Fellow handgunners,
Do you have a favorite load - .44 Rem. Mag.(bullet?), for black bear? This would be for a hound hunt for this coming fall.
I intend to carry a Ruger Redhawk SS w/ 5 1/2" bbl. holstered on my belt. It has had the butt rounded, trigger job, plus replacement front sight. It shoots quite well on paper.
Thank you in advance for your help!
Brittman
P.S. Sorry if this has been discussed prior?

I took one several years ago with my Ruger 10.5 inch Blackhawk....out of it this load went 1400 fps...

With my 5.5 inch Ruger the following:

240 gr Hornady XTP
23. gr H110
CCI 350 primer; Rem. Case
1175 fps

as I,ve never hunted with hounds , and don,t know how big the bears are you will be hunting , nor wether over penatration is a problem I can,t say what specific load would be ideal for you . But I will say that a 300 plus grain bullet @ aroung 1200 plus fps works well. I guess about as well or better than anything lighter .
.
I have passed up taking good black bear with the 41 mag with factory 210 gr loads because the only shot I had was a rear quartering or straight away shot and I didn,t think that load had enough penatration . With the 300 gr 44 mag load I would have smashed the hips , imobilized the bear and then taken a heart or head shot . A small black bear can be taken with a people round . But I,ve been close to black bear in the 800 lb weight class .
Theres a big difference between a black bear @ a bait station that weighs 250 lbs where you can take a broadside shot and one thats spinning like the button on an outhouse door that weighs 500 lbs . ...

Swift-A-frame ,Speer DC [like GD but heavier construction] Barnes all copper. These range from 225 to 280 and all will provide expansion and penetration.They are available as factory ammo if you don't reload.

BITW, Gumboot 458 and Mete,
Thank you all for your great info - I really appreciate it! Now, I have some ideas to go by.
Best of luck to you all in the field. I will post my results and what I finally used, when I return in late Sept. I'm assuming I will be shooting upward @ a 200 lb. to 400 lb. black bear. Thanks again for your input!
Brittman

garret makes a 330 gr hardcast that fits your bill nicely

And Double Tap produces a nice 320 grain WFN load that I have used on hogs and they work very well.

There are a lot of factors to be considered when bear hunting but choosing the right bullet is maybe the most important. Its always better to have to much than not enough when hunting bears.
For the stand hunter or someone hunting with dogs you can usually pick your shot, also when hound hunting there's usually another person there to back you up. A 300 gr jacketed slug will work fine & I know a guy thats taken several with the 300 gr Sierra.
My choice is always good cast slugs because I sometimes have to take a bad angle shot & I want an exit from any angle, I could care less if I have to take a rear end shot, I know my slug is going to end up in the vitals.
There are some here with lots of bear experience, I've only taken 6 but I've been in on another 20-25 & every encounter is different. We only hunt them spot & stalk, I have no desire to shoot one over bait.
My best bear was a 6' 9" whopper taken with a 10 1/2" Ruger 44 maggie using a 250 gr Keith cast slug & 22 grs of 2400, it smacked him hard at about 65 yds (I think) penetrated completely & he rolled down the ridge towards me, ended up in a sitting position facing me, I whacked him in the center chest just for good measure, the first shot killed him.

This is my biggest handgunned bear, Ruger 44 maggie.



Same bear after I undressed him!


One of my son's with one of 5 he's taken.



Another son with a 7' 9" record book bear, one of 7 he's taken.


Another blonde phase bear.



Another one of my son's with a great bear. This is one of 3 he's taken.


Me with a small bear taken 15 years ago.


Dick

I use a 315 cast gas checked out a lee mould with wheel weights dropped into a bucket of water from the mold. loaded with a max load of H110.

I have shot several large hogs wih it inclueing one that went around 350 to 400 works well.

A couple of freinds have shot bears with the same bullet and load they reported it did a great job.

Well I've taken several and been in on more than I can count and 99% were with hounds.There is a different dynamic that comes into play,and that is the demeanor of the bear itself.I assume that bears over bait and spot and stalked are relaxed and about their normal day.A bear pursued by hounds is always adjitated,irratable,and on occassions nasty,depending on the type of hounds used.

As a hunter you want to take the bear cleanly,while the houndsman wants the bear put down quickly and with authority to protect his hounds.At the shot the hounds charge,good hit or bad,good bullet used or not,sufficent caliber or not.You could fire into the air and they'll attack that bear just because a gun went off.Now this is when things get dicey,for the hunter,the hounds and the houndsman.If a sufficient caliber is used with a good bullet and proper placement,all come away happy.If not the hounds and houndsman fair the worse.

