Again, without personal attacks, which is the best of the Super Big Bore Revolver cartridges.

Which cartridge over 45 cal gives the best increase in "killing power", with accuracy and recoil that is managable by a "determined common man".

What is the ideal bore diameter, bullet weight, and velocity?

Again leave out the fueds and personal attacks.

I will start:

When I wanted a "bigger" revolver than the 44 Mag, I did some research.

I wanted an increase in "power" with managable recoil and deep penetration.

The deep penetration was important to me, as if you study hunting cartridge development, rifle or pistol, the lack of penetration has caused more problems over the years than any other factor.

I also wanted a revolver that was fairly compact.

I chose a 475 Linebaugh. Much less recoil than the 475 and 500 Longs, and better penetration than the 500 Linebaugh [according to most sources], with a much heavier bullet than the 44 and 45's.

I picked the Freedom Arms with 6" barrel because it is still handy, and FA has a reputation of quality and accuracy.

Also from shooting Ruger Super Blackhawks, and S&W 44 Mags, for over 30 years, I knew that the Single Action grip was easier on my hands than a double action.

[The S&W 44 Mags are my favorite all round revolvers.]

For me, I still think I made the best choice.

BFR in 500 Mag, in my opinion it is more versatile than any other cartridge. It has tons of power, great penetration and can carry 275 to 700 gr. bullets. The best performing bullet in the 500 Mag is the 440 gr. Hard cast bullet.
With a custom 6 inch barrel, it is very packable, not only for hunting but as a back up in the woods.

I prefer the FA in .475 Linebaugh with 400-420 gr. bullets @ 1200-1400 fps, depending upon barrel length. With mine, I have taken a number of hogs, a couple of large bears, elk, bison and water buffalo, to my complete satisfaction. Although I own, and like, a couple of .500's, I prefer the .475L.

Another vote for the .475 Linebaugh. It is the do-it-all cartridge that fits in a standard sized revolver.

if you're going over 45 caliber the best choice imho is the 475. i don't listen much to most people about which penetrates better, the 500's or the 475. it's moot anyways. depends on loads and bullets tested. if you need greater just get a punch bullet as that in any big bore caliber is the best option imho. that said, the 475 has much greater long range potential and higher velocity potential than the 500's other than perhaps the 500 wyoming express out of the freedom arms 83 loaded to it's fullest. that said, the bfr is the best option imho for a .475, packing size, but longer cylinder and i don't for a second think i should have gone with FA for mine. the bfr also takes a backseat to no one accuracy wise. all of the above is dependent on you not including the big smiths.

Boy those Punch bullets sure do change the equation, don't they? Just wish they were a little cheaper.......

Now Whitworth, our boolits don't hold a backseat to any bullet!
I am just not getting into the Freedom thing but my .475 BFR will be in my casket with me!
My friend came over with a brand new BFR 45-70 a few weeks ago. It was in a beautiful soft, zippered case, was drilled and tapped and came with a base. All at a PRICE REDUCTION, while Freedoms keep going up.
A half hour with my grinder and stones gave him a 2# creep free trigger. I loaded some of my 378 gr WFN boolits for him. I mounted his red dot. After a few shots I had it zeroed at 50 yd's. I swung to a 1-1/4" piece of plastic at 100 yd's and it vanished. Also a liter bottle of water.
Rifle accuracy from a revolver.
Oh yeah, it is safe with 5 rounds in it.
Do you notice none of the gun rags have BFR tests in them? It is because Magnum Research does not pay for expensive adds and doesn't need to kiss anyone's butt.
I have posted many group pictures but have yet to see any from the shootists on this site! Afraid? Or just can't get them?
Anyone can shoot a deer or larger animal at 25 yd's, not a feat worth bragging about. Stick bow archery stuff.

bfr

Re the 45/70 BFR.
Will the revolver take the Buffalo Bore, Cor-Bon loads? If so what is the recoil like compared to a 475 Linebaugh?

Would a 6" barrel be to short?
What velocities would you be getting with the above factory loads, assuming they are OK to shoot in the BFR?

