hey guys, I used to read these sites back in the late 90's early 00's, boy, the catagories have sure grown, wasn't this meny back then.My kid got a hold of my computer, and i lost it for a while, but i finaly got mine back.[ I bought him anew one.] Any way later this summer i'm going to buy another gun. I had a 480 ruger and liked it alot, but i had to sell it. So I'd like some advice. I've been reading a lot of posts, and there's a lot of info out there. I've narrowed down some calibers to 475,460,500s&w 500jh 500linebough 500we.My concern is recoil,I've read alot of your posts on balistics , but haven't seen to much on recoil. Now I'd rather have something on the ruger platform, but Ive seen that utube vidio of texas shooting the 475,that was a kick, and I've also seen a 500 s&w shot and it didn"t look to bad, but 500s&w is a big gun. I read some posts on the bfr in different cal but I'm not sure about the kick. Sorry for the long winded posts but I had to get it out.[ I don't even like typeing.]

Going with a larger caliber will allow bullet weight to work for you. You really don't have to load any of the larger calibers to firewall levels to be effective. Reloading will allow you to tailor your loads.

Hitman is correct, but somehow the HANDGUN HUNTIGN forum has become the domain of the HANDGUN RELOADER FORUM. Many of us using factory ammo actually hunt as surprising as that might seem.

Joe, I'll have to relate what I tell my students in handgun class: recoil is as much a state of mind as it is a physical force. The big calibers are going to rock you in one way or another. Either it's the perceived recoil or the overwhelming sounds or both. TO ME and TO ME only, I love the 460XVR S&W using the factory Hornady 200 grain SST bullets. This is a fast round but with the big framed Smith, the recoil is more than tolerable to those who are recoil sensitive. The drawback with the XVR however is SOUND AND FIRE. My .500 S&W Mag may recoil more (especially with some of the heavier bullets Redhawk gives me to stoke those holes with), but NOTHING has the SOUND AND FIRE of the 460. It assaults your senses and you'd better be wearing glasses along with plugs and muffs to shoot it. From the physical recoil however, I've had .357 hot loads that were more uncomfortable to shoot.

Now mind you, the 200 grain might be a tad on the small size for larger game and longer distances, but it is a laser to shoot. It's supposed to be a 200+ yard gun though I'm not that good. I do know that if you're zero at 25 you'll be right on at 100 with that load and it won't break your wrist to get you there.

Thanks for the info, I do have a couple reloaders, so I can work up different loads.I like the ruger or freedom arms size, good carry guns. But my wrists are over 50.

Thanks George, Thats kinda what I thought about the s&w, larger gun, less recoil, I've never been by one being shot.

Hello joess and welcome to the forum. George Roof is just jealous that he doesn't roll his own! It's a lot simpler to buy factory ammo.......

Anyhow, there are several factors in play that affect the recoil a handgun generates, that have already been covered here by others, weight being a very critical factor. I don't find the X-frame Smiths offensive to shoot (excluding those crazy 700 grain loads that I have yet to shoot!) because they are much heavier than many other production revolvers. One of the more unpleasant configurations for the recoil sensitive is the .454 Casull Ruger Super Redhawk. Even with lighter bullets in factory loads they just seem to kick, and it is a sharp recoil pulse. The .480 in the SRH produces a different quality of recoil especially with heavy bullets where it torques more in your hand and produces more of a push than the Casull's slap. Generally, double action revolvers abuse the shooter more than single actions IMHO, as the recoil comes back more than it goes up.

Let me ask you this, do you want a single action or a double action revolver? There are some really nice revolvers and I really like BFR's offerings -- lots of bang for the buck.

If you don't like the big frame of the S&W 460 and 500 Mags, I would say look at the BFR in 475 or the precision shop BFR in 500jhr. But in my opinion the S&W 460 and 500 mags are great guns, they can be loaded down to very comfortable levels. The S&W 460 can also shoot the 454 Casull and 45 Colts. The 454 Casull's in the S&W X-frame are like, a light 44 Mag and the 45 Colts loaded hot are like the 38 special as far as the recoil is concerned.

