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BFR, you are a legend in your own mind... I know for a fact that a 4" Model 29 weighs more than a 4" 57. You want to compare apples to oranges, go ahead... You know you had your head in the clouds when you said this... All things being equal, the 44 will weigh less than the 41, and with the same given weight bullet will recoil less. Tell me different. You may be an expert on a lot of things, but this time you are flat out wrong. Admit it, and move on... All things being equal, the 41 simply cannot recoil as much as the 44, and we both know it. Don't try to insult me by telling me I need to shoot more guns and do more research. I know what I am talking about. And there are 41 BHs, just like there are 44 SBhs. Again, apples to apples. Just admit it. You spoke before you thought, and you are out on the end of a limb. Nothing personal, just admit you are off base. Best wishes for a really good 12/25, guy. Doubless | |||
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All this talk of model 57's and Redhawks, caused my anxiety to go up! I had forgot and gotten over wanting one, now thanks to you guys got me searching for a 57 or RH!  | |||
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http://www.gunbroker.com There are usually a few Model 57s on there at all times. Like all revolvers now, they are pretty pricey, but typically they are on there. And fwiw, a 41 Redhawk is pretty rare, in my estimation. Get yourself a 57, some IMR-4227 and 210s if you handload, and enjoy the finest big bore caliber ever made, in my estimation. I have ten 41s in different configurations, and I love every one of them. (Some are safe queens, and NIB.) | |||
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They are not apples to apples, there is almost 1/2# difference. Shoot a 250 gr boolit at the same velocity from each calber, one from the SBH and one from the BH and then tell me. You are only comparing the 57 with a 29 with the same barrel length, the standard bullet weight for each and then I agree with you. However when I said some .41's can kick more then a .44 I include ALL platforms because we don't know what gun a fellow has or what boolit he will shoot. I made a general statement and you are being specific. I am still right! I can get specific also by comparing a flat top Ruger .44 with a BH .41, same barrel length, then of course the .44 recoils more. But what if the flat top has a 10" barrel and the BH has a 4" barrel? If there were only two guns made in .41 and .44, a 57 and a 29 and they both came in only one barrel length, that would be the only time I could agree with you and you seem to be stuck in that groove. | |||
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Can't we all just get along...lol    If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Buy the Ruger BH 41mag with 4 5/8" barrel.I bought one and also some ammo from Corbon 1325fps 265gr cast performance bullets & 255gr cp's.A Corbon tech told me they used Ruger BH's to test their ammo.I also have a 4 5/8" barreled Ruger BH 45acp/45lc convertible I added Hogue Rubber grips for better fit and for recoil dampening. | |||
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"Recoil is no different because most .41's are smaller and lighter guns."  | |||
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You are changing your story!  | |||
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Guys, I'm just a bit confused. Back in the old days I compared the 41 Mag and 44 Mag N frame Smith revolvers by shooting them side-by-side. At the time, I found the 44 Mag Smith just beat the crap out of my hand ... leaving the web between the thumb and palm pretty red. Found the recoil dynamic of the Ruger SBH to be very different ... the muzzle just goes up where as the Smith launches back pretty hard. I liked the trigger of the Smith and chose the 41 Mag because (at the time ... some 40+ years ago) I could shoot it most comfortably. (Have since had a lot more experience and find handgun recoil to be much less difficult to handle.) Have things changed and the 44 Mag Smith now has different recoil characteristics and how is less punishing that the 41 Mag? Or are we comparing different structures that have different recoil characteristics? Thanks! Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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Yes, I am comparing different guns where a lighter .41 will recoil as much or more then a .44. The .41 is a hefty caliber with heavy boolits, so close to the .44 there is not much difference in performance and recoil from the .44 does not get worse until you go to 300 gr or more in boolit weight. My original statement only said that if you load heavy in the .41 and have a lighter gun, it CAN recoil more then a heavier .44. I have shot a lot of light .357's that whipped harder then a .44 too. Some fellas just got confused with what I said. I was not comparing the same type of guns. | |||
