For those that believe in the foot pounds of energy bs check out this thread from Shooters Forum:


WARNING: many published gunwriters have clearly explained why anything less that 1,000 ft-lbs of kinetic energy won't kill a whitetail deer.

That I why I wisely selected a bison (american buffalo) to try a load generating sub-part ballistic performance on, rather than risk wounding a tough 90 lb. whitetail. Also, deer are out of season here ....

Shot a bison this weekend with a handgun generating all of 882 ft-lbs of muzzle energy..... a 440 grain bullet, rated at 950 fps muzzle velocity. You can check the Beartooth kinetic energy calculater and verify these figures, but it comes to exactly 882 ft-lbs

The bison..... (which I don't have any idea how big it was, but big enough that the small tractor we picked it up with, had trouble keeping the back tires on the ground) took one shot through the lungs at about 30 or so yards.

Ran a short ways (like another 30 yards or so), I caught up with it, and put another shot within inches of the first. Bison spun around blowing blood out it's nose at the second shot.... clearly it already had some health problems from the first shot ... ..... and tipped over dead.

One more shot through the neck while it was on the ground, cause bullets are cheap, and ER visits are not

Here's a picture of the lungs, next to a cartridge.....

Oh and for the believers in kinetic energy, I might tell the tale of 'Stupid,' (can't print the other names we were using for him) a buffalo/Brahma cross which caused much havoc at the ranch... till one of the hunters put a 500 grain bullet from a .450 Nitro Express into it (5,133 ft-lbs of KE).

This made Stupid want to fight, and another 5,133 ft-lbs of energy were summed to end that altercation..... with 3 more 500gr. solids in my .458 Win Mag, waiting on deck.

So .... lesson learned..... 882 lbs. of KE are inadequate to stop a bison.... you need at least 10,266 lbs. of KE to stop a bison.

By the way... the quarters of a mature bison, pretty well fill up the bed of a Ford Ranger. So don't go shooting 90 lb. whitetails, with inadequate calibers, OK??????

MikeG has attached the following image(s):


__________________
MikeG


http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?p=202892#post202892

Look....until you can get the whitetails to read the "experts" words and know they aren't supposed to be killed with such a light load, you are wasting your time. Time better spent teaching a woodland creature to read.

It's funny you bring that up. I have argued on the archery forum about KE being useless until I hate to go there. I guess all the deer I have killed with heavy, slow arrows, heavy, slow round balls and heavy, slow handgun boolits must have read the wrong book.
It is refreshing to read a common sense post.
Thank you and congatulations on the bison. Good eats!

Caliber? Is that a .475 Linebaugh I see?

The caliber is 500JRH. Clisk on the link at the bottom and read the entire post Mike explains it latter in the thread

I shot a 1000 fpe-class whitetail through the lungs with a 260 gr JHP @ 1960 fps (roughly 1900 fpe) from a .454 Casull last season. The ignornant S.O.B. obviously couldn't read cuz he took a loooooooooooooooong time dying. Moral of the story: fpe doesn't tell the whole tale! I subscribe more to the Taylor Knockout Value way of thinking.

The thing that most people don't realize is that tissue damage and blood loss kills animals. The problem with KE is that it is a measure of the POTENTIAL to do damage. The way that the bullet/arrow etc.. actually does the damage and where (ie 1/2" under the skin, inside the vitals, or in the dirt 10 feet behind the animal) makes all the difference.

SO glad you brought this topic up. There are many of us older hunters out there that have been taking game for 40 plus years and apparently during that period of time none of the game had a formal education. From really stomping deer and Elk with a 12ga slug to taking the same game with .41 and .44 mag revolvers!
Had a friend shoot a 10'2" Brown Bear at fifteen feet twice with 325 cast bullets from
a 480 Ruger. One shot broke both front shoulders and the second shot was an immediate
follow up two inches away and the bear was done
a short time later.

Big is better!

Neal

I always liked big bore. But when I killed a feral cat with my 45 acp by impacting the spine [it did not penetrate the skin !!] I knew that numbers didn't mean much !