I know this is a hunting forum but I also know many like the .41 mag. here. I am interested in loading some loads for self defense for my Tracker. Something that should expand and not go through the attacker and through the next wall. From what I have seen Hornadays XTP bullets don't expand. Well not in wood or dirt any way. Anyone have any ideas?

BTW good to be back. I have been working so many hours for the last 7 months I have not had time to come around.

Being a hunter I really do not have a defense load but for a factory --the WW slivertip does work on small game and such-- it does expand and is downloaded as to velocity about 1170 or so-- Remington sells a 200 gr jhp that expands well but might go deeper than you want

Hi Don, I think that Winchester's 175 Silver Tip load would work well. Sierra's 170JHC might also do the trick for handloads.

Hi Don,

I used both the Winchester silver tips and the Corbin 170 gr load. Both did very well in testing in the Tracker I had. Not to start a fire fight but there are some who say you should not use reloads for defense ammo due to liability reasons. I do not think there have been any court cases against reloaded ammo but I may not be interested in being the first one either.

I would look at the Sierra or other brands in the 170 gr range with a large HP opening, and would not try to blast them out as fast as I can.

Jacobite:
I also carry a S/S Taurus 425 Tracker about 95% of the time that I carry a gun. I use two loads in it. One is with the Sierra 170g jacketed hollow point and the other is a 215g lead from AllStar Bullet Co. The 215g is pretty soft and doesn't go through deer. They look like dimpled quarters when recovered from deer. I keep both loads at about 1100fps for carry and load much hotter to hunt with. My granddaughter as asked that I load her a bunch of the 215g stuff . She wants to use it as her only deer load. She killed four does last season using that load. I'm at work now and don't remember the load recipe. Post tomorrow if you like.

Jacobite,go with the 175 grain Sliver Tip that is the original load for the 41 and the one that was issued to Dallas PD when they carried the old model S&W 58,this as I was told, The 41 will do the job and the Tracker should be a great carry piece.
I would stress that if this is strickly a "self defense" carry gun stay away from hand loads, never give the scum suckers any ammo to use.If its a trail/defense piece I think yoy might be all right with hand loads depending on the "AO" you live in

[ 03-26-2003, 08:44: Message edited by: Dave James ]

Thanks for the advice folks. I remember some where about hand loads for self defense also. Had more to do with if you made strange abnormal loads. However it is a good point and I can buy a box of factory loads for that. Yuck I hate to even say FACTORY loads. Actually I don't reload for my wifes 9mm or my .40 S&W.

Dave...having worked for Dallas PD for 11 years and carrying a .41 Magnum for most of that time I can tell you the issue gun was not a M58 but a model 15 or 64 depending on when you were hired. You may be thinking of San Antonio PD as they did adopt the M58 for a short time but that was back in the late 60's early 70's and Silvertips were not available then. SA carried the Remington 210 LSW "Police Load"
The problem with the .41 for defensive applications is that all but the 170 grain Silvertip don't expand well on human targets. They do a real good job but all the bullets out there are more heavily constructed than optimum for shooting at humans. This usually means over penetration.
I mainly carry a .38 Super for defensive work now but when in the woods I usually carry a 4" M657 or M657 Mountain Gun. Usually the gun is loaded with 200 grain Speer JHP bullets with 23 grains of H110 for 1400+- fps. The 170 Sierra gets 26 grains of H110 and 1450 fps.
For your Taurus I would go with the Silvertips. Recoil is very managable and they expand....Bob

The 170gr Sierra bullet is very fragile, I use them for jack rabbits & yotes. Push them about 1200fps & they are very controlable & open quite fast. For a factory load, I think the Sivertip is a good balance btwn. recoil & terminal perf.

The only thing that i do not care for with the silver tip round is that winchester does use a fast burning rate powder assuming that they will be shot in a short barrel. Accuracy has always been good but case extraction tends to be a litte sticky.

Rjm,thanks for refreshing the memory it was "SA" that had them,its been a Long time since I was in Texas.I didn't remember the round des that they carried,I remember some thing about them haveing problems but thought it was due to the hollow points them had. Can't fault you on the 38 super have carried one better than 20 years in the SIG's

Mike...You probably read one of my posts on the handloads/selfdefense issue on one of the other forums. It is way overblown. If you read Mass Ayoobs articles on the matter it is never the "cause" of the prosecution or civil suit but just one of the issues. When I was with Dallas PD in the 70s and 80s we were allowed to carry handloaded ammunition and I know several cases where officers shot people with their own handloads with no problems what so ever. Where it becomes a factor is when you screw up a self-defense shooting and end up in court. Then it could be used against you especially if your loads were way beyond what could be found in normal factory loads available at the time of the shooting.