But I don't know why you did not mention the 480 Ruger in your list, I just got one a month ago, and I love the thing. It is a tack driver and the recoil is very manageable even with the top loads.

Another gun that is one of my favorites is my BFR in 45-70, I think it is one on my most accurate handgun I own. It can go from mild to wild.

But any of the rounds you mentioned will serve you well, good luck in your quest.

This is a list of the big bore handguns I have,
S&W 460 Mag PC 7.5 inch barrel,
S&W 500 Mag 4 inch barrel,
Encore 500 Mag 8 inch barrel,
BFR custom 500 Mag 6 inch barrel,
Ruger Super Redhawk JHR custom 454 Casull 2.5 inch barrel,
Ruger Super Redhawk 480 Ruger 7.5 inch barrel,
Encore 480 Ruger 12 inch barrel,
Encore 454 Casull 10 inch barrel,
Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt 4 5/8 inch barrel
BFR 45-70 Govt 10 inch barrel and a
LAR Grizzly 45 Win Mag.

So I have a little experience with large bore handguns.

Redhawk, he did mention that he had a .480 and he liked it a lot. No doubt there is a lot of versatility built into Smith & Wesson's X-frames. We just need to determine what he wants: SA or DA and how much he wants to spend. Hard pressed to find a better deal than a BFR and they are available in a plethora of big-bore calibers as you pointed out.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Hello joess and welcome to the forum. George Roof is just jealous that he doesn't roll his own! It's a lot simpler to buy factory ammo.......

Anyhow, there are several factors in play that affect the recoil a handgun generates, that have already been covered here by others, weight being a very critical factor. I don't find the X-frame Smiths offensive to shoot (excluding those crazy 700 grain loads that I have yet to shoot!) because they are much heavier than many other production revolvers. One of the more unpleasant configurations for the recoil sensitive is the .454 Casull Ruger Super Redhawk. Even with lighter bullets in factory loads they just seem to kick, and it is a sharp recoil pulse. The .480 in the SRH produces a different quality of recoil especially with heavy bullets where it torques more in your hand and produces more of a push than the Casull's slap. Generally, double action revolvers abuse the shooter more than single actions IMHO, as the recoil comes back more than it goes up.

Let me ask you this, do you want a single action or a double action revolver? There are some really nice revolvers and I really like BFR's offerings -- lots of bang for the buck.

George does not have to reload, I do it for him...lol He lovs them 575 gr. hard cast bullets I load up for him for his S&W 500 Mag.

As for the 700 gr. bullets, I shot a few of them today in my 4 inch 500 Mag. My 440 gr. bullets were right on target at 25 yards, the hot loaded 700 gr. bullets (1200 fps) hit 4 inches higher than the 440 gr. bullet . I also had some lighter loaded 700 gr. bullets loaded at around (900 fps) and they were about 6 inches higher then the 440 gr, loads in my 500 Mag. The groups were consistent but at different heights.

The hot loaded 700 gr. bullets will make you think twice about shooting a few cylinders full.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Redhawk, he did mention that he had a .480 and he liked it a lot. No doubt there is a lot of versatility built into Smith & Wesson's X-frames. We just need to determine what he wants: SA or DA and how much he wants to spend. Hard pressed to find a better deal than a BFR and they are available in a plethora of big-bore calibers as you pointed out.

I would have to agree with you there, the BFR is a great platform. But if someone looks around, a lightly used S&W 460 and 500 Mags can be had for some great prices. I have seen some used BFR at really great prices also.

Yes I read he at one time had a 480 Ruger, but was wondering why he did not include it in his list of gun.

That's the beauty of these big kickers -- there are lots of slightly (very slightly) used guns on the market (with a half a box of ammo) from those who read about them and ran out and bought 'em.......after they touched off the first round, they decided that they really didn't need one after all....... Means there are more for us!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
That's the beauty of these big kickers -- there are lots of slightly (very slightly) used guns on the market (with a half a box of ammo) from those who read about them and ran out and bought 'em.......after they touched off the first round, they decided that they really didn't need one after all....... Means there are more for us!

