I've recently bought a 6" FA Model 83 in 475 and so far have shot 420gr cast, 325 and 400 Jacketed. I'll be getting a casting pot and sizer soon and was wondering if I was to stick with one mold what weight bullet would be a good all-around choice for this pistol. Everything I've shot seems to shoot quite well. The 420's at 1150fps were very shootable and accurate, haven't had time but I was going to boost the velocity to 1200-1250 and call it good.

I was thinking of a mold for a 380gr WFNGC bullet as an all-around choice, or buying two molds, one at 400-420 and one lighter weight for shooting deer.

Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Matt

I had Ballsiticast make a four cavity mold for me. Two cavities throw 350 LFN and the other two throw 400 grain LFN. All the bullets are plan based and shoot very well. In my opinion, 400 grain is the optimum bullet weight for the .475. I also have the FA, and these bullets function very well.

I couldn't live with just one. My .475" experience is with the 480, but looks like you are running that level of load. I've shot 275, 310, 320, 330, 390, 400, 410 and 460 gr bullets out of it. I finally settled on the 400 gr as an all around hunting bullet @ 1200 fps.

But for practice plinking loads, I really like the lighter bullets. I had a 4 cavity balisticast that dropped a 310 gr LFN that was phenominally accurate @ 950fps, but I misplaced the mold. Then I had mountain molds make me a 275 gr swc that is essentially a sized up Keith swc. It's proved very accurate @ 1000 fps, and I'm trying to find an accurate 700 fps load, but haven't found it yet.

If you want the best, you can't beat Ballisticast. If you want something custom, Mountain Molds is great. For the $, you can't beat lee molds, and their 400 gr shoots just as well as any other 400 gr bullet I've used.

The first thing you have to realize is the over all length of the loaded round for the Freedom is very short. Crimp grooves need to be close to the boolit nose which puts a LOT of boolit in the case with heavy boolits. The Lee 400 gr is right at the end of the cylinder. The twist rate likes a lighter boolit of around 350 gr's too. That weight has given us around an inch at 50 yd's but as weight is increased, so are groups. You will have trouble spinning a heavy boolit because pressure sky rockets with so much boolit in the case once you get too heavy and look for velocity. If you are looking for long range accuracy, stay with a lighter boolit. If you need a close range backup, it doesn't matter as long as the boolit fits the gun. Over all length is going to be your biggest job. The gun will shoot heavy boolits OK for most uses but you have to accept a lower velocity and accuracy.

Thanks for the info guys. The 350gr cast sounds appealing to me. Velocity would be a bit higher for a longer range deer bullet, more than enough penetration on any whitetail I would imagine, and when I feel the need for a backup round I can just buy a hundred or so 400's or the 420's that I already have and load those up. I already have three different front sights now as the one installed on it shot a good 1 1/2 feet high so I ordered the next two taller. Jumping between loads (bullet weights) has required different front sights so I should probably choose one weight in the middle, find a load it likes, zero it in and call it good.

Are the LBT molds considered decent, or would you choose the Ballisticast mentioned above?

Also, what powders have you had the best luck with. I think I used H110 and Win296, but just went with the powder and data I could find.

Thanks again for the good information and I appreciate any more you can give.

Best regards,
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
The first thing you have to realize is the over all length of the loaded round for the Freedom is very short. Crimp grooves need to be close to the boolit nose which puts a LOT of boolit in the case with heavy boolits. The Lee 400 gr is right at the end of the cylinder. The twist rate likes a lighter boolit of around 350 gr's too. That weight has given us around an inch at 50 yd's but as weight is increased, so are groups. You will have trouble spinning a heavy boolit because pressure sky rockets with so much boolit in the case once you get too heavy and look for velocity. If you are looking for long range accuracy, stay with a lighter boolit. If you need a close range backup, it doesn't matter as long as the boolit fits the gun. Over all length is going to be your biggest job. The gun will shoot heavy boolits OK for most uses but you have to accept a lower velocity and accuracy.

Your constant rants about the Freedom 475 revolvers not bring able to shoot heavy bullets is rediculous..MY Freedom, 475 shoots 420 grain hard cast at 1400 plus FPS out of a 6" barrel with a high dergree of accuracy... That may be your experience or opion,but it is certainly not been my experience or that of others that I know.....

I was happy with the 3" group I got from mine at 75 yards and 420gr WFNGC bullets at 1150 fps. I was pretty impressed actually.