Losing a hound to a bear is going to happen,losing one because of a poor placed shot,poor bullet performance,is not acceptable.Most houndsmen I know,and I was one,have a minimum requirement.Several I know won't allow hunters to use handguns.For the 44mag in this situation the 270gr jsp works well.It doesn't over expand and penetrates well for a jacketed projectile.A 280-300gr wfn between 12-1300fps works wonders.

The biggest advice I would give is talk to the houndsman.Then keep calm,and make it count.You could get one out of a tree and it's like shooting at the range,or you could have one on the ground that's had enough.Staying calm and making quick decisive decissions comes into play when they want to fight.Watch the hounds make the shot.Sounds simple doesn't it?

Here's one taken @ point blank range,about 16" if I remember correctly.

cottonstalk pretty well made the call.
I prefer such as Rem. sjhp.
If you do encounter a bear on the ground, I prefer one that will not exit or at least less chance of exiting. It can get hairy in the mix with the dogs & I don't want the round(s) to pass through.

I agree with cotonstalk having been in on quite
a few bear hound kills.

The ones in the trees are most of the time simple until the shooter muffs the shot and the bear comes out fast looking for trouble.

I seen hunters refuse to go into the brush after a bear and hounds they don't get invited back if hounds get hurt

It can get really exciting really fast in the brush with a bear and hounds.

I believe in large caliber guns and heavy bullets, to deal with the worst possibility, not just the most likely scenario. With that in mind, I prefer the .475 Linebaugh for bears, although other cartridges will certainly work.
I've taken a few black bears by spot & stalk, bait, and dogs, and a couple of Russian brown bears. I've never used a .44 Magnum, but I know those who have, and would not hesitate to use full charge loads utilizing either the Sierra 300 gr. JSP, or the Hornady 300 gr. XTP. I have used both bullets on game larger than most black bears, and have been satisfied.
Bear threads always seem to require photos of dead bear , so although I didn't use a .44, here's a couple of my more recent large ones taken in Alaska and Arizona (475L):

Very nice, Ken! What load are you using in the .475?

25 gr. H-110, CCI 350's, 400 XTP or 420 WFN.

At times in the past I've used 25.6 with the XTP and 26 with the 420 WFN, but my knuckle and I prefer the 25 gr. load. The game doesn't seem to notice.

Thanks, Ken.

Guys,
Very interesting reading your comments and photos. I really appreciate it.
Thanks! I'm really looking forward to the fall bear season arriving now. Keep them coming! You all are a wealth of experience.
Brittman

Cottonstalk , I have never been around hounds when dealing with bear . What is the difference you were talking about with the type of hounds used ??? . Thanks .

gumboot, I think he meant that some dogs are more aggressive than others. Cottonstalk and his buddies hunt exclusively with Plotts -- awesome animals!

Yeah Whitworth is right.Heres an easy explanation.Some folks hunt "cheerleaders",hounds that run and bay and tree but would rather not get into any altercations with Teddy.The next kind are "ball players" they look for opportunities to put pressure on teddy to hold him and will tangle some but are up in teddy's face.The next kind are harder to hunt with because shooters have to be extremely watchful and that is "soldiers".By any means they can they will hold,stop,tree,or fight teddy it makes no difference to them.I have been fortunate to own all three types,I personally like the soldier type,but they are expensive as vet bills aren't cheap.We now use all plotts but have had walkers,curs,redbones,english and mixes that worked extremely well.In the hay day I would have hunted a poodle if it done the job.Hope this helps.

Thanks for explaning it .
It,s amazing the differences in dogs .
I think it would be awesome . And I mean Awesome to hunt brown bear in the late summer with hounds .. I cut timber with a guy who had Plotts for some time . .He tried them on black bear in sothern southeast , he said they had troubles in the thickness of the brush .
I don,t want t hijack this thread so thank you again..

What kind of trouble, gumboot?

Marko, when are you going to go black bear hunting? It is a blast.

I have a number of times.......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I have a number of times.......

Oh I did not know that. Did you take any.. Would love to see pics if you have.

My advise. Get a lighter gun. I toted the exact same gun a few years ago in NM on a hound hunt for bears. I was in good shape and it was a boat anchor. I finally took it off my hip and stuffed it in my pack. Damn that thing got heavy. However, I did kill a bear with 5, 270 grain factory loads after a spirited ground fight and some close quarters combat shooting. The bear was really pissed before the first shot and his disposition didn't improve until shot number 4. I was not impressed with the penetration but that turned out to be a good thing considering the melee at the kill site. The guide/outfitter thank me after the shooting was over for looking out for his dogs. I was only shooting when they were farther from the bear than I was.