I think the biggest problem is when some get a big bore, they look for the biggest bullet also and usually Cor-bon is the one they get, and we all know Cor-bon loads some hot loads.
People do not take the time to find a milder load that will actually make these big bores not as bad in the recoil department.

And like I tell a lot of guys that ask me about the 460 and 500 mags, they are not for everyone, I tell them if they find the recoil of the 44 Mag on the heavy side, that they should just stick with the 44 Mag.

Then there are some of us, that for whatever reason like recoil.

For rifle range hunting, the 460 S&W Magnum is the best in my opinion.

Believe it or not, I found a S&W 460 S&W Mag. revolver more pleasant to shoot than a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Rem. Mag. The S&W 460 is big which means heavy and if you put a scope on it, it's even heavier. The muzzle brake also helps.

If you're recoil sensitive, don't go for the 500 S&W. Some would say it's recoil is harsh even with the brake.

Recoil is something you can get used to and soon you don't think about it too much. Grip shape and design is more important for being able to shoot a lot.
If the back of the trigger guard always slams your finger, you will hate the gun. But you can fix that with the proper grips.
On the average I would say the BFR's are more pleasant to shoot because they are fairly heavy. The big Smiths are heavy too.
I had a .357 here for almost two years and shot thousands of shots out of it. That little bugger HURT. It needed a grip change.

I do have to agree with Grumulkin, my S&W 460 Mag is my long range handgun, besides my 308 Win Encore 15 inch pistol. At 150 yards, I can consistently hit 4 inch clay targets with 300 gr. hard cast bullets from the S&W 460 Mag. I am sighted in 1 inch high at 100 yards and I hold dead on at 150 yards and the gun is right on at 150.
Reloading is the best way to go when it come to big bore handguns.

Reloading is the only way to go in my opinion as well. You can then taylor your loads to your own gun and recoil tolerances. Not only is Corbon ammo loaded hot, so is Buffalo Bore! If BB claims 1,350 fps, you can bet you'll see 1,400!! Hey, these big handguns aren't for everybody!

.308, 15-inch barrel, that's no pistol! You've got yourself a hand-held rifle, Redhawk!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:


.308, 15-inch barrel, that's no pistol! You've got yourself a hand-held rifle, Redhawk!

Yea some call them that, but I still have to hold them like a pistol. I have been a long time contender handgun shooter, and now I like the Encore pistols. I have 4 great set ups, S&W 500 Mag, 480 Ruger, 454 Casull and the 308 Win. I don't exchange barrels on one frame, each of my barrels has it's own frame. I do have a 16 inch 223 pistol set up also, great for ground hogs and fox.

Whitworth, I'm not silly enough to argue with your statement on reloading. Redhawk does mine when I'm not buying factory and then he does it AFTER I shoot the factory stuff, but this category on the AR site has simply become a PISTOL RELOADING FORUM. I seldom see hunting here and you "ogres" (I'm just kidding with that term, so don't get defensive - you guys know you sheperd over this category) always turn any hunting post into "how many grains, what type powder, what velocity, etc." And before anyone says it, YES, this is a "reloading" site, but I don't read any of that stuff in the Taxidermy, Bow Hunting, Canadian Hunting, Asian Hunting, Small Game Hunting, Spear Hunting & Fishing, Alaskan Hunting, New Zealand Hunting, et al. In the New Zealand Hunting today they're talking about the ethics (or lack thereof) of hunting tahr from a helicopter. On THIS forum, if you don't talk reloading, you're considered a pariah.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Going with a larger caliber will allow bullet weight to work for you. You really don't have to load any of the larger calibers to firewall levels to be effective. Reloading will allow you to tailor your loads.

