Speak to me about these guns. Shoot well?
We have one at the shop that I can't seem to leave alone. I don't scope my handguns, so don't care for the built in scope bases cut's, but could get used to them anyway. . . . I think.
I would do an action job, spring kit, checkered grips, etc. to make it exceptable, but wondering how they shoot in general.
Looking for a good 300 yard rock popper.

Ain't no Freedom Arms, but the ones I have shot, have shot well.

Just slug your barrel and size a good cast bullet to it.

I have several and all shoot quite well. I have lots of handguns, autos and revolvers alike. Over 40 actually, and as far as I am concerned there is no better platform for serious handgun hunting than those Bisley Hunters. The scope placement is perfect and solid and it balances well. Remove the scope and put it back on and you will still hit a tennis ball at 100yds. I have one in 44mag, customized by Reeder and "had" one in 41 Rem mag that is now a 410GNR custom(454Casull necked down to 41cal) and "had" one in 45 long colt that is now a 455GNR custom(475Linebaugh necked down to 45cal) and love the set-up. A stock Ruger ain't no Freedom, but any of the custom gunsmith specializing in revolvers can remedy that right quick. If there is anything that you need to be watchful of, it is making sure you tighten the scope rings to the rib quite tight and check them once in awile if your shooting a lot of heavy loads, like at a range session. Other than that, good luck.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Sounds very promising. I have too many gun projects in the works, but looks like I may just have to add another one. By the way Woodrow, how is the work from Reeder? In other words what is the best feature he has provided to make the project worthwhile? Have read a lot regarding his work, but have never seen one, and the gunwriters always seem to make all the custom gunsmiths look good. would you use him again?
Thanks, Dennis

Garys' work is about a good as it gets and he makes sure you are happy. If the gun don't shoot well, it don't leave his shop until it does. He has a lifetime warranty on the finish, which you seldom see in the gunsmithing business, even if you bought the gun from someone else. Will I use him again?...hell yes. I have at least 10 of his custom revolvers, at least 3 custom Encore single shot handgun frames with perhaps 10 of his custom barrels, one of Kase Reeders full custom 1911's in 10mm auto and a full custom levergun Alaskan Classic in 450GNR( 50Alaskan necked down to .458 caliber)on the Marlin 1895 Guide Gun platform. Awesome, all of them. Some have custom exotic wood grips, some Mongolian stag, some white pearl and others black Micarta. Very difficult to pick a favorite one. He also has a very nice line-up of holsters and any of his wildcat cartridges can be bought as ammo if you don't reload(amongst regular ammo too) and, if you do reload most can be had with properly headstamped brass with the dies coming from Hornady The only problem...I am addicted to his work. He is the most innovative gunsmith/pistolsmith on the market, hands down. Stop in on his website and see for yourself. I like his forum too. Oh yes, the best feature.........customer service!

Action job-YES, spring change- ONLY IF YOU PUT AN OVER POWER VARIABLE WOLFF MAINSPRING IN. Never a reduced power. You can lighten the trigger spring by changing it or re-bending it but leave the mainspring alone unless you go over power. I would go 26#.
A simple trigger job is all that is needed and though I don't like a Bisley, the gun will shoot. Seen some do 1/2' at 50.

Well, that's it. Can't take it any longer, I'm gunna go ahead and get the Hunter. May be a few weeks, but will report on how it shoot's.
Thanks guys for all your comments.

I don't think you'll be disappointed!

Thanks Whitworth, it's going home with me Monday!
Gotta a 258gr. LBT WFN PB that I'm gunna try. You have a favorite reciept?

Shoots pretty good. Not as well as my old FAs, but I think with a little lapping and some action work, it will do nicely.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Thanks Whitworth, it's going home with me Monday!
Gotta a 258gr. LBT WFN PB that I'm gunna try. You have a favorite reciept?

I have a mold from LBT that drops 290 grainers from Wheel Weights with the crimp groove set for the Redhawk cylinder (too long for a SBH) and I push tem to 1490 FPS out of a 5 1/2 inch Redhawk

Gunna order another mould for this revolver; possibly a 275-300 grain bullet. It will be from LBT, and thinking about a WLN design. Any of you boys have a favorite one for loooong range accuracy that you find works the best?

Will be topping it off at about 1,200 fps, so not really wanting a gas check, as I hate putting them on, and they add extra cost. But I do want the best shooting bullet I can get for this gun.

Any input. . . . . ?

Whitworth. . . . BFRshooter. . . .JWP475. . . . . . . .Woodrow. . . . Hitman. . . .?

Most of my boolits have gas checks. It is hard to find a good design in the .44 without one.
You can get a Keith style in PB but if you want to shoot far you will be disappointed.
The Ruger will shoot about anything from 240 to 330 gr and I have the Lee RD mold in 265 gr that is super accurate. Ranch Dog no longer deals with Lee because of all the bad molds he got and had to send back.
A good boolit for range would be around 265 to 310 gr and LBT can make you a PB. I would go for a WLN.
Cast the boolits hard with water dropped WW metal or a harder alloy up to 25 BHN and let them age a week before loading them. They will harden and expand some.
You will want a boolit at .432".

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Most of my boolits have gas checks. It is hard to find a good design in the .44 without one.
You can get a Keith style in PB but if you want to shoot far you will be disappointed.
The Ruger will shoot about anything from 240 to 330 gr and I have the Lee RD mold in 265 gr that is super accurate. Ranch Dog no longer deals with Lee because of all the bad molds he got and had to send back.
A good boolit for range would be around 265 to 310 gr and LBT can make you a PB. I would go for a WLN.
Cast the boolits hard with water dropped WW metal or a harder alloy up to 25 BHN and let them age a week before loading them. They will harden and expand some.
You will want a boolit at .432".

