Is my thinkig correct, in that a pistol scope with a larger exit pupil will make it easier to pick up the scope image? For instance, a Weaver 2x28 (14mm exit pupil) or Bushnell 2-6x32 (16mm exit pupil) set on 2x would be easier to pick up the image than a standard 2x20 (10mm exit pupil) or 4x32 (8mm exit pupil). My reasoning is that the larger exit pupil will cast a larger image circle, allowing me to pick up the image faster.

The long eye relief scope will rob you of light no matter what the specs tell you. If it is dim early morning light or at last light, you will not see anything through the scope, no deer or cross hairs.
Get a good red dot like the Ultra Dot and be happy.
Use a scope for target work during the day but don't expect it to work early or late.

The fact that LER scopes are dark and can be difficult to use in low-light situations is a foregone conclusion. However, for those who have used scopes with differing exit pupils, have you noticed a difference in the ability to pick-up the scope image in scopes with larger exit pupils?

Although i am new to forums as far a s posting.
I can tell that you must not have much experience with handgun scopes. I have Leupold 2 power and the 2-6 Bushnell scopes and when you look through the scope you have full view of the scope tube with either. The ability to get the scope on target depends entirely on your ability that will develope with useage.
when you see full tube view you see full tube view period.
Hope that helps as the Leupold has a 10 MM exit pupil and the bushnell as you already know has a 16 mm exit pupil.
I use scopes often and can tell no difference.
Alot of the time I use the Bushnell on 6 power offhand.
Have a good day.

Fred,

I have fairly extensive experience using 2x20 and 4x28, and I have never liked the tunnel view they provide. I was hoping that a scope with a larger exit pupil would make the view tolerable. I haven't had the opportunity to use a 2-6x32, so thanks for your insight.

Most pistol scopes have a large exit pupil, I believe the 2X has around 12mm. A 4X is a little over 6mm. Your eye only expands to 5mm on the average. That is ALL the light you can utilize entering your eye. This is great with a rifle scope and some are so bright they can darn near see in the dark. But that exit pupil light is not a laser. The light scatters before it reaches your eye from a long eye relief scope.
Leupold told me it is not so and the full exit pupil is available.
I have used pistol scopes since the very first Bushnell was made. I have a pile of all brands.
Do your own test, don't depend on me. I am in the basement right now and if I take my Loopy and look at the window, I get a nice, large, bright picture. As I swing to the paneling, it just darks out and I can not see the wall. The bright spot from the window is GONE. As I move to the other side of the wall, the cross hairs go away.
Now go out to the woods before daylight and just at the time you can start to see the ground and deer, look through your scope and if you can see the deer or the cross hairs, I will eat your scope! Wait for full daylight and all is good but the deer are gone for the day.
Now increase the power of your scope---IT IS DARKER! Exit pupils get smaller as the power is increased. 6X with a 30mm objective is only giving you 5mm of light, now stick the scope out at arms length.
Those that have no problems are not hunting or shooting until full sunup, I never seen a deer stand under me, waiting for better light so I could shoot it.
Since most states allow shooting from 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset, that time is wasted with a scope, and even longer is not good.
Make your own test, I will only say long eye relief SUCKS.

Divide your objective lens diameter by the scope power and you will have your exit pupil. bfr is correct in the eye will dilate to 5mm and anything over this is just extra that can't be used. The rifle scopes have an advantage in very little light is lost due to the proximity of the scope with the eye. LER scopes, because of the distance from the eye, will not have a clear a view. This makes them harder to see in low light situations and more prone to the effects of glare. Additionally, alignment of the scope with the eye when shooting a handgun may make it difficult to achieve a full field of view.

