But I thought you agreed that bow hunting is harder? If you allow other guns to be used with bows, don't you think season times will be shortened? I thought you were a bow hunter, don't you like the extra time?
Even if I never shot a bow, do you think I would ask to take the hunting time from archers? You have plenty of time to kill deer. Have you lost ethics?
I kill a lot of deer and give away a lot of deer. I will give away 5 this season alone. Come hunt with me, if I kill a deer and you don't. you can have mine.
What is this friction about? Leave the archers and ML hunters alone. I thought we were brothers, not greedy so and so's. You have a choice, take the bow and go hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
But I thought you agreed that bow hunting is harder? If you allow other guns to be used with bows, don't you think season times will be shortened? I thought you were a bow hunter, don't you like the extra time?
Even if I never shot a bow, do you think I would ask to take the hunting time from archers? You have plenty of time to kill deer. Have you lost ethics?
I kill a lot of deer and give away a lot of deer. I will give away 5 this season alone. Come hunt with me, if I kill a deer and you don't. you can have mine.
What is this friction about? Leave the archers and ML hunters alone. I thought we were brothers, not greedy so and so's. You have a choice, take the bow and go hunting.

bfrshooter, ethics has jack to do with any of this discussion. So lets not start an ethic's debate here!
Yes bow hunting is harder compared to a handgun, I am also very successful bow hunting deer.
I don't need to come hunt with you, I kill deer as well. And I don't need you to kill one for me. Maybe you need to go to some of these States that only have a month long season, and you choose what you want to hunt with. I have hunted these States, and I always chose a firearm.

One reason I bow hunt is, it gets me out in the woods early and it gives me something to do when I am not gun hunting.

I am not a greedy so and so either, I usually only kill what I need for myself, I don't see a need to kill 5 deer just to give to others, if I do happen to kill more deer than I need I donate it to feed the hungry. I have passed on deer this year that I could of killed. So I am not a greedy so and so.

For some the handgun is more difficult, for others the Bow. Depends on the ability of the individual, as usual.

well, first off, lets sum up the discussion.

advantages to revolver
1) range
2) accuracy for the most part if both are good
3) ability to not worry about shot angle. i.e. you can center punch any animal with a pistol and stupid to try it with a bow.

advantages to the bow
none



bow hunting is harder, sure some sap that's never fired a gun but has shot a bow for years may be better with the bow but that's not the question.


as far as light vs heavy arrows, i've been bowhunting for a long long time now and take my sons as they are finally old enough to go. we use trad equipment. the single most important piece of the penetration equation is straight arrow flight and broadhead style. if the penetration is poor with the light carbon at 300fps it's b/c the broadhead sucks and the arrow isn't flying true.



two years ago my son killed a 175lb hog with an arrow through the shoulder into the vitals from a longbow that pulled #29 at a 21.5" draw length. it worked and worked on deer as well (duh) b/c his arrows flew like darts. i've seen 80lb compounds with arrows that were 200 grains heavier not get the penetration he did. poundage and arrow weight is sooooo secondary it's ridiculous. i have shot completely through an elk shoulder bone and out the other side with a 50lb longbow and a 500 grain arrow b/c my set up was perfect. not b/c arrow weight or poundage.

btw, there's several places to easily get carbon shafts that will weight over 1000 grains or more without double shafting/etc.

Redhawk, I shoot extra deer for the ladies that let me hunt their land. Each will take 2 and help butcher and wrap the meat. Then another neighbor that lets me hunt will take another.
I put 2 in my freezer. The smaller and younger the better for me.
Once enough are killed I quit hunting. More need to be taken each year but I will NOT kill another if the meat is not used. I don't feed the hungry because they want me to pay the butcher and it is not what I want to do on SS.
If I meet a hunter when I have a deer down and he has had no luck, I will offer him my deer. I have had scum try to steal deer, all they needed to do was to ask me. Why be scum when I would just give them a deer?
Our season opened long ago and I have been out 4 times, maybe 10 to 12 hours in the woods and I have 2 deer, I have no idea when I will get up or go out in the evening again, no hurry, I will get a lot more. Does need killed, they are everywhere. Come and thin this herd!

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
advantages to the bow
none

Not true -- they're quiet -- if you flub the first shot, you may get another.......

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
For some the handgun is more difficult, for others the Bow. Depends on the ability of the individual, as usual.

Welcome back, JWP!

The Truth is the advantage if you are a good Archer is with The Bow.if I was just interested in the meat I could get one the first couple weeks of the season while they are still stupid.I now only hunt Buck with the Bow as we always get The pre rut and rut in our season.Hopefully a nice one gets dumb then.Once the Gun Deer season starts,getting one with a handgun makes any Buck a trophy.We have 600,000 to 750,000 Hunters in the Woods opening day of Gun season.The Deer get killed or smart real fast!!!!!

With many bucks I have yet to make the antlers tender enough to chew. I learned long ago that good meat is a trophy and that a mature doe is harder to get a shot at.

