The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting Jacketed vs Hard CastGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I use wheelweights almost exclusively, and if you water drop them right out of the mold, they get quite hard. Don't understand what the issue is. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Will they expand too much/get bad penetration - if I don`t waterdrop them? Or will they expand and give a real good "hole in the wall" AND penetrate  Bacause that I never have used unhardened HC - I have to ask somebody who have experience. Sorry about my stupidness  | |||
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Water dropping them doesn't take any more time, and it pays off big in hardness. Oursend up in the 20 - 22 BHN range. No real reason not to water drop them. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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reread my response about the .41 mag to ganyana and it sounded a bit caustic and i didn't mean for it to. really truly just curious. | |||
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I have a lot of "proven" bullets  .But I`m interested in how a not-hardened bullet will do the job. That is my question! Maybe the penetration will be straight through WITH BIGGER HOLE? Somebody who have experience? | |||
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I'm not following your line of thinking. Do you want to use hardcast bullets or not? Are you casting your own from wheelweights? If you are, why not water drop them?? Proven? There are many of us here who hunt with hardcast bullets. What is the issue? Please explain. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Proven in this matter = bullets that I have experience with Answer to your question: I want to see if a no-waterdropped bullet penetrate good WITH A BIGGER HOLE on animals as big as a zebra. (I will bring with me bullets which are waterdropped too )Sorry that I can`t do myself clear  | |||
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You're doing fine, shadob. Cast bullets lose their ability to penetrate well when their nose profile/shape becomes distorted from contact with foreign matter (flesh, bone, etc.) -- particularly if the bullet material is too soft, or the speed (velocity) exceeds the practical limits of the bullet. This is why you want a harder cast bullet that will resist deformation as best it can and we tend to limit velocity so as not to distort the bullet. Water drop them and dosn't waste your time -- that is unless you really want to!  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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This sums it up pretty well
http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../3909605#Post3909605 _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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450, Barnes makes solid copper bullets for handguns which are not considered armour piercing, however, they do have very large hollow points. They are actually required by law in parts of california now as lead bullets are banned in the condor zone for both rifle, pistol, and rimfire is included. I hope those of you who are not limited by this stupid law pay attention to your politicians, because arizona and some other states are already considering similar legislation. Non Lead bullets are extremely expensive and who wants the government telling them what they may or may not shoot? NOT ME! Curtis | |||
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Those bullets are "Expanders" and not suitable for really big game... But legal. Once upon a time Barnes made real "Solids" for handguns... But "someone" realized that they violated "the law". That is why Punch bullets contain a certain percentage of lead. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Yes that's true. I havn't tried the current barnes yet, but have been told a lot of hog hunters around here dont like them. Curtis | |||
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As 450 tated those are expanding bullets. Barnes does indeed make a deep penetrating bullet for handguns and lever action rifles called the Barnes "Buster" it has a rather thick jacket and a lead alloy core _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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And don't forget, a tiny meplat....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Maybe Barnes or North Fork will make a nonlead "slightly" expanding handgun bullet, like a Cup Point, that will give deep enough penetration for big game like hogs that would be legal in the Condor Zone. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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My water dropped, wheelweight boolits measure 17 BHN on the LBT tester after a few months. That's a far cry from the 30-35 BHN some guys are using. | |||
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Using, or claiming to use? It would seem to me that a 35 BHN bullet would be more than a little brittle (obviously depending on the alloy). "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Every alloy is different. You can't depend on BHN. Some with the same BHN are brittle and some are still ductile. WW's all over the country can also vary. Some have been recycled with stick on pure weights so they are softer. A WW is a WW, not a boolit. Many have zinc mixed in and it means nothing for a wheel but can destroy casting. The main reason for water dropping is ACCURACY because softer boolits can lead the bore or deform in the forcing cone of revolvers. Given the right meplat and caliber, no expansion is needed for game. A larger exit hole means zip as long as the internals of an animal is destroyed. If all you want is to blow the opposite shoulder off an animal with a huge hole, why are you hunting? Trophy or meat? The wrong boolit can result in lost animals, ask me, I know all about it. Boolits that you can kill a deer with will FAIL on very large and tough animals but a boolit that works on a large animal will still kill a deer. Meplat and velocity will be the factor. Too fast is no good. A jacketed of the same shape of a WLN or WFN cast will do the exact same thing as long as it does not expand. Any expansion will limit penetration but if there is no expansion, too high a velocity will limit internal damage. As you speed up a bullet of any kind, you NEED expansion. It still comes down to matching the bullet to the game, distance, velocity, etc. Look at the 30-06, bullets from 110 to 220 gr, maybe more. Pick the bullet for the purpose. Would anyone shoot a cape buf with a 110 gr bullet? Would you hunt deer with a 220 gr? | |||
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Not ideal is true. I helped a man in PA drag out a small buck. It took him most of the day to finally kill the deer. If it wasn't for a tracking snow he would have lost it. It was shot 6 times in the chest with 180 gr bullets and I could cover the six shots with my hand. Zero expansion with tiny holes poked through. Pretty close to FMJ. | |||
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