If you do not load your own, and prefer to not acquire the hobby, consider acquiring dies and perhaps a bullet mold. Were you to placed WANTED queries here and Castboolits.com, you would almost certainly find a new friend who would be happy to invest time with you while he handloaded your ammunition.
***
I anticipate when this reference to "larger" caliber was made, MS Hitman means .475-.511-caliber bullets. In this neighborhood you can load 420-grain bullets (give or take) at 800 fps and have satisfactory downrange results while achieving moderate recoil.
***
A point you dance around is: When does a handgun become so ungainly to use and carry that, regardless of its other merits, it is to be avoided? My personal limit excludes S&W X frames. I am too small to be comfortable carrying the revolver or holding it to fire. I have an acquaintance who has T/C Contenders that are so large he must use a bipod to aim them. While I have no problem with others using these, a short rifle does the job more conveniently.

Although I desperately wanted a 9.5-inch barrelled Super Redhawk .480 Ruger, I recognize that the 7.5-inch version is my practical limit for a convenient-to-use/carry revolver. So these are what I have.

In the single action world Freedom Arms' Model 83 .475 Linebaugh or .500 WE with 7.5-inch barrel occupies the same position. Since I would load the FA .475 and .500WE with essentially the same bullet weight and shape at the same velocity, I refer to them as the same. I would shop for one by something other than caliber offered. . . . And I did.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
Whitworth, I'm not silly enough to argue with your statement on reloading.

Lighten up, George, it was a joke. Yes, this forum is seemingly dominated by folks who roll their own, but this is typically the nature of the beast. Handgun hunters are more hardcore in my estimation than a lot of other types of hunters. Major ammunition manufacturers cater to glitz and bling in the form of shiny jacketed bullets. While this works for much of the game that can be shot, it often leaves much to be desired, forcing those who want to maximize the performance of their handgun to reloading. Yes, there are specialty manufacturers that load great ammo (Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, etc.), the reloader can do better and save a considerable amount of money in the process. And, if you shoot a lot, this is the only option, and if you are a handgun hunter, you need to practice a lot as it is more difficult than hunting with a scoped rifle. The defense rests.........

Whitworth, I really wasn't being smart there. I agree totally with what you've said. And I know full well that had it not been for the enterprizing efforts of handgunners, manufacturers would have never discovered the .357 or the .44. Keith was a guy like you and the others here who always wanted to push the envelope and without it, we'd be still shooting .38 specials and .45 Colts. But it's just not something that some of us "get into". That doesn't mean we can't shoot, it just means we don't reload and because of that, it shouldn't keep this category from being for us as well. Redhawk's bustin' my chops right now telling me that my factory bullet is OK for groundhogs but I need to step up to a heavier bullet for black bears. (Realistically, at 25 yards, that 200 grainer should put any bears dick in the dirt, but I'm a big FAT guy whose hand fits the X frame quite well and I enjoy pulling the trigger.)


NOW, the good thing about this category is that guys like you (Whitworth) and Hitman KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE that a handgun can and will perform better if somthing other than factory ammo is fed to it. I'd never know that unless it was for guys like you and Redhawk working with the loads to make me a better shooter than I was. Again, I wasn't being a wiseass, just stating a fact.

I'm a bit like Naphtali in that shortening a rifle doesn't make it a pistol for me, but if someone enjoys it, then my opinion is moot anyway.

George, are you going to use that itty-bitty 200 grain Hornady on black bear? You are a brave man! Jeese, George, get Redhawk to load you some of those 395 grain WFNs he shoots. I wouldn't trust that bullet on deer and I don't give a damn how fast it is going, but if it hits a bone at 2000 + fps, it will most certainly fail.

Whitworth,
George is using his 500 Mag as his first choice with 575 gr. hard cast bullets, he was taking his S&W 460 as a back up gun, just incase something went wrong with the S&W 500 Mag, but I doubt it will.

He has a bunch of them Hornady factory 200 gr. ammo, and was thinking of taking them. I told him I would load up some 300 gr. hard cast bullets to use instead. I think the 300 gr. at a moderate load will work great, I could even load him up some 370 and 395, but it is up to him. All the shooing will be up and close for this hunt. So the 300 gr. hard cast will work well in my opinion.

George shoot's a lot of factory rounds in his rifles and handguns, but he left out the part where I reload all his brass, so he shoot's a lot of my reloads also. I load, 338 Win Mag, 300 Win Mag, 270 Win, 243 Win, 45 Colt, 460 Mag and 500 Mag for him. Don't let him fool ya, he loves them big bullets also.

