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| One of Us |
It has been my experience that full wadcutters are pretty darned accurate from revolvers once the right load is determined. Having said that, what is the advantage of the LBT design or similar over a full wadcutter? I am not a good enough handgunner to shoot deer at 100 yards, nor are my eyes that good any more, but assuming I can hold minute of whitetail at 50, what makes the LBT 240-grain WFN a better hunting bullet than say the old Ideal 429352, which is also ~240 grains, depending on alloy? | ||
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| one of us |
No experience with LBT's but wadcutters ARE extremely accurate. I had always assumed that this was due to the large bearing surface. They are also cast rather soft, as well. Hunting bullets a re always a compromise because you have to get sufficient velocity. The flat nose that is NOT a full wadcutter seems to aid penetration. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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| Moderator |
Wadcutters are accurate at shorter distances. The LFN nose profile will fly straighter, for a greater distance. You will also give up a good bit of penetration with the full wadcutter profile. This is no problem with small game, but even on deer begins to affect performance. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Moderator |
+ 1 -- I agree completely. The full wadcutter is only good for short ranges. LBT designs are the only way to load, IMHO. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, I just miked one of my 44 LBT WFNGCs just behind the flat. It mikes .405", giving me a grand total of .0125" off full diameter of .430, as sized. I sure wish I had a few wild pigs handy. I really would like to do some penetration testing... I admit I am hardheaded, I just find it hard to believe that subtle a difference is going to have all that much effect. | |||
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| Moderator |
That's why the are called Won't Fly Nowhere's. They are accurate for just a bit further than full wadcutters. Regardless of how hardheaded you are; that's the way it is. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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| one of us |
That is correct, the WFN sucks and I can't get much under 1" at 100 yards or less then a few inches at 500 meters. The WLN is better and will cut groups by 1/8". The full wad cutter can not align the cylinder and forcing cone because a side will mash. If the gun is perfect, the wad cutter can shoot very far. Misinformation, old wives tales and those that can't make a revolver shoot will lead you down a path of hopelessness. Did this 50 yard group with a WFN make me angry? Yes, I expected just one hole. I get ticked when a hole at 100 shows 2 boolits. The WFN SUCKS because a few EXPERTS will say it does, so you better believe them.  | |||
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| One of Us |
i've got some very very accurate loads that are wfn. in fact, one of my favorite 454 loads is a wfn load from btb that has a huge meplat and i've gotten great accuracy out of it, both 25 and 100 yards. | |||
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| one of us |
Don't tell anyone!  It has to be a lie. | |||
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| Moderator |
Not a WFN -- it's a truncated cone bullet with a 77% meplat (we copied the nose of the JRH bullet  ). So, it's got a smaller meplat than a WFN.......maybe that's why it flies!  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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| Moderator |
It's good that you have that level of accuracy. I've seen many WFNs take a 90 degree in flight. I have a mold for a 200 grain full wadcutter in .44. The Keiths are an improvement over it for flight as well as terminal performance. Your experiences may be different. Jim, it seems to me you are the one still trolling to stir up controversy. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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| one of us |
Maybe, my friend! You see it is only because of my Freedom comments and hate generated from that and not my work or facts presented. Some hold a grudge forever and attack with relish no matter what I say. How about going after those with a grudge and nasty comments about every word I type? Have you not seen that a few skip between what I write to just find something they can jump on. I do the best I know how to do and to present findings for everyone's benefit but the Freedom grudge is forever. I don't know why I continue with the frothing mouths and hatred shown by a few? I guess I have morals but need to provoke once in a while and watch how you ignore them. How about if you tell them to ease off of me too? | |||
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| one of us |
Actually, it is 78%. You think too much about percentages. It is not important. It is boolit length to twist and the velocity it is shot. It is meplat to forcing cone and alignment. It is movement of the cylinder to align to the bore. It has nothing to do with nose width so an 80% should shoot as good as a 60%. Do I have to make a 90% nose to prove it? I can and you would praise the accuracy. | |||
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| Moderator |
Go ahead and do it. I'd like to see the results. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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When you stop coming on here and try to pass off your prejudices and opinions as fact. When you stop coming on here and making blanket statements because you may or may not have had trouble with an insignificant number of a certain brand of firearms. If you came on here bashing Rugers, and making blanket statements about all Rugers being junk; you'd get the same reaction. Your experiences is diametrically opposed to everyone else I have spoken with concerning FAs. So I just have to believe it is you and not the product. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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| One of Us |
i think i get good wfn flight is because my FA are so perfectly aligned, cylinder to bore, that there's no alignment issues. | |||
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| one of us |
You really see the problem. I bash bad Ruger's and S&W's along with many other revolvers, single shots and rifles that are not all just right. Do you want my opinion of TC's? But one word about a bad Freedom is like the world breaking in half. I find it very disturbing that my posts about lousy TC's are not treated like one Freedom post. If I said Ruger had a bad gun, 1000 would agree. If I said Ruger made a great gun, 1000 would not agree. Do you not see the problem? A Freedom owner is touchy and will not accept the fact a bad gun is as common as a good one. | |||
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OK, next project. I have mold blocks ready to cut. Between you and Whit, what caliber do you want? | |||
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| Moderator |
I like .512, but let's see what Whitworth wants to shoot. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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| one of us |
Most likely the .500 JRH with a .501 Boolit. Give me some time. I need to change a garage window that has a greenhouse against it. I need to move the thing away from the window. | |||
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| Moderator |
Yeah, and Veral Smith also thinks "too much" about meplat percentages and he probably thought too much about them when he designed the bullets that many of us use today. Meplat size has everything to do with how the bullet's weight is distributed, which most definitely has affect on how it flies. Veral will tell you that if longer range accuracy is your goal, the WFN is not your bullet -- a real WFN, not a bullet with a smaller nose. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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We shall see. Be ready to test when I get a mold made. I have no idea what we will come up with but I am willing to play. Do you see a better excuse to shoot more?  | |||
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No excuses needed with me! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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