Having a 45/70 rifle and a 45/70 revolver would make a good combo.

yes it will take any of those loads, the revolver is stronger than any lever action made including probably the blr. a marlin will blow pieces of it's internals all over the place before the bfr will hiccup. the question is if you can hold on to the gun with some of those loads.

the 45/70's and 44 marlin bfrs seem to be particularly accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
yes it will take any of those loads, the revolver is stronger than any lever action made including probably the blr. a marlin will blow pieces of it's internals all over the place before the bfr will hiccup. the question is if you can hold on to the gun with some of those loads.

the 45/70's and 44 marlin bfrs seem to be particularly accurate.

I have been impressed with the accuracy of all of the BFRs I have shot. They are a great bargain IMO.

NE, recoil is lighter then the .475 because of the weight. It is pleasant to shoot with very heavy loads.
Due to case size, I would not go with a short barrel because you will have trouble burning all the powder. SR4759 works the best.
I don't know about the factory loads but I get 1632 fps with a 317 gr boolit and have worked to 1800 fps. I have a 378 gr WFN that is just crazy accurate.
For a shorter barrel, get the .475.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
yes it will take any of those loads, the revolver is stronger than any lever action made including probably the blr. a marlin will blow pieces of it's internals all over the place before the bfr will hiccup. the question is if you can hold on to the gun with some of those loads.

the 45/70's and 44 marlin bfrs seem to be particularly accurate.

From the Magnum Research site.

What loads will the BFR .45/70 handle?
Lever action rifle loads, the #2 loads.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/FAQ_BFRRevolver.asp

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
NE, recoil is lighter then the .475 because of the weight. It is pleasant to shoot with very heavy loads.
Due to case size, I would not go with a short barrel because you will have trouble burning all the powder. SR4759 works the best.
I don't know about the factory loads but I get 1632 fps with a 317 gr boolit and have worked to 1800 fps. I have a 378 gr WFN that is just crazy accurate.
For a shorter barrel, get the .475.

I have to agree, the SR4759 works the best in my BFR 45-70 with 405 gr. bullets and a 10 inch barrel.

I have found a 44 Mag revolver and a 44Mag rifle a useful pair.

My thinking here was that by going up to the 45/70 for your "pair" that you increase the power of your rifle a fair amount.

You could of course have loads more taylored to your revolver, more controlable, less flash etc, but in a pinch either gun could shoot any of the 45/70 loads.

Also this combo is an off the shelf purchase, with ammo easy to find as well.

The only negative issue I see with a revolver in .45/70 is the sheer size of it. It's not something you can stick in a holster on your hip -- you can with a .475. They're just really big revolvers, albeit great revolver!

With a lot of the handgun hunters I have seen, carrying a larger handgun is not a problem. With the right holster, even a long heavy handgun can be carried without a problem. No more trouble than carrying a rifle over the shoulder, it is preparing for it, that counts.

Now if I am carrying a rifle to hunt, I choose a smaller compact handgun to carry. It is just how one chooses to use and carry there hunting handguns.

N E 450 No2, I am sure you can work up a load the will work well in both guns. But I worked up two separate loads for my 45-70's.
My Marlin Guide gun shoots a heavy load of H 322 and my BFR is using a lighter load of SR 4759.
I take a different colored sharpie and mark the case's on the bottom, so I know which goes with what gun. Not because of recoil, but because of accuracy and which one was worked up for what gun.

Best of both worlds,Power & Compact!... and its "Fersale"!(BFR 500-lower left)

I still say that thing started the earthquakes!

480 ruger.

I've shot alot of different 454's, 475's and 500's, and to me the 480 offers a good 30% increase in power over the 44 mag, but the same level of recoil.

The 475 and 500 Linebaughs are a different strada of recoil, and I just haven' had the time to master such rounds. I'd also venture a guess based on test in various media that they don't over a whole heap of increase in terminal performance over the 480, comenserate with their increase in recoil.

I still want to get an FA mdl 83 premier w/ 6" octagon barrel in 480, black mikarta grips roundbutted, it's my idea of the perfect hunting revolver.