The Keith bullet was designed to be accurate at distance and it acheived the goal.

For it's time! A model "T" in a world full of model "A'S".
If it was so good, every jacketed handgun bullet would be that shape.
Thump one hard enough made from soft lead and it will turn into the right shape that should have been used to start with.

Can you do this with a Keith at 200 yards?

I would stay away from checkered grips if you are going to shoot max loads.

Brain Pierce did an article where he recreated the "elme Kieth" 600 yard shot on a wounded Deer. Brain had many hits on the "Deer target. The bullet were in fact rather accurate at distance. Accuracy at distance was and is a strong point of the "Kieth" design

I agree that the true "Keith" design was known for its accuracy. The problem today is that there are a million different designs out there claiming to be Keith bullets of various quality.

The Keith CAN be accurate but it needs a revolver that has PERFECT chamber and bore alignment. The nose of a Keith has zero guidance at the forcing cone.
The little shoulder does ZIP for accuracy or killing effect, it was to make round holes in paper like a wad cutter.
The only thing good about the boolit is that it looks good loaded.
Nobody can show that it is better then a truncated cone or a RNFP.
Why defend a dinosaur?

I second that Whitworth, and agree. I have had much better accuracy from a true Keith design at long range then my LBTs have ever been able to provide.
The reason they don't make jacketed Keith style bullets is because it was designed to work with cast with the obturation cast provides. It would not work in a jacket.

quote:

I second that Whitworth, and agree. I have had much better accuracy from a true Keith design at long range then my LBTs have ever been able to provide.
The reason they don't make jacketed Keith style bullets is because it was designed to work with cast with the obturation cast provides. It would not work in a jacket.

That is 100% wrong. Obturate means SEAL. A boolit needs to expand to obturate.
Use a boolit of the proper diameter and it does not need to expand. It will obturate as is.
Any boolit that expands is prone to slump and deformation.
Elmer used soft lead and I would bet that every one he shot with the hot loads he used turned into a WLN. I have read everything he wrote and have his book, he never mentions recovered boolits and what they looked like.
I will go head to head with anyone shooting a Keith to 500 meters and I will also shoot better groups at 50 then a Keith will. We can switch guns and the same thing will happen.
I shot thousands of the original Keith out to 550 yards long ago and I needed a very large target.
Elmer had a fit when Lyman changed his boolit to round bottom grease grooves---guess what? It means nothing at all.
Long ago you had a choice between a round nose or wad cutter. The round nose sucked for hunting and the wad cutter sucked at range. Elmer went in between but did not go far enough. He wanted round holes in paper and a flat nose for animals. He should have given up the holes in paper. A slumped boolit does not cut perfect holes anyway.
The biggest reason for all the differences in Keith style boolits today is the difference in shoulder size. The smaller the shoulder, the better it will shoot and if you just do away with it, it will shoot better.
Someone needs to explain what the shoulder does. Looks pretty is not the answer.
Since airflow does not contact the shoulder in flight, just how does it make the boolit stable? Since the shoulder does not add to damage in an animal and does not touch anything because the pressure wave from the nose moves tissue away, what is it for?
This is the very best I ever did with a Keith at 25 and 50 yards. Going to a hunting load of 2400 or 296 just makes it worse.

Sorry Jim, but my results were my results. The reason Keith wanted the square grooves was so that the bullet would shorten at the groove location easier upon firing and force the lube from the gooves harder into the rifling for a better seal. The rounded corners of the modified bullet create a truss effect which strengthen the bullet in the grooves, and change this effect. We both have a good deal of experience with shooting cast. I am not wrong, but have had different experiences using different guns.
As far as my conversation regarding handguns on here, I am done!
Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Sorry Jim, but my results were my results. The reason Keith wanted the square grooves was so that the bullet would shorten at the groove location easier upon firing and force the lube from the gooves harder into the rifling for a better seal. The rounded corners of the modified bullet create a truss effect which strengthen the bullet in the grooves, and change this effect. We both have a good deal of experience with shooting cast. I am not wrong, but have had different experiences using different guns.
As far as my conversation regarding handguns on here, I am done!
Cheers.

Done only with this thread, I hope.....

Don't go anywhere, Dennis!

In no way, shape or form does lube seal. Only lead forced into grooves will seal.
Pressure is way too high for any lube to act as a seal. Boolits are not piston rings where a little lube will increase compression. Don't compare 100# in an engine with thousands of pounds in a gun. Once an engine fires, the rings do the sealing and oil prevents wear and galling.
Lube only creates a barrier between different metals and softens fouling.
There are fellas shooting boolits WITHOUT lube.
Many of the boolits I have made have round bottom grease grooves and they are more accurate then I can shoot.
I shoot hard boolits that do not deform and recovered boolits look and measure just as loaded. I get accuracy with zero leading. I can't see and can't measure where grease grooves have shortened and forced out lube.
Shoot and recover a boolit with hard lube and see for yourself that all of the lube is still in the grooves except some that chunks out when leaving the muzzle.
Now go back and looked at the slumped Keith picture. The grooves were destroyed before the boolit left the forcing cone and the lube was blown from the gap, leaving nothing for the barrel. It is very clear that there was none left for a seal.

If you do decide to "scope" it, think about a red dot instead. I am going to remove my scope from mine and replace it with an UltraDot. Less bulk, quicker on target, no parallax. I am using "dots" on four of my guns now, two rifles and two handguns, and really like them.

quote:

If you do decide to "scope" it, think about a red dot instead. I am going to remove my scope from mine and replace it with an UltraDot. Less bulk, quicker on target, no parallax. I am using "dots" on four of my guns now, two rifles and two handguns, and really like them.

Good suggestion!

No, great suggestion!