I'll also utter a bunk call against the .475 FA linebaughs short cylinder issues. Yes, you have to use a 0.37" meplat to canalure bullet vs 0.40" for the origial ruger based 475's. I don't think anyone is making the older .40" molds anymore.

As far as LBT, Veral makes good molds, but IMHO his prices are unreasonable for what you get. I'm also not sure if he's still producing molds or in trouble with the IRS again.

He'll tell you that his lathe bored molds are more accurate than cherry cut, but the most accurate .476" cast bullet I've shot was from a 4 cavity cherry cut balisticast mold 310 gr LFN shape. I didn't sort bullets by cavity or anything fancy, but I did shoot a 3 shot 1 1/2" group at 100 yds, and I'm convinced the gun is capable of better accuracy than I can achieve. That was from a Ruger SRH 480, and I didn't cherry pick chambers either, just loaded up and shot.

For my money, ballisticast molds are outstanding in both manufacture and materials. If you want a customized aluminum mold, mountain molds makes a great reasonbly priced product.

I believe RCBS has a 400 gr swc mold, that should also be a good one, though I've never shot one.

JWP, did I rant or state fact? Prove anything that I said was wrong! If you are loading rounds longer then 1.8" you are blowing smoke.

I agree that the OAL of a loaded round for the FA is shorter than that of a Ruger conversion. My problem is the sweeping statement that FAs can't shoot the heavier bullets accurately. That is your opinion or experience bfrshooter, certainly not mine. You need to state it as such and turn off your own smoke machine.

I depends on what YOU call accuracy! If 3" or more at 50 yd's satisfies you, then you have your accuracy. I won't dispute it. None of my revolvers has done worse then 1" and my 45-70 just did 3/8", my .475 can hold 5/8" and both have done less then 1" at 100 yd's. My .475 has kept 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 yd's and the 45-70 has put 3 out of 5 in 2" at 500 meters, the others opened it to 4".
I have also broke 1" at 100 yd's several times with my SBH .44 and cast boolits.
When I say the Freedom .475 shoots great with a lighter boolit and as the weight goes up groups open you have to define what you call a good group! If you are shooting the thing at 25 yd's and bragging, you have no idea what the gun can do.
After over 1000 test loads through .475 Freedoms and finding it will do an inch or under with a lighter boolit but can't do it with heavy boolits, I am not blowing smoke. I am stating the fact that the twist does not support a long boolit unless you are happy with a hunting load.
If I told you your 22-250 with a slow twist will not shoot a 60 gr or heavier bullet, would you argue? Hell no, you would stick to 40 and 45 gr bullets.
Did I say anything here against the Freedom or did I say the truth?
I have the same issue with the Marlin .44 with the idiotic 1 in 38 twist. Turns out they did it on paper mathematically. Damned thing won't shoot a heavy bullet. Only thing that shoots is a 210 gr or a 240 at very low velocity. Am I lying? If I bitch, would all of you jump on me about it?
Freedom owners were born with tacks in their shorts!

bfrshooter,
Out of curiosity, what is the twist rate in the FA 475, and what would be more ideal in your opinion? Just wondering as I'm considering building a lever action marlin in 475 Linebaugh as a little project as I thought it would make a hell of a little hammer. I read where McPhearson sp? did a couple of big bore leverguns on the marlin 45LC and I was contemplating doing the same.

The twist in the Freedom is 1 in 18 and that might be the way to go in the lever gun because of the added velocity. I would ask around about it. You might have to go with a slower twist yet.
The BFR is 1 in 15 and does not like a light boolit at all.
For instance a .44 mag is usually 1 in 20 for a revolver, or close. In the lever gun, the ideal would be 1 in 25 or 26". The 1 in 38 Marlin chose is so touchy it only shoots a few loads.
The Freedom is super accurate with the proper boolit and shoots OK with anything that fits. The limitations have to be realized if you are shooting for small groups. Anything from around 325 to 400 gr's will work best. The BFR will handle from 400 to 460 gr's and shoots light boolits for crap. I can't help it! I didn't make the twists! But some think that it doesn't matter and the Freedom is magic. Actually, the barrel winds up to match boolit weight! The day of the micro chip you know!
The .460 S&W has a gain twist tailored for a light bullet going super fast for long range. I have no idea what it will do with the proper weight bullet for the caliber, I have doubts it will shoot a heavy bullet. With super accuracy, that is. Any bullet or boolit weight can be shot from any gun as long as it fits but find me any gun in the world that is accurate with all of them. I didn't make the rules and can't make a boolit shoot if the twist is wrong for it.

