. I will leave it at that, and continue what I have done all along, and rely on my own handgun knowledge to make the right decision on what I need to use. Have a nice day Whitworth. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Actually, it was introduced in 1987, but it was introduced to the shooting press in May of '88. JWP has one of the first revolvers ever chambered in .475 and it was the first one ever built by Hamilton Bowen -- you doing some research George? In '88 I was in college having gotten out of the Marine Corps two years earlier. You called it a wildcat about a week ago. It was standardized in its current form with the small rim and shortened case (1.40 down to 1.38) in 1999/2000 (submitted by Hornady to SAAMI) -- all changes that were made by Jack Huntington (mods that he had been performing back since 1993). In 1998 brass and ammunition were being produced by Buffalo Bore (actually Starline brass to this specification). So yes, JWP has one of the first examples of the .475 Linebaugh. Before that, he was hunting with a .44 mag and a .45 Colt........ "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Nor do I worship at any man's ALTAR...... I just happen to know the man and if you had his level of experience, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss all that he has to say and offer. But, I won't confuse you with the facts as you have already made up your mind. If you are tired of the MERRY-go-round, why don't you get off? Seems to me you just want to keep arguing........ "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I have the same problems on the archery sites. So much so that I don't post anymore. I have killed over 230 deer with bows and know what works. But the new super light arrow guys are against me tooth and nail. Just watch the TV and see those arrows go in 6" and stop unless nothing is hit when the arrows slide between ribs. I have killed several deer with healed in arrows near the hearts. I almost cut myself on them while gutting. I have given away deer where the people have found arrows in them. I can't remember exactly but have a total of over 360 deer killed, Most with arrows, many with muzzle loaders, a few with shotgun slugs and a few with rifles and a whole bunch with revolvers and single shot pistols. Anything that is marginal on deer is never used again and I would not think of using it on larger game. Light, fast arrows just suck as do bullets that expand too fast. The lighter the bullet the worse it is and hollow points can fail fast even though sometimes they kill fast. I answer a post and some will jump down my throat about how great a boolit worked for them--YEAH, OK, HOW MANY? Killing one or two animals does not show me or anyone else a single thing except there is a lack of experience talking. Deer don't bother me and if I take a .22 pistol and wait for the close, perfect brain shot, I can kill every deer but will I recommend a .22? The .357 has killed a lot of animals but half of them can be lost. I never recommend one. The .41 is where confidence starts if the right bullet is chosen but there is not a lot to choose from. The .44 has a wide range of bullets/boolits. Anyone that chooses the 180 gr bullet is fooling himself only because he is afraid of recoil and expects energy to do the job. Any revolver boolit that works on moose, Kodiak bears, cape buf or elephant will certainly work on a deer. Same with an arrow. Wasted energy and over penetration is a fallacy. Why use different boolits for different game? We are not shooting rifles. Here are a few arrow shafts found in deer.  | |||
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This is getting good.  Preach on bfrshooter! Like you, I've got enough kills under my belt to know what I can make work and the best way to apply it.If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Acctualy george, my 475 was in the works and paid for before John Linebaugh had finnished with the final specs. I ordered mine the year before. The first article about the 475 Linebaugh appeared in the April or May (if memory serves) 1988 issue of Guns & Ammo written by my friend and favorite writer Ross Seyfried. I waited on that article to hit the news stand for 6 months. I recieved my revolver from Hamilton Bowen shortly after the article appeard and killed a Moose and shot a Grizz that fall (I have posted pictures of that previously) Yes I made my cases from shortened 45/70 cases and I also had a free check tool that made gas checks out of pop cans that I applied to the plain base bullet made from an LBT mold by Veral Smith Yes I have been doing this for a long time and I hunted with a 357 mag for years before moving to a 44 mag. While in Alaska I found the 44 mag to be lacking and I then moved to the 45 Colt with a 310 grain LBT LFN bullet ahead of 25 grains of W-296 that I casted. The 45 Colt proved to be very effective, but the 475 was on a higher level for sure. My brother bought a 454 Casull and he used that on Kodiak Island and I used the 45 Colt and the results were satisfactory indeed _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Again, for the benefit of those who may have JWP on ignore....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Just checked the issue and it was May that the first article on the 475 Linebaugh appeared. As a matter of fact John Linebaugh and I talked about those old conversations at the Linebaugh Seminar in Jackson, Miss. MS HITMAN was there and can verify if needed for some. Some seem to try to change the subject matter in a thread when losing a debate, that's too bad because it defeats the usefullness of these forums, which is an exchange of information inorder to avoid a long learning curve. I for one like the internet forums and have learned quite a bit from them.. