My gut says yes, crimp it. Has anyone tried heavy cal. bullets (.454 up) w/ no crimp from a revolver? I would guess that boolits would back out, but I'm not certain. I shoot uncrimped .357s, but that doesn't really compare in recoil.

FWIW I've loaded 370 gr.WFNGC (hard)cast bullets over 44.5 gr. H110 for shooting pigs w/ my BFR.

Thanks,
Ron

Yeah, you'd better crimp. Besides WW296/H110 likes a firm bullet pull to get the party started.

Absolutely! In fact, NOT crimping would be asking for trouble....

Dennis

Crimp, unless you want the bullet to pull out and lock up your cylinder. I use the heaviest crimp I can get. My accuracy is great also.

OK, I went and crimped my un-crimped lot. I'm not so concerned w/ cylider lockup as Magnum Research uses a 45-70 cylinder bored to 500 S&W dimensions on the BFR, but I do know the effects of OAL on contistency of velocity and thus accuracy. I still might try an experiment, but after next weeks pig hunt. Thanks folks for your imput.

Ron

Good case neck tension goes a long way toward consistant ignition of powder charges and will hold much better than crimping. However, if you are shooting a cartridge that should be crimped, i.e. one that recoils heavily, you are indeed asking for reduced performance if not actually tieing the revolver up with bullet jumping.

quote:

Originally posted by rwsem:
OK, I went and crimped my un-crimped lot. I'm not so concerned w/ cylider lockup as Magnum Research uses a 45-70 cylinder bored to 500 S&W dimensions on the BFR, but I do know the effects of OAL on contistency of velocity and thus accuracy. I still might try an experiment, but after next weeks pig hunt. Thanks folks for your imput.

Ron

I have a BFR also in 500 Mag, If you don't give it a good crimp, you will have powder in your action and cylinder, I know I already did that. Nothing but heavy crimp for me. I would not want to be hunting and need a second shot that won't go off.

That's the kind of feedback I was looking for! Thanks Redhawk for the info. Some people say a smart person learns from their mistakes, but a smarter person learns from the mistakes of others...

Ron.

For reliability, any round used for hunting or self defense should be crimped, military ammo goes one step farther they crimp the primers so they will not back out and cause jams or misfires, the old saying goes the less things that cn go wrong the better off you arre..
for just plinking with mild loads crimping may not be ncessary however if a projectile comes lose and jams up your gun you can lose valuable time not to mention screwing around with a loaded gun that you can neutralise. For heavy loads a must
There is also a big argument for having consistant pressure.

Hi:

I shoot a 500 4.5 inch S&W with 370 grain CP bullets with 42 grains of H110. Even with a HEAVY CRIMP my bullets start to back out of the shells.

It's not a question of should you crimp, but how heavy a crimp you should put on. A HEAVY roll crimp seems to work best for me.

Regards... Jim P.

PA and Redhawk,
Just wondering, with the heavy crimp, are you getting much case stretch and what does the case life seem to be? I've loaded some 370 gr WFNGC over 44.5 gr. of H110. The range on Post doesn't open till Wednesday. Plan on shooting then.

I have some cases that I have loaded 10 times already, and no sign of case splitting or failing.

on the larger cases like 44 and the 500, h110 and w296 dont ignite well or consistantly in the colder or cooler weather.

any one here find any loading data for w296 in the 500?

quote:

Originally posted by nwwash:
on the larger cases like 44 and the 500, h110 and w296 dont ignite well or consistantly in the colder or cooler weather.

any one here find any loading data for w296 in the 500?

I use the same data for the W 296 as I do for the H 110. They are almost identical powders.

As far as cold weather and H 110 and W 296 not igniting well or consistently, I find it untrue. I shoot my 500 Mags and 460 Mags year around and never had one fail to ignite or find inconsistencies.

REDHAWK1, thanks for the info on 296. it sounds like you are an experianced hanloader,so you may never of had an ignition problem. but a wrong primer ( such as a lg pistol compared to a mag primer) may cause it. from articals i have read, its what some people say.the 500 was origionally designed with a small pistol or rifel primer and has sinced moved up to a large rifel primer- the only 2 things i can contribute to this is the volume of powder used and the style of powder( ball) being used

quote:

Originally posted by nwwash:
REDHAWK1, thanks for the info on 296. it sounds like you are an experianced hanloader,so you may never of had an ignition problem. but a wrong primer ( such as a lg pistol compared to a mag primer) may cause it. from articals i have read, its what some people say.the 500 was origionally designed with a small pistol or rifel primer and has sinced moved up to a large rifel primer- the only 2 things i can contribute to this is the volume of powder used and the style of powder( ball) being used

I have been reloading for over 20 years now, I was reloading the 500 Mag before I got the gun. I started reloading the 500 Mag when all the brass was using the Large Pistol primers, it was never designed to take any small primers, only the 454 Casull takes small rifle primers. I did not have an ignition problem then, but I did start reloading with the Large Rifle primers to keep in the reloading specs. My powders of choice for the 500 Mag are H110, W296 and Lil gun. With H110 being my first pick.