George didn't indicate that he was going to use his .500. Hurry up and load him some hardcasts for the .460!

It just pays to reload.

I totaly agree with Withworth and Redhawk1, the flat point hard cast will get the job done every time every day 24/7. Those little ole Horanady 200 grains are trouble and sooner or latter will leave one hanging and that ruins an otherwise good hunt.

I was out in the garage today, I clean up a bunch of 480 Ruger, 500 mag and 460 mag brass, I sized and belled the cases, now all I have to do is prime them and put some powder and bullets and I will be all caught up with my handgun reloading tell the next trip to the range.

I am loading up some 300 gr. hard cast WFN for Georges 460 Mag, the 575 gr. I loaded up for him for the 500 mag are very accurate in his 8 3/8 inch S&W 500 Mag.

George has been shooting them 575 gr. bullets for over 2 years now, he has been wanting to kill something with them, so in August he will get his chance on black bear.

I have decided to take my Ruger 480 and my 4 inch 500 mag as a back up to the 480.
I was shooting the center out of the target yesterday with it. Between George and I, we cut the center out of all the targets we put up there yesterday, don't let George fool you, he is very proficient with a handgun, he just has not been a big hunter with a handgun.

JWP, once I get George shooting them 300 grainer's in his 460, he will like them as well. I use them in my 460 Mag for deer.

I am glad to hear that you are loading hardcasts for George's .460 -- it's the only choice as far as I am concerned. I am also glad to hear that you are going to use the .480! I think you will be pleased with the way it performs.

George, your right about perceived recoil,years ago [ when we were young and a lot smarter] none of us thought to much about hearing protection, but as we got older and dumber, the crack of a 357 was loud. And when I started shooting a 44mag, we got some muffs, and noticed a big difference in perceived recoil when you got rid of the blast. Whitworth: I like the single actions but it doesen't matter, maybe i'll get as many as redhawk1, son, thats quite a collectoin of big bores.

joess -- then look no further than BFR. More bang for the buck isn't available if you want a big-bore single-action. They are tough as nails, accurate (the ones I've shot), and available in some great calibers -- oh, and priced right.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
joess -- then look no further than BFR. More bang for the buck isn't available if you want a big-bore single-action. They are tough as nails, accurate (the ones I've shot), and available in some great calibers -- oh, and priced right.

Priced right? What ever do you mean? They are exceptionaly priced for what you get when compared to the compition.

Yea, the BFR is a great gun. I have 2 of them and both are exceptional guns.

I do like my big bore handguns,

I have a little differnt opinion of bfrs then some here but ill leave it at that. Thing is with any gun 454 or bigger is youve stepped into a differnt league then guns like the 44mags and they take much more work to master and probably half the guys that try never do master them. As to which recoils more i dont think it matters a bit. They all recoil ALOT and do it in any platform you put them in. If you can shoot a 454 you can shoot a 500 linebaugh. To me its allways been more of a mental thing then a phyical thing and once you get yourself convinced that your not going to get hurt you can handle about any handgun. Now this doesnt include guns like the linebaugh max or the smiths when running 600 grain bullets. There in a differnt league again and even I have to ambition to try to master something like that. As to grip frames that make it SLIGHTLY easier to handle. Ive shot them all and to me the easiest to shoot is the FA frame. I hate to admit it but it seems to bite me just a tad less then a bisley frame. But then the next gun might have a differnt opinion as everyones hands and arms are differnt. Bottom line is they all recoil very heavily and in my opinion no grip frame design is going to take away from the fact that you will need to do alot of work to master one of them and that a guy that doesnt handload or even a guy who doesnt cast is going to have to morgage his home to shoot enough to truely master a big gun. A guy that doesnt cast or load is much better off sticking with a 44 mag. Im not trying to be snotty in any way but the old saying that if you have to ask your probably not ready applys to big bore handguns more then about anything.