If shooting a pistol with iron sights only, my vote would say that shooting a pistol at big game is harder than with a bow.

I've only taken two big game animals with a pistol but around 35 critters like deer, elk and bear with a bow shooting instinctive. Out here in the West our bow shots are usually longer than in other parts of the country and a 40-50 yard shot is not uncommon. I have taken deer and elk beyond 50 yards.

It also seems that bow hunters practice more than pistol shooters in my experience.

I am well over 260 deer with a bow but there is a problem with compound bows that I never had with recurve bows. High frequency noise that makes a deer bolt before the arrow gets to them. Since it got cold and I can hear the trains and whistles very clear, deer can't be hit anymore. I missed two that bolted. I can't hear the sound and my bows sound quiet.
New bows like the Mathews are packed with sound suppression devices but are so expensive, I would get an old recurve first.
In my opinion, archery has gotten harder and more expensive then a revolver. Even arrow prices are out of sight. Then most are too light for penetration and those tiny broadheads, what is that about?
When you can't aim where you want to hit a deer but have to anticipate where the deer will be when the arrow gets there, bow hunting loses the enjoyment.
I have tried to figure out where the high frequency sound comes from with no luck. But it is real, it spooks deer and it is almost impossible to get a second shot.
Archery is not easy anymore.

You can't hear the sound? So then you don't know what it sounds like. That would imply something other than sound maybe, or you could have hearing deficiency on high frequency sounds that are coming from your equipment. In any event your low range hearing seems OK with being able to hear the low frequency train sounds and the whistles (I think you meant horns..diesels don't have whistles..most have multi-chime horns). But, maybe someone else has the real answer..

Another interesting comparison between handgun and archery is, which can you hold at "full draw" the longest? I don't know about archery, but I had a doe last year at about 10 yds absolutely wear me out when she stopped with a big tree right between us and tried to wait me out. She was unto me. I was sure being that close she heard me breathing or my heart pounding or something. I held that SW Model 29 out stretched til my arms were in pain, then finally spotted a couple inches of space between two trunks to slip the bullet between. As I was tightening the trigger she bolted.

I actually was trying to use the tree as a "blind" to raise the gun while she couldn't see me, but she had to pick just then to suspect something...I don't know how long it was but it seemed forever. Is this sort of thing a real problem with archery?

Yes it is. I can't stand the 80% let off bows so I can't hold very long. The draw must be timed very close to taking the shot.
I also have a high frequency hearing loss and can't hear a high pitched "THONK." No way I can find it. But some days a deer will not move at all and other days they are gone right now. I know it is a sound I can't hear and those weather conditions that get the sound to the deer faster. I have had deer spin away at 10 yards, then the next time out they don't move.
Compare it to the noise of cocking the hammer, deer will spook, but the shot itself has little effect and all the other deer will stay there if the one you shot does not run. I have killed a large deer out of a herd and when it dropped the rest of the deer laid down too.
You can make a lot of noise without scaring deer but just the slightest high frequency sound will make them bolt. Blow one of those silent dog whistles around deer once and you will see instant scramble.
Even a crossbow is VERY loud but will not make deer bolt. I do not think it is the sound level but the frequency. I also do not know if it has been solved with the new bows.
I have shot through many deer with a recurve and they did not run, some even ate more apples before starting to shake their heads to stay awake. Not so with a compound, they ALL run when shot. So do all the other deer around and if they don't go far, they get super cautious.
Years ago I took a Jennings compound and pre- loaded it to make it faster. I could not hit anything alive. If I shot at a squirrel on the ground, it would be 15' up a tree barking before my arrow hit the ground. I killed one buck with it at 25 yards. At the shot, he bolted, spun around and ran back the other way. I hit him on the opposite side through the liver.
There is a major problem with sound, give me a revolver any day!
Today everyone wants a faster bow but guess what? You can't beat a deer's reactions.

Well I guess my thoughts vary from many of the comments here but I've hunted with both the handgun and the bow. And over the last 21 years I've guided thousands of hunters, many with handgun and archery gear.

If a person has a short rifle and they're calling it a handgun (scoped T/C or bolt gun) and are shooting off sticks or other solid rest then they obviously have a huge advantage over archery gear. But if you take the average sportsman sneaking around in the woods with an open sighted big bore handgun there is no way they could touch holes at 20 or 30 yards shooting standing unsupported like most archery shooters with quality compounds, carbon arrows, high end sights and releases can.

Honestly from what I've seen the average guy with a big bore revolver is typically pretty awful with it. I've seen rediculous misses with big revolvers. Even on finish off shots of just a few feet people will sometimes miss the entire animal.

That said - it seems like in the last 10 years I've had more archery hunters show up with wooden recurves or long bows even with wooden arrows and feathers than I've seen guy with modern compounds and releases. Of course with the primitive equipment those guys always shoot instinct. That is some seriously difficult shooting! I've seen guys who practice an incredible amount hunt for years before they finally connect on an animal with the vintage gear.

I think there has to be a little more definition before you can say one is more difficult than the other.