I don't think accuracy is based squarly on twist rate. I'd be curious to see what Ruger uses with their 480. To me accuracy is 5 shots into 1" at 50 yds in a revolver. I know do better, but that's good in my book. My ruger 480 has been able to do that with 310 - 460 gr cast.

A 475 linebaugh lever gun would be neat, but I can't see using the Marlin action unless you'd using the full size 45-70 case.

I have shot and hit targets out to 495 yards with a Freedom Arms Revolver with 420 grain bullets,if this is not accurate enough and the twist is too slow,then I am amazed......The loaded over all length is not a problem, Buffalo Bore Ammo was designed to work in the Freedom Revolvers and all bullets and Factory Loaded ammo takes this into consideration the overall loaded lenght for the Freedom Arms revolver, therefrore handloads can also do the same with no less performance...I mean 420 grains out of a 6" barrel able to hit a target at near 500 yards is not to shaby

As for as twist rate goes for the 475 caliber revolvers, Linebaugh, Bowen, Clemens, Huntington all use 1 in 18 twist barrels....To say that this twist is too slow for 420 grain bullets is not correct.......

John, what's the twist rate of the FA? Does it or does it not have a shorter cylinder than the BFR? Just wondering! Anyone have the measurements?

Does anyone know the twist rate of the Ruger SRH in .480?

Unless your group was an inch or less at nearly 500 yards, I wouldn't be crowing too loud myself.

MS H

Hitting @ 500 yds is just basically testing accuracy of the gun and load. Used to be able to do it when my eyes were much younger after talking to EK.

Whitworth

Yes the FA has a shorter cylinder than the Ruger of BFR. The twist on the FA is also 1/18. Still doesn't stop the FA from being as accurate as you are with a consistent hold and load.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
John, what's the twist rate of the FA? Does it or does it not have a shorter cylinder than the BFR? Just wondering! Anyone have the measurements?

Does anyone know the twist rate of the Ruger SRH in .480?

Yes, the cylinder in the Freedom Arms revolvers are shorter than the BFR revolvers.. The twist in the Fredom Arms, Clemens, Linebaugh, and Bowen revolvers are the same 1 in 18.... Long distance shooting refernce was used simply to show that the bullets are still stabile and in no way is a 1 in 18 twist too slow for 420 grain bullets.....

When FA first introduced their .475 L in January of 1999, Tim Sundles had "about a trailer load" of .475 420 gr. WFN & LFN bullets that had turned to a dark gray color that he didn't want to load in his commercial Buffalo Bore ammo. He offered them for sale at a discount, and I bought several thousand WFN's. Still have some. They shoot about 2 MOA from my 3 FA's, driven by 26 gr. H110 (1250-1400 fps, depending upon the gun). That's been good enough for me on bears, elk, hogs, bison, and good enough to penetrate 7 feet of Argentine buffalo. I've never fired less than a 400 gr. bullet in my .475's . Never saw the point in it.

475Guy,

My comment was tounge-in-cheek for two of the members on this forum.

MS -- hope that wasn't for my benefit as I am happy shooting at 50 yards!

kenoneill -- PM sent

Before I went out and bought moulds I would try at least 2 or 3 different bullets in the weight range I was considering. Here's a good source for cheap commercial bullets to sample:

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page6.html

Send "Dave" an email and ask if he can prepare you sampler packs with, say, 25 rounds per manufacturer in each weight. It would certainly cost more "per 100" but he might be willing to do it. If you planned on melting down the unused ones to recast later, it really wouldn't matter if you had some extras...

I tried the Lee 400 gr bullets in my 480 and did NOT like them one bit - the crimp groove is tiny and I just couldn't get a pretty crimp that didn't swell the case mouth and caused chambering difficulties. I then tried the LBT WFN (no gas check) 400 gr bullets and they work simply terrific. I'm using Hornady New Dimension dies with a separate crimp die (the 4 die set).

You don't need a lot of velocity with the big guys - anything over 1200 fps is a waste of powder IMHO. If you want long range ammo, go lighter and faster.