Lloyd, I agree with all you said, but I would like your opinion on the BFR, seeing how you already put your foot in the door..lol

I believe it is true that once you step over the 44 Mag mark, you are in a different league. I have been shooting the 454 Casull so long now and the 500 Mag for over 5 years. There are some days I wonder why I do it, but after a few shoots, I soon forget why I questioned myself.

Lloyd, perhaps you're correct and perhaps I'm incapable of relating it, so I'll admit that up front, but TO ME, the .454 Casull simply doesn't fit in that category. Redhawk and I seem to make a living swapping guns back and forth (he's always taking advantage of me ) but he now owns a Ruger JRH "Streethawk" that I found to be no more uncomfortable than a .44 Mag or even some of the hot .357 loads. I'd expect someone who was shoot .38's to have a rude awakening if they picked up the .500 with those 600 grainers in them, but for some reason, I'd assume the a real handgunner would keep stepping up before they end up with that .500 in their mitts. (Oh, I understand there's a lot of macho's out there who go in and buy one just to brag but they're the ones Hitman and Whitworth talk about giving good deals on the super magnums). Of both those guns, the .460 is, TO ME, no worse than the .454 or even some .44 Mag hot loads. It surely does raise all kinds of hell with noise and fire, but the recoil just isn't that bad. I'm not sure I'd ever want to shoot either round, however, in any frame less than the "X" or the BFR frames.

As you stated, George, put that .460 in a Super Redhawk sized (read: weight) gun, and your perception of its recoil will change significantly. I was on the Smith site and an 8 3/8-inch X-frame wighs in at 72.5 ounces empty! That's why they don't kick that hard! You have to get crazy with the loads like Redhawk1 and DEC do with those 700 grain .500 loads and then they get real uncomfortable to shoot! The SRH being a much smaller platform weighs a "mere" 48 ounces. My .475 will smack you in the forhead if you loosen your grip too much, and the .454 SRH isn't far behind it when loaded heavily (particularly with 400 grain bullets at 1400 fps). I am just comparing the two becasue they are the two most predominant DA revolvers out there in big calibers.

Yes, Lloyd, do tell!

In that context, I can see you're right. I wouldn't want a cherrybomb to blow up in my hand (had that happen as a kid), so weight to "thrust" ration is certainly a serious consideration. Thanx.

Another quick way of telling the recoil of a round is put it in a Encore 10 inch or 8 inch barrel with no muzzle break. The 454 Casull, 460 and 500 Mags, will make even the biggest bad ass think twice about shooting hot loads in them.


Hay George I don't take advantage of you all the time on them gun trades, there are some times I get it in return. lol
Plus you get the guns already tested and know what will shoot the best in them. I just saved you a lot of range time, and I know how hard it is to get you out there...

Would the 454 460 or the 500 without a brake have more recoil than say a 458 Win Mag 14 inch barrel with a brake pushing a 550 gr at 1675 fps or a 50 Alaskan with a 700 gr bullet at 1400 fps?

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
Would the 454 460 or the 500 without a brake have more recoil than say a 458 Win Mag 14 inch barrel with a brake pushing a 550 gr at 1675 fps or a 50 Alaskan with a 700 gr bullet at 1400 fps?

I don't know, I don't have a 458 Win Mag barrel for my Encore or a 50 Alaskan. But I am pushing a 700 gr. bullet 1200 fps in my S&W 500 Mag and know I could push it up to 1400 fps, but don't think I would want to be the one to pull the trigger. Are you volunteering????

Witworth, I just got a catalog from bfr today and they look pretty good. I'll have to go to a couple of gun shops in the area too get a closer look. If I buy a new one, it's either that one or a new s&w. Lloyd, Im on a fact finding mission here and thats whats great about the internet, It's like being at the coffee shop with your friends and finding out what works for everybody.Now if you got a different opinion about bfrs, I'd like to hear it,everybody has different tastes, nothing wrong with that. I'm not too fussy about which gun or caliber I'm going to get, because there will be more coming after that. It's just shopping for em. I seen some nice deals on freedom arms with scopes on them [slightly used] for 1400--1600 on the auction sites