Id almoost hands down agree with paul. The 480 is a hell of a versitle round that does almost what the 475 does and does it with less recoil. Problem is they wont put it in an exceptable package for me. So I have to pick the 475. It is capable of a little more on the top end and if a guy is going to buy an expensive gun why not the 475 instead of the 480 as you can shoot either in it anyway. The 475 caliber guns pentrate just about better then anything. Its a perfect balance of being able to shoot a large caliber bullet with a decent metpat and a good sectional density. Before all the 50 smith guys jump me about penetration. I understand total that a 500 smith can pentrate well to but with a 50 cal you need alot heavier bullet to get as good of a sectional density and with bullet weight comes more recoil. Another advantage to the 475 is you can get it in a nice compact package that can easily be carried on a belt holster. (the way a sixgun should be carried). I dearly love my 44s but if limited to one handgun for hunting the rest of my life id probaly chose a 475

My cast bullet faith took a very sharp nose dive the other day ... I shot a bull moose in the head with a 360 gr Oregon Trail 360 gr Silver bullet ... The striking velocity was 1425 fps,give or take 20 fps ... The bullet hit to the right of center of the head , actually at the horn base and the bullet shattered ... I didn,t have the camera with me but when I get home I will post a pic of the bullet remains and the skull plate/horn area ...
The 320 gr punch bullet @ 1600 fps striking velocity on the other hand penetrated ccompletely thru and as far as I know it is still going ...

The 475 Linebaugh is a great round , from the research I have done ,,, But I think a 500,, this or that is probably the best ,, but it is a close race and the 475 is IMO more versitile ...

As I will be collecting all the big moose bones I can get I will be doing lots of testing .... So far Punch bullet
360 gr Oregon Trail .452 wln .

Cast is good if cast from a good alloy, and not driven too fast. Somewhere there are pics of my 460 gr WFN .475" that was tested several years back at the linebaugh institute. I cast them from ww's and water quenched them. I sent them to one of the forum members, he loaded them to a sedate 1100 fps from a 480, and proceded to dril 38" in wet newsprint, and on the mixed newsprint and bone test, 2" of bone and nearly 12" of newsprint.

The bestest 475 and 500 loads were a touch over 40", so a whopping 10% increase in penetration for what my hands say are a 50% jump in fealt recoil.

Now if Ruger had only built a 5 shooter bisley 5 1/2" 480, they never would have had to drop the round.

So, is the 475 Linebaugh the best all round choice above the .44/.45cal?

You can use loads from the 480 Ruger up to full power 475 Linebaugh.

With this cartridge you can taylor the power, and thus recoil, from deer, wild pig, black bear sized game, up to brown bear, cape buff, or elephant, and be sure to have enough penetration,as well as "power" to get the job done.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
So, is the 475 Linebaugh the best all round choice above the .44/.45cal?

You can use loads from the 480 Ruger up to full power 475 Linebaugh.

With this cartridge you can taylor the power, and thus recoil, from deer, wild pig, black bear sized game, up to brown bear, cape buff, or elephant, and be sure to have enough penetration,as well as "power" to get the job done.

I do have one being built by Gary Reeder as we speak, a 5 shot custom 475 Linebaugh.

Sounds like your bullet was too brittle for the job. I cast from ww as well and have not had a problem was bullet shattering. I agree with Paul, alloy is very important. Not overdriving your bullets is important as well.

I agree with hitman. to hard and to fast. If you would have loaded a bullet cast out of 5050 ww/lyno and shot it at 1200 fps id about bet the results would have been different.

Another good reason to never buy cast boolits. Most push the hard thing in their adds.
I do use hard boolits but they are never over 20 to 22 bhn. Hard yet ductile. Water dropped WW's or a tiny bit of tin and antimony added. Not much of anything stops them and they never break or lose weight.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:So far Punch bullet
360 gr Oregon Trail .452 wln .

This tells me that a person who wants to hunt big game with their .454 should stay away from Oregon Trail bullets.......if they are that brittle, they are no good. That the Punch bullet out-does the 360 and a lot of other bullets is a function of the bullet maintaining it's shape. Had that 360 been made of better material, it would have done the deed. The key with heavy hardcasts is to maintain moderate velocities. The Punch being made of a much tougher material can stay together at greater speeds. They are a fantastic bullet, just a bit pricey........