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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And I was cutting down .303 British to make .445 Supermag cases for my old Dan Wesson revolver before good cases were commercially available. Got many 3" groups on the ram line with open sights. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Again, for the benefit of those who choose to ignore jwp475. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Actually Whitworth, I didn't NEED to listen to hearsay from JWP. It's all under "http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt475.htm" and several articles say that it was "first introduced to the public in May 1988 in Guns and Ammo magazine. That article, by the way, not written by me, my friends, nor anyone that I know personally, clearly states that the round was a "WILDCAT". Now as for counting the number of animals I've killed in my life, I gave that up when I passed from that state of hunting (http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/hunter-stages.php) I have yet to see any benefit in from not keeping jwp on "ignore". My IQ remains above 90 and I don't have to explain to him what 60 means. He's YOUR friend. You can keep him. RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
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Yes, in the gun press, it made its first appearance in May of 1988, which means that it existed prior to May of '88. When I was a magazine hack, we had a three month lead time, and in some cases magazines have even more lead time and I can assure you that it was around more than three months before the article........  We were talking about handgun kills, not your lifetime total. Yes he is my friend, George, and I will keep him. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Key word being Was a Wildcat and that it was, but is no longer. Again if the facts don't suit you, go for the personal attacks seems to be the M.O. Do I need to explain M.O.? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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That is when I stated that the article appeared. Hearsay, I guess MS HITMAN's verification is not enough for some. Call John Linebaugh and ask him, his number is easy to acquire. Maybe you would like talk to Ross Seyfried, would you like his number? I am of the belief that nothing will suffice for some sort of total agreement with them, right or wrong makes no difference to some it seems. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Yes, it was a wildcat at that time....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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And for the ignore club......... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Look Whitworth, IF I thought jwp had anything intellectually or philosophically important enough to say about anything, I WOULDN'T HAVE HIM ON MY IGNORE LIST. So please stop posting anything he has to say in response to what I type. This name dropping and legend-in-his-own-mind crap wears thin with me. I don't need anyone's phone number and if I did, I'd use Google or the white pages. Enought of the C&P already. And remember, this started under the guise of "decorum", so if anyone's tried to turn a debate, I guess YOU are just as culpable as I. "Debates" are really nothing more than arguments anyway, and the only way ANYONE wins is when one individual convinces the other to accept his point of view. Ain't happening here so it's just plain silly to continue this commentary. RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
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Look George, no one is forcing you to read these posts and really, no one is forcing you to respond, so why don't you cease???? Yup, it was a post on decorum and y'all turned it to feces as usual. SO STOP POSTING! If you don't have the self-discipline not to respond, it's not my fault. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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1- Apparently I am on your selective ignore list, you never miss an oppertunity to read what I post when it is quoted and then reply to it 2- Then why do you continue to reply _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Hilarious. As my mother always told me, if the shoe fits, wear it. Whitworth what don't you understand about "decorum"? I've TRIED to practice it by avoiding the baby magpie who's always squawking and crapping, but YOU keep cutting and pasting it in YOUR posts. All I've asked for you to do is to stop inciting the issue by doing what the title of the post was intended to provoke: DECORUM. I don't mind reading your OPINIONS so why are you encouraging me to put YOU on ignore as well just so I can avoid the hemmorhoid??? RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