I sold the gun when I got home and purchased a S&W 329.

Perry

I have been lucky enough to get a tag to hunt in my home state of confusion(Wisconsin)
my gun of choice is a Ruger super blackhawk in 44 magnum
I will be using a g/c cast boolit @320 gr and a liberal dose of w-296 my alloy will be a 50/50 mix ww/pb
I really enjoy reading all the posts and bear experiences
I have hunted Black bear twice before
the first time with a rifle 300 wm scored on a 435# blacky with a 7 yd shot
second time I passed on a small bear treed by hounds
truly an exciting adventure and am looking forward to another trip

300 gn good hardcast bullet over 20.5 gn of h110. Heavy crimp and cci primer. shoots 1250ish out of my 5.5" barrel. Will penetrate and exit from just about any angle.

I wanted to edit my last post. The barrel is shorter. Its 4 5/8".It my super blackhawk. Dont know why I put 5.5 in there. Oh well, sorry.

It's all good, RPW!

I'm using a Ruger Bisley 5.5" Old Vaquero .44Mag with a 300 grain cast slug, Starline brass, CCI 300 primer and 21.5 grains of H110 for a chronographed velocity of 1,372 fps with 1,253 ft lbs of energy. It is not close to max for this gun but close to max for me with the recoil. That is a pretty stiff load and should get the job done.

Accuracy is good for about the first 10 shots and then you start thinking about the recoil. I'm sure if needed there would be no felt recoil.

Teancum, why do you think that 300 gr slug at almost 1400 fps isn't even close to max? Just guessing but that load is pretty toasty in a 44 magnum.

Dick

quote:

Teancum, why do you think that 300 gr slug at almost 1400 fps isn't even close to max? Just guessing but that load is pretty toasty in a 44 magnum.

Not in a Ruger Dick. That would be the accuracy point and he uses a good primer.
My loads for the 310 Lee and the 320 LBT both use 21.5 gr of 296 with a Fed 150 primer. I drop to 21 gr for my 330 gr boolit. H110 is usually just a tad slower then 296 too. The LBT 320 gr does 1316 from a 10-1/2" barrel. I never clocked the others.
His chrono might read different so the velocity from the shorter barrel is a little suspect.
Jacketed bullets will not tolerate these loads so the 300 gr XTP tops at about 20.5 gr.
My SBH has digested over 61,000 loads like this and shows zero wear other then a little sandblasting at the edges of the forcing cone.
I let Whitworth borrow it for pigs and he says it shoots like a laser with factory Hornady 300 gr bullets.
For an old, old girl, she shoots like a laser with my 330 gr too. I made this drop test at 200 yards with a 75 yard setting.

First off, what are you doing loaning guns to Whitworth, don't you know he'll shoot them!
Just saying that a load thats "close" to 1400 fps with 300 gr slugs "is" close to maxium, no it isn't max & I have lots of Ruger 44's but to say it isn't even close is what raised an eyebrow. Yes, he's using the right primers. Again, quit loaning guns to Whitworth!!

Dick

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

Teancum, why do you think that 300 gr slug at almost 1400 fps isn't even close to max? Just guessing but that load is pretty toasty in a 44 magnum.

Not in a Ruger Dick. That would be the accuracy point and he uses a good primer.
My loads for the 310 Lee and the 320 LBT both use 21.5 gr of 296 with a Fed 150 primer. I drop to 21 gr for my 330 gr boolit. H110 is usually just a tad slower then 296 too. The LBT 320 gr does 1316 from a 10-1/2" barrel. I never clocked the others.
His chrono might read different so the velocity from the shorter barrel is a little suspect.
Jacketed bullets will not tolerate these loads so the 300 gr XTP tops at about 20.5 gr.
My SBH has digested over 61,000 loads like this and shows zero wear other then a little sandblasting at the edges of the forcing cone.
I let Whitworth borrow it for pigs and he says it shoots like a laser with factory Hornady 300 gr bullets.
For an old, old girl, she shoots like a laser with my 330 gr too. I made this drop test at 200 yards with a 75 yard setting.

Did Veral Smith make your mold or did you make your mold?

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

Teancum, why do you think that 300 gr slug at almost 1400 fps isn't even close to max? Just guessing but that load is pretty toasty in a 44 magnum.