John Davies
Spokane WA

Strange on the problems with the Lee 400 gr bullet, I've fired 100's of them with no problem. Yes the canalure groove is small so you have to re-adjust your crimp die from the deeper grooves in other bullets. That said, I've gone to a milder crimp and bell on my dies to extend brass life on the 480, and I've never had a bullet jump crimp or had accuracy problems.

Also the Lee bullets have been just as accurate as the 390 gr LFN LBT mold I had, and the 400 gr XLFN gc mountain mold. 21 gr H-110 and 1200 fps from a 7 1/2" SRH 480 will but 5 into 1" at 50 yds day in day out.

I've not had any problems loading them in a FA. Just have to watch the oal as it is very close to the end of the cylinder.

Well even with the little bit of bickering on this thread, I've found it a wealth of information and thank all of you for your input. As to the comment on using the full-size lever action, there was an article in PS Mag a while back that sort of led you through the process of reworking a small frame Marlin levergun into 475 Linebaugh, actually he did it in a .50 cal, but also had made 475's.

Just thought I'd throw up a picture of various 475 cast bullets, 275 swc, 310 lfn, 400 lee, 400 xlfn (.51" canulure to meplat for 480) and 460 wfn gc.

The longnose 400 gr lfn was made to provide 475 case capacity in the 480. Much cheaper than re-chambering I've never loaded it past 1200 fps. It was my shooting buddies experiment.

Just cruising through and have to make a couple comments.
First, as much as I enjoy bashing Freedom Arms the accuracy in both .475s was never an issue.
Paul (I think) and Dennis both can confirm that.

Paul, you are being a little hard on Veral who has brought us the LFN and WFN and out of the Keith days as well as Lead Bullet Technology.

What exactly is your problem with LBT moulds?
As a MOD and a fellow shooter here I expected a different dirction.

there taking orders for your dream mold right now here I kind of pushed for this design for my marlin 94 475 custom but its a bullet just perfect for a FA 475http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=20068

I have a pet peeve about boolits with large meplats. All I read in the shooting sites is that they lose stability. I have NOT found this to be true because overall boolit design is more important. Yes, they drop a little more at long range but I have found they are stable and very accurate. I have some heavy .475 boolits here with a .385" meplat that shoot long range like target boolits.

My only problem with LBT is the molds are currently much too expensive for what they are. I've never had a problem with any LBT molds, but when you can get a two cavity ballisticast iron mold for $110, and an aluminum LBT runs $125 for a two holer, I have a problem with that. The ballisticast will last 10 lifetimes of casting, and the LBT just won't hold together nearly that long.

Veral claims that his molds produce vastly more accurate bullets than cherry cut molds, but I simply haven't seen that claim to be valid. Perhaps in BR level guns, but not your average hunting rifle or handgun.

Being a moderator here doesn't mean I can't speak my mind. This isn't one of those forums where the administration is deathly afraid of being sued.

Paul i agree totaly with you. For the same money a ballisticast mold is a much better buy and even a guy like me thats tough on molds will never wear one out. I buy lbts too but because he makes a few bullet designs that just plain shoot well for me but if i could get the exact same bullet in a ballisticast mold theres not a doubt as to which one id buy. Its not that veral makes an inferior mold quite the opposite he makes a fine mold it just that aluminum molds and me dont mix well. there fine for a guy that just cast occasionaly and is careful with his molds but they just dont hold up in the long run for a caster like me.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
My only problem with LBT is the molds are currently much too expensive for what they are. I've never had a problem with any LBT molds, but when you can get a two cavity ballisticast iron mold for $110, and an aluminum LBT runs $125 for a two holer, I have a problem with that. The ballisticast will last 10 lifetimes of casting, and the LBT just won't hold together nearly that long.

Veral claims that his molds produce vastly more accurate bullets than cherry cut molds, but I simply haven't seen that claim to be valid. Perhaps in BR level guns, but not your average hunting rifle or handgun.

Being a moderator here doesn't mean I can't speak my mind. This isn't one of those forums where the administration is deathly afraid of being sued.

I don't have a problem with aluminum molds perse, as I tend to be fairly careful when I cast. It's just I can't see paying more fore an aluminum mold than an iron one, especially with the quality that ballisticast makes their molds.

If I want something unique, I'll go with an aluminum Mountain Mold, they are very well made, especially with his switch to steel sprue plates, and reasonably priced.