Two things, guys, I use 296 and the Federal 150 in my .44 and .45 for maximum accuracy. I shoot and hunt in all weather conditions and have never had a problem. Point of impact stays the same all year. The larger cases from .475 up need the magnum primer for accuracy. I experiment all year with this primer thing. I will never use a mag primer in the .44 or .45. They will triple group size. I recently shot an 1-1/4" 100 yd group with the .44 SBH using standard primers.
Second, crimp will not improve bullet pull for good ignition! you need CASE TENSION. I have spent years shooting cases with no crimp (loading one at a time in the revolver) all the way to a full profile that ruins cases. I find almost no difference in velocity or accuracy IF CASE TENSION IS CORRECT. So I am going to tell you not to depend on crimp correcting for poor tension from bad dies, undersize boolits or soft boolits.
Another experiment I did was to anneal a few .44 cases to even out tension. DON'T DO IT, it is a disaster. Fire one shot and all the rest of the boolits will pull out of the cases. Had to throw the brass out.
I have been playing with this stuff since 1956. All you need for crimp is enough to hold the bullet in under recoil. The larger the caliber and heavier the boolit, the more crimp is needed but if you are still having boolits move, your case tension is not tight enough.
One cause of this, if you have good dies, is loading too soft of a boolit so the brass actually sizes it down when seating. Of course this does not apply to jacketed bullets. But do not overlook good case tension with them either.
I only use a moderate crimp on the .475 and have left one in a chamber while I shot 8 shots from the rest and the boolit never moved. This is because I have good tension.
Back to the primer. Whenever changing primers, you have to work loads again. You can't just take the best load with any primer and substitute another and expect it to shoot the same.
I understand that some of you don't care about accuracy and will do anything to get the most velocity from a handgun. If maximum power is your god, nobody can help you hit what you shoot at. Some boolits shoot best at max, but most don't, something you have to find out by testing. Every different jacketed bullet takes a different charge also.

Shot these yesterday:
370gr WFNGC Trueshot bullits from Oregon Trail over 44.5 gr H110 heavy crimp. Result- nasty recoil and 1 1/2 groups at 50 yards. The velocity was all over the scale from 2330 to 2010- not certain why, I measured each individually.

275 gr. Barnes XPB over 42 gr. H110 light crimp. Result- medium recoil, cut a cloverleaf at 50 yards. Velocity was 1898 ave.

Both loads were primed w/ CCI 200 primers

Going pig hunting w/ the XPBs this weekend!

rwsem, let us know hoew you do, and good luck.

redhawk1,

i found the artical on the 110 not burning well.it was in hanloaders magazine from august 2005. it said that 110 produced some rather erratic velocitys in extremly cold weather,at least when capped incorectly with a standard primer

redhawk1,

btw, my friends 500 shoots well with lil gun.

Cleaned the BFR last night. No un-burned powder in the cylinder or bore using the H110 as posted above. There was alot of copper streaking. Guess I'll slug the barrel to see how tight it is. Really happy w/ the Barnes XPBs though.

Ron

quote:

Originally posted by nwwash:
redhawk1,

i found the artical on the 110 not burning well.it was in hanloaders magazine from august 2005. it said that 110 produced some rather erratic velocitys in extremly cold weather,at least when capped incorectly with a standard primer

What round were they shooting it in? The standard large rifle primer is very hot. But like I said, I have never experienced any problems.

quote:

Originally posted by nwwash:
redhawk1,

btw, my friends 500 shoots well with lil gun.

I like the Lil gun also, I use it for my real heavy bullets, 575 gr.