..... Ya The velocity was only 1425 fps which I didn,t feel was excessive , but it turned out to be so .. So far the 335 gr Cast Preformance bullet has held up ok . they deform some on the nosebut penetrate pretty straight .....

I have learned why Freedom Arms recommends against using 45 colt brass in the Casull cylinder .. At least one reason ... ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I,m getting alot of bullet lube in the cylinder throats ... So much so that I can,t chamber loaded Casull ammo...I don,t have that problem with the 255 gr plated bullets .. So I guess I need to pay up and get Casull brass .... Biggest problem is I don,t have a small primer placement rod for my presses or hand primer .... Be a good excuse to buy an RCBS hand prime ... I,ve used them and they are nice ... My Lee Hand prime has pushed probably 15 ,000 primers , mostly Large rifle magnum primers ..

I,m going to try the 360 oreo gone,, sliver bullets @ 1100 fps on water and bone and will report back ...
I don,t see me casting my own bullets .. Too many custom bullet casters out there ..Plus the Punch bullet and Macafeja .,., Mayby a 350 gr Cup point solid

gumboot, I've got more .454 brass than I know what to do with.......I'll make you a steal of a deal.......

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Another good reason to never buy cast boolits. Most push the hard thing in their adds.
I do use hard boolits but they are never over 20 to 22 bhn. Hard yet ductile. Water dropped WW's or a tiny bit of tin and antimony added. Not much of anything stops them and they never break or lose weight.

The bullets I get from Montana Bullet Works are 22 (BHN). I have never had a problem with the bullets at all. Dave also heat treats his bullets that I get, and they hold together well.

I had in the past used bullets from another source, and I had a few of the hard cast bullets come apart. I quit using them bullets.

That is the problem Redhawk. You don't know what you are getting until you shoot something with them. I sent for a sample of Laser Cast and accuracy was miserable plus they were very hard. I never killed anything with them because they shot so bad.
I agree that some makers produce good boolits so what you say means a lot for someone that needs to buy them.
Please name the ones that are too hard to keep someone from making a mistake.
There should be a list of the best boolit makers and the worst. Some guys don't cast.

bfrshooter, the guy that made the bullets to hard is a friend, and I don't want to put his name out. He does not sell a lot of bullets to people. More for his personal use. I have told him about my problem.

But every bullet I got from Montana Bullet works has worked great on game.
I order bullets for my 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 480, 460 Mag, 500 and 510 GNR. I will also be using them in my 475 Linebaugh. My Marlin 45-70 uses the 405 gr. bullets he makes as well as my BFR in 45-70.

OK, that is a good start. We now know one good boolit maker.
Then there is Beartooth and Cast perfomance with the LBT boolits.
C'mon guys, we need a list for beginners.
Name the good and the bad too.

?? Beartooth ??

I ordered some 350grainers for my 454 in August and haven't seen them yet. Is it typical for Beartooth to take this long?

quote:

Originally posted by PWS:
?? Beartooth ??

I ordered some 350grainers for my 454 in August and haven't seen them yet. Is it typical for Beartooth to take this long?

That's good to know as there were some bullets I wanted to order for some testing.......

I cast my own but have had samples from about all the major cast bullet suppliers given to me to try. My recomendation would be Mt. Baldy bullets hands down. He uses proper alloys to get the hardness you are looking for and will cast them out of about any alloy you want. He doesnt water drop and most of his bullets are hand casted and not machine casted. He does have machine casted bullets that he will sell cheaper for plinking. He kind of specializes in keith bullets but does have some lfns. He is also an avid handgun hunter and shooter and knows what bullets work for hunting and what works for long range shooting.

Frank makes some good bullets. I just received some bullets for my .38-40 from Montana Bullet Works to try out. Everything I've heard about these bullets has been good. Hunter Supply bullets have worked well for me as well.

The Laser Cast bullets I have will either be used for plinking or melted and mixed with more lead to achieve a more ductile alloy.

There is no need to shoot .45 Colt cases in a Casull if one reloads; same thing with the .475 Linebaugh and .480 Ruger.

Anyone here have any experience with Cast Performance?

Yes, those are great boolits at the right hardness. I used a lot of them but still hate to buy boolits.
I might still have some if you want to try them.