BFR and MSHITMAN: I believe the way he asked the question is kind of misleading. He is not asking about light transmission but is the object that one is aiming at easier to pick up quicker due to the larger exit pupil. Kinda like a small hole peep for a target shooters and one for rapid accusition like a ghost ring set up.
I believe that is the question he asked and I tried to answer it in that direction.
It would be nice if he would make it more clear what he meant as I could be wrong about what he meant.
We all know that the pupil will only allow so much light through it as it will only expand to a given amount due to the light that hits it.
But again I don't believe that really was what he had in mind on this question.
What tipped me off is this response he had to BFRSHOOTER in his response to him eariler:: "The fact that LER scopes are dark and can be difficult to use in low-light situations is a foregone conclusion."
Maybe he will post again and let us know what he actually meant.
BTW BFR I have gotten some of the 457193 bullets from a friend that will fit my chamber throats tight in my BFR 45/70. Haven't really done any work much with the gun since we PM right after I got it but will get busy. I have SR4759 and Fed 155's.
Sure wish you would make a mold for me as I would really like to have one. It would mean alot to me as treasure things I have gotten from people that help me.

Fred,

I thought the last line of the original post made it clear, "My reasoning is that the larger exit pupil will cast a larger image circle, allowing me to pick up the image faster."

So I take it I was right with my assumption. so the answer is no to your question. It does not work like a small hole peep and a ghost ring peep senario

quote:

Posted 31 October 2009 23:02 Hide Post
BFR and MSHITMAN: I believe the way he asked the question is kind of misleading. He is not asking about light transmission but is the object that one is aiming at easier to pick up quicker due to the larger exit pupil. Kinda like a small hole peep for a target shooters and one for rapid accusition like a ghost ring set up.
I believe that is the question he asked and I tried to answer it in that direction.
It would be nice if he would make it more clear what he meant as I could be wrong about what he meant.
We all know that the pupil will only allow so much light through it as it will only expand to a given amount due to the light that hits it.
But again I don't believe that really was what he had in mind on this question.
What tipped me off is this response he had to BFRSHOOTER in his response to him eariler:: "The fact that LER scopes are dark and can be difficult to use in low-light situations is a foregone conclusion."
Maybe he will post again and let us know what he actually meant.
BTW BFR I have gotten some of the 457193 bullets from a friend that will fit my chamber throats tight in my BFR 45/70. Haven't really done any work much with the gun since we PM right after I got it but will get busy. I have SR4759 and Fed 155's.
Sure wish you would make a mold for me as I would really like to have one. It would mean alot to me as treasure things I have gotten from people that help me.

If I have time this winter, I might make you one.
On a scope though, I have been so disappointed trying to hunt with them. I gave up on them. They have cost me many shots on nice deer. The magic hour goes away fast and then you will just sit in the stand and watch squirrels.

I have a love ,hate thing going with EER Scopes.I currantly have 2 on Contenders.They are Leupold 2 1/2 X 8`s.I primary use them for spot and stalk out West.I find them hard to aquire the eyebox and so shoot off a rest.As long as you are not in a hurry and used during the day ,they work fine.I find the Leupolds to be more foregiving than other brands I have used.I much prefer The Red Dot for my Woods hunting.I have no problem using them to 100 yds,which is a very long shot woods hunting.I would guess the brush limits you to shots of around 50 yds. just my opinion,OB

I am returning to open sights for all of my hunting (I still have a few years of good vision left), but I will eventually switch to a good red dot scope (Ultradot, etc.).

The very best in a scope was 1X long ago. They were bright and you did not see the wiggle off hand.
I will never understand why all we can buy now is 2X and up or 1-1/2 by something in a variable. I am gun shy of variables because they are a little heavier and might blow apart easier.

I have been working with a fella clear across the country--in Kalifornia, he has the BFR .475 and I told him how to shoot Creedmore and sent him a blast shield. He is using my loads and I talked him into moving to 100 yards.
He also has the ultra Dot. He tapes a can on a paper target and puts the dot on top like I told him. He just shot this. He had one flier that he says was his fault but he is doing just great. He shot the first group and moved the adjustments, the next shots were in the can.

Long distance teaching works. Frank is his name on the Cast Boolit site and he is a fairly new shooter, a beginner, really.
He is in constant contact and listens pretty good.
He is doing this with an out of box BFR and a 4 minute Ultra Dot. His gun is doing better then he can shoot it.
But it is proof that you don't need a wiggly scope to shoot good. With good eyes, even open sights will do this.
He is having fun and other rifle shooters and handgun shooters at his range pack up and leave when they see what he is doing.
I still expect more improvement from him.