Do not substitute a large rifle magnum primer for the standard rifle primer in the .454, it is way too hot. The regular rifle primer is hotter pressure wise then a large pistol magnum primer as it is.
The reason I use standard primers in the .44 and .45 is because a magnum primer can push the boolit out of the case before the powder starts to burn right. The amount each boolit can move in a revolver is not the same from case to case and this effects the internal volume resulting in poor accuracy. Some bullets can be driven clear out to the forcing cone. My friend has found the same thing with his .41. Going down to a .357 or .357 max, the mag primer is OK because it is a small pistol without the force of a LP.
Going up to the .475 and larger, then the mag primer performs best. With a .44 or .45 single shot pistol or rifle without the cylinder gap of a revolver, the mag primer works good.
If I was hunting in extremely cold conditions, then the mag primer might be better but how cold is cold with 296 and H110? At what temperature is it affected?
When I use a mag primer in the .44, velocity and recoil increase but groups go to hell as to my specs which is 1" or less at 50 yd's. If you are satisfied with 3" to 4" at 50 yd's from a revolver, then go to it!
I have guys jump on me all the time saying they get good accuracy with mag primers from their Contender----That gun is a different animal!

RWSEM, you never mentioned what caliber you are shooting!

BFR shooter, the 454 Casull takes a small rifle primer, not the large rifle primer.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
RWSEM, you never mentioned what caliber you are shooting!

I started the thread with a question on the .500 S&W, but any large pistol info is valuable to me.
Oh, FWIW: Don't try to shoot my 370 gr load as listed above one handed off of a shooting stick w/ a bent elbow. 8 stitches in the forehead says it's not a good idea... stop laughing.....

Ron

Redhawk, your right, I just typed it without thinking. My mistake. I am so used to large primers I forget things. I don't own a .454 and never gave it a thought. The price of being old!

RWSEM, my friend shot my BFR .475 off the bench, two hands and sandbags. He split his head and the scope turret hit him in the eye. He had a remarkable shiner for weeks.
And guys say the .44 kicks too much! Don't you just love those BIG guns?

I love large caliber anything...I did go from the ER back to the range to finish zeroing. Company Commander thought I wuz nutz. I offered to let him shoot but sadly he declined...Oh well. We leave this afternoon and hunt pigs Sunday. Wish us luck.

Ron

Let us know how you did.

redhawk1,

the artical was mainly on 357/ 44 mag.but it also mentioned that hodgdon recomends a mag primer. i never had a problem either but i always crimp and use mag primers on my hunting loads

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
Let us know how you did.

Got skunked, didn't even see one in range, oh well that happens. My buddy killed two and another in the party killed one.

Confirmed zeros at the camp on the BFR and a TC in 30/30. I offered to let everyone shoot but there were no takers. Doesn't seem right; if someone asks me if I'd like to shoot their gun I usually do, just beeing friendly. Guess the stitches scared them off.

Oh well there will always be a next time.

Ron

Don't feel too bad. I save a lot of ammo when the tough guys refuse to shoot my guns. Makes me laugh a lot too.

Folks,
I've been contemplating a Mag-na-break or something similar or maybe a Shark Gill from OTT for the BFR. What do you think? Do you have any ported handguns? I never really thought about it before a pressed those 370 gr. 500 S&Ws to 2330fps and cracked my head.
Ron

I was having trouble with my BFR .475 on the first couple of deer. I creased the top of their backs and took off a pile of hair with no blood. I found that I was relaxing too much and the gun was rising so fast I hit high. ( Yes, I relax, deer do not bother me, having killed so many.) I have since practiced a lot from hunting positions and from a tree stand and have cured the problem. I did real well with it last season.
I was considering Magna-Port to hold it down but I shoot only cast boolits and was worried about lead fouling in the ports. The best thing is to hold the gun tighter and keep the arms as stiff like when shooting targets. I now have around 2000 shots from the gun and am very comfortable with it. I rarely shoot the .44 anymore except for a deer. I shoot one with each of my revolvers every season.

quote:

Originally posted by rwsem:
Folks,
I've been contemplating a Mag-na-break or something similar or maybe a Shark Gill from OTT for the BFR. What do you think? Do you have any ported handguns? I never really thought about it before a pressed those 370 gr. 500 S&Ws to 2330fps and cracked my head.
Ron

I sent my BFR to Mag-na-port and had 4 ports installed and the barrel cut down to 6 inches. Works great.

One of you guys may be able to help me, I shoot a .44mag single shot, I've tried crimped and un-crimped (get a better group un-crimped) and the cases always look a little bulged when I put a heavy crimp on them?
Is this my fault or the dies or something else?
I've only been handloading about 4 months

You might be trying to put too much crimp on it. First thing to do is adjust the seater to put the boolit in until the case mouth is at the very top of the crimp groove. Then adjust for a mild crimp. You don't need any in the single shot and for sure don't need one that bulges the brass. I don't use that hard of a crimp in my revolvers.
Your crimp die might not support the brass when crimping too. What brand of dies are you using?