Not in a Ruger Dick. That would be the accuracy point and he uses a good primer.
My loads for the 310 Lee and the 320 LBT both use 21.5 gr of 296 with a Fed 150 primer. I drop to 21 gr for my 330 gr boolit. H110 is usually just a tad slower then 296 too. The LBT 320 gr does 1316 from a 10-1/2" barrel. I never clocked the others.
His chrono might read different so the velocity from the shorter barrel is a little suspect.
Jacketed bullets will not tolerate these loads so the 300 gr XTP tops at about 20.5 gr.
My SBH has digested over 61,000 loads like this and shows zero wear other then a little sandblasting at the edges of the forcing cone.
I let Whitworth borrow it for pigs and he says it shoots like a laser with factory Hornady 300 gr bullets.
For an old, old girl, she shoots like a laser with my 330 gr too. I made this drop test at 200 yards with a 75 yard setting.

bfrshooter

I went back and looked at my data for that load referred to above and this was the readings;

High - 1393

Low - 1360

Ave - 1372

ES - 33

SD - 15

These were from a new RCBS Chronograph and it seems to be spot on. This load is very accurate for me, but then again this pistol is one of the more accurate ones that I currently have and have ever owned. Extraction of the cases was actually tipping the gun up and letting them fall out of the cylinder and Primers should no signs of increasing pressure. Maybe this shooter was just cut a little loose in comparison to others. I have another Old Vaquero in a Bisley 4.75" .45Colt and I wished that I had got the 5.5" barrel with it when purchased. This .45Colt does not perform close to the .44Mag in the accuracy department but oh well, it's still fun to shoot. The .44Mag performs quite well with 240 grain loads around 900-1000fps and a hoot to shoot long distance with.


That's interesting that you say the H110 and the W296 have slightly different burn rates. I thought and I think the manuals give identical loadings for identical velocities and I thought that they were completely interchangeable. Which do you prefer of those two???


I've been toying with the idea of deer hunting with the .44Mag but the ranges out here are long as the terrain is quite open. I've only taken one buck with a pistol and that was a Sig 40 with 155 grain pills, so I have a lot to learn in the handgun hunting area. The above 300 grain load is my "Elk and Bear Load" and also referred to as my "Sleep well Load" as some of the areas we hunt in do have a grizzly or two in them.

quote:

That's interesting that you say the H110 and the W296 have slightly different burn rates. I thought and I think the manuals give identical loadings for identical velocities and I thought that they were completely interchangeable. Which do you prefer of those two???

They are very close but it has strange results. I like 296 for the SBH and SRH but funny as it sounds, H110 did much better in the RH.
I was never able to explain it all.

quote:

Posted 18 March 2011 02:02 Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:
Teancum, why do you think that 300 gr slug at almost 1400 fps isn't even close to max? Just guessing but that load is pretty toasty in a 44 magnum.


Not in a Ruger Dick. That would be the accuracy point and he uses a good primer.
My loads for the 310 Lee and the 320 LBT both use 21.5 gr of 296 with a Fed 150 primer. I drop to 21 gr for my 330 gr boolit. H110 is usually just a tad slower then 296 too. The LBT 320 gr does 1316 from a 10-1/2" barrel. I never clocked the others.
His chrono might read different so the velocity from the shorter barrel is a little suspect.
Jacketed bullets will not tolerate these loads so the 300 gr XTP tops at about 20.5 gr.
My SBH has digested over 61,000 loads like this and shows zero wear other then a little sandblasting at the edges of the forcing cone.
I let Whitworth borrow it for pigs and he says it shoots like a laser with factory Hornady 300 gr bullets.
For an old, old girl, she shoots like a laser with my 330 gr too. I made this drop test at 200 yards with a 75 yard setting.



Did Veral Smith make your mold or did you make your mold?

I made the mold John. I tried to match the nose to the forcing cone angle. Mine is 11* and is why the nose is so long.
I shot my last 3 deer with this boolit last season, the farthest was 98 yards.
It really does shoot good.

A question for those who have been there and done that with dogs... When the fight is on the ground with the dogs, what is the preferable shot on the bear? Shoulders, spine, head?

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

That's interesting that you say the H110 and the W296 have slightly different burn rates. I thought and I think the manuals give identical loadings for identical velocities and I thought that they were completely interchangeable. Which do you prefer of those two???

They are very close but it has strange results. I like 296 for the SBH and SRH but funny as it sounds, H110 did much better in the RH.
I was never able to explain it all.

H-110 and W-296 is the same powder. Any difference in burning rate is differrent lots