As to the .41 Magnum ammo used by San Antonio PD, Remington was the only maker of .41 ammo at the time. The only two loads available were the full bore 210 jacketed soft point and the very soft 210 all lead loads. It was not until sometime in the 1970s that Winchester brought out a lead load "Police Round" and a 210 jacketed hollow point. Both those loads were later dropped and only the Silvertip remains. Remington has a 200 grain jacketed hollow point bullet but only sells it as a reloading componant...why they don't load the round commercially I have no idea.

Mr. James....another Super fan. I have shot the Browning/SIG guns but have never owned one. Great round and a great gun...too bad SIG doen't bring that one in any more.

Bob

41 Mag with the right ammo is fine for self defense ... but so are many other calibers that are easier to shoot or allow more rapid follow-up shots.

Yes, you can ... but why would you want to if a 40 S&W or .45 ACP were available? (I like major Super too ... but that gets into potential litigation opportunities.)

[ 04-07-2003, 09:20: Message edited by: mstarling ]

I have an original .41 mag with a 4" bbl. The best defesive load is th Silver tip. I have used the .41 for several years and as a defensive round it is very capable.

Aleko

should work great, I would use a bazoka if i had to, just make sure of your target and what is behind it. No calateral damage ( new TV buzz word)

[ 04-08-2003, 11:05: Message edited by: southern utah ]

Considering most self-defense instances it wil be you and the prep-they don't like witnesses
Over penertration should not be a issue. I would have no reservations in using my 45 LC loads a good JHP should be fine at moderate 1000-1100 fps.
That by the way is where most JHP's need to be pushed for max expandtion. Hand loads are perfect for self-defense and yes if need be I'll be the test case Gee Grow some Nads!!! I don't subscribe to Ayob's thinking on anything for self-defense!!! Just a bunch of hog wash!!!!

Thanks folks I figure I will just get some silvertips for carry. I don't always carry that gun. The Glock .40 is lighter and so is the Walther P1. I can just shoot the .41 so much better.

All this talk about the .41 recalled a story about my girlfriend back when we were just in the "friend" stage. She asked me to take her shooting and we went to the range. She was very unused to a pistol but as exerienced as rural Southern girls are likely to be with firearms. I gave her a K 38 and she fired it awhile with fair accuracy. Then I gave her my then new Model 57 8 3/8" with fullhouse factory loads(the devil made me so it). She is a small woman with small hands and I was waiting for the fun. Well she banged a cylinder full at 15 yds and managed a 3" group dead center. She turned to me,smiled, and said"That's more like it. I like this one". I never let on.

I have been using

20 grains of wc820(h110)

12 grains of wc820 f(hs6/hs7)

the h110 loads are better,the faster powder REALLY recoil,they are too hot.

I would reduce the h110 loads SLIGHTLY
for defense purposes with speer gold dot hollow points.

1...where are you getting the .41 Gold Dot HPs??? Speer did make some 200 grain ones back several years ago but I don't think they were ever released to the public. THAT would be a great bullet.

mstarling...you also like the Super? As to wanting a Major load, the CorBon 115s are running 1450 fps...the last box I chronoed was 1494 from my Commander. The new 125s are lised at 1375 but only ran 1350 from the same Commander. To me the 115s are about as Major as one can get.

Since I last posted I've sold my last .41 Bisley and picked up a S&W 657 Mountain Gun and a 657 6"....Nothing beats a .41.....Bob

Had somewhat the same experence with a friend. Her dad let me hunt on the farm, Of course I always 'Checked In', one day I stopped by, thought I would show the ole man a new mdl 57 I had just traded for. the young lady in question, about 105 lbs., ask if She could shoot the gun. As She pulled down on some old grounded tomatoes at about 25 yards,I held my hand in front of Her forehead-big dummy that I was, three of them went to tomatoe heaven. And She sure didn't need any help from me. Since I already had a wife, of some 15 years, I didn't think a second one was in order, but it was sure nice to see someone raised their kids right.
On loading the 41 I use 13.2 gr. of IMR 800X, Hornady 210 XTP. Sure has never let me down in the 20 years I been loading it. Guess it wouldn't be the best defense load, although it would sure do the job.