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You are just as much part of this as anyone else here. Yup, it was a post on decorum and y'all turned it to feces as usual.SO STOP POSTING! What give you the right to tell people to stop posting? I doubt any one here would know Decorum, if it ran up and kick them in the butt.  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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1- I guess that he gets the right from the same place that you and george get the right to tell Whitworth not to post. 2- Where you looking in the mirror when you typed that? Can you say double standard? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I find it rather incongruous and insincere that you complain, but never fail to post. Yes, I am coming back at you every time as I am sick of the double standards you have. Again, if you truly don't like it, put your money where your mouth is and STOP REPLYING. And no, Redhawk1, no is "telling you not to post". "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I suspect you've already seen the content of this post, but in case you haven't, here it is for your viewing pleasure....... JWP is involved in this too, so he might as well be heard. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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jwp WASN'T in any of this on my screen until YOU put him back. I guess you've answered my question as to what decision I need to make about this board. I hate to do it, but putting YOU on my ignore list will obviously rid me of your butt buddy. It's become a matter of of respect now and you obviously have none for how we feel. RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
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Whitworth seeing how you have to be the voice of JWP, I did not tell you EVER to stop posting, I just ask if you could quit quoting his posts for other that could care less about him to see what he posted. The Ignore function was put in place to keep people from viewing post they did not want to see. It defeats the purpose of this function when a member adamantly does this. Let me explain the ignore function to you, it makes it so I don't have to see that persons post, so I don't feel compelled to reply. It avoids heated discussions. There is no double standard here. Just a simple request. I don't need to have a discussion with you and have you feel that I should view someone else's post that I have on ignore. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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George, I like Whitworth, I think he alone is a stand up guy, and I could learn a lot from him, it is when his buddy has to join in, then it go south. The same goes for bfrshooter, very down to earth and has a lot of knowledge. It is just one guy here that makes my skin crawl. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Now that you have refered to jwp as my "butt buddy" you have effectively crossed a line and shown me not one ounce of respect. You and your "buddy" (notice how I have refrained from stooping to your level) have repeatedly brought jwp into the discussion, therefore, you should be reading what he is writing. You have shown me no respect, why should I show it to you? Respect is a two-way street. The tone of most of your posts is derisive and insulting, and then you have the audacity to whine about how you are being treated. I would be honored if you put me on ignore. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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This thread needs to be dumped, MS Hitman made a post on Decorum. By itself, it was a great message. Then we have to have another thread with the same title, and have everyone feel they had to elaborate on a message that was perfectly clear on it own. MS Hitman do us all a favor and nuke this thread. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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1- And you should wear, since it fits perfectly 2- Practice Decorum? Is that what you call never missing an oppertunity to hurl one of your not so cleaver personal insults? 3- Answered in number 2 _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Whitworth, I asked you TWICE to refrain from cuting and pasting jwp's crap on there. TWICE you refused and ridiculed the idea and you want to talk to ME about respect. You have none for yourself, much less anyone else. The "ignore" selection is on this site for a reason. Hitman and I've had several discussions on this and I explained that jwp is just an incessant wart to me and when I read what it says, I see a snotnosed little playground bully who likes to punch and run to the teacher. I told him that in order for me NOT to get drawn into interchanges with him on this forum I would put him on "ignore". Yet YOU insisted on throwing him in my face and YOU want to talk about RESPECT. Man, have you no sense of decency? Had you asked me to do something so mundane, I'd have honored YOUR wishes whether I agreed with you or not. You brag about being your own person and then resort to such chicanery is simply sad in my opinion. Hitman, I agree with Redhawk. The "Decorum" post never should have been placed here after you'd posted a separate one anyway. You can't effectively "moderate" this site unless you are willing to moderate your friends as well as you moderate us interlopers. RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
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Just have to get the last word in, don't you. You wouldn't and haven't honored my wishes at all. I "wish" you would stop posting on this thread. Are you going to honor my rather mundane wish now George? All I'm hearing is a lonely violin off in the distance, playing a sad tune and a whole bunch of self-riteous indignation...........you have the power to end this, George......... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Are you saying that you have no will power not to read what I post if it is quoted. The only one that has gone crying to the teacher is the one in your mirror. WOW, who'd a thunk it Whitworth you must stop, because george said you must. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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