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My buddies titanium 357 mag has more felt recoil than my 4 inch 500 Mag with 440 gr. bullets. It is the weight of the gun that makes a lot of difference in felt or perceived recoil. And everyone perceives recoil differently. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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 Quick follow up shots are more accurately done double action rather than single action. That is the reason that double action revolvers dominated combat sidearms until the 1990's in this country amoung policemen. Later semi-autos were chosen becaue of greater firepower not accuracy. Very precise double action shooting was done by officers in police matches during the revolver's heyday all over this country, I know because I participated in some of these matches myself. Further I operate my bolts and levers from the shoulder as they should be operated. I will grant you that in most hunting situations double action shooting is not normally used, but I have used it, and have done so effectively and I'm no expert. Most police agencies did not make the move to the .41 because of cost, not because policeman were unable to handle the .41. The different agencies were committed to the .38/.357 platforms, and it was cheaper to train officers with the .38 rather than the .41. Any officer who could handle a full blown .357 load in a model 19 would not have any difficulty with a reduced .41 in a mod. 58. Also most officers objected to the additional weight of the mod. 58 when compared to the mod. 19. | |||
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Very true but it takes practice. Just like it takes practice to cock a hammer. Any handgun has to come down out of recoil and it makes no difference if you have to just pull the trigger again or if the hammer is already back before the gun is out of recoil before you can pull the trigger. But once the gun is leveled again, it is far easier to get an accurate shot without having to lever back a hammer by pulling the trigger. It takes more practice double action and the more recoil involved the harder it is. If you notice, all the super fast double action shooters shoot loads that have very little recoil. Most have a barrel rise of 1" to 2" I want to see you rap off 6 super fast and ACCURATE shots with a heavy loaded double action .44 mag, .480, .475 or .500. Everything I read about the police and the .41 stated that it took too much practice to get a follow up shot because of recoil and the average cop could not control it. Even the first shot scared some of them. Sorry but I have had White House security cops out here with Glocks that couldn't keep shots on paper at 15 yd's. When they watched me and a friend clang steel at 100 yd's with their guns, all we seen were HUGE eyeballs and dropped jaws. They never knew a Glock would shoot that far. I tried to hand them my big revolvers to try and they were scared so shitless none would shoot them. I know how most of them shoot and the guns they carry are for decoration. When you decide to separate match shooters from the average cop on the street you will make more sense. Then you must separate the average hunter from those of us that shoot all year. To tell the average Joe that he will do good double action is a joke! You are invited here to hunt deer with me. I want to see you shoot deer at 50 to 100 yd's double action and then make a follow up hit when the deer runs. Seven yard double action shooters do not impress me with the pipsqueek loads used. I watch Jerry Michelic (Spelling?) shoot and his barrel has no recoil rise to speak of, not much more then a .22. I would LOVE to see him do his tricks with full house 300 gr .44 mag loads. I don't understand why you are trying to snow me???? | |||
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Not trying to snow you at all, just making the point that double action shooting can be useful in hunting situations. Killed my first deer with a handgun at about fifteen yards running, double action, hitting it three times in the chest with a .41 I think double action can be useful when things are up close and fast. I believe the discussion was about the 41, not .44s, 480s, 475s or .500s. You would be correct though that a full house 41 would be difficult to control in fast double action shooting. I load mine with 210s at about 1100 fps, if you slow it down just a hair (still faster than I can shoot single action), good shooting can be done with this load double action. No, I don't care to hunt with you, thanks anyhow. Oh I wouldn't bring Jerry M. into this discussion if I were you. He grew up about 50 miles from where I live. I worked with his brother Donnie, a fine shot in his own right. I have seen Jerry shoot many times before he got famous. Jerry would outshoot you with any handgun or shoulder fired weapon you would be foolish enough to take him on with, period. You really are a legend in your own mind. | |||
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I am sure he would, not the question. The point is that when he does his speed shooting, recoil is reduced. I do not question his great feats and do not profess to shoot better or anywhere near as good. I merely state the fact that what he does can not be done with full house loads. I don't care who you are, when the barrel almost hits your head, speed is GONE. You are getting like everyone else, ignoring facts and common sense and calling me names. Yet you claim to be so good yourself that we should bow down to you. Then you decline my invitation to show me how great you are double action. I can't do it and don't know anyone that can. I would not think of hunting double action and to do so is nothing but a stunt unless you are as good as Jerry. When I state true things there are just too many hot shot experts that claim I am wrong. Sure, I can hit good double action at 10 to 20 yd's but when I have single action at my disposal, why in the world would I shoot at deer any other way? By the way, I only need one shot, not three. You are trying to turn yourself into a legend of not having common sense. I don't stunt shoot when I hunt, I shoot the most accurate way I can. When a deer needs to be shot at double action because of greed, guess what? I let the deer go! You only prove to me you have zero hunting ethics. Some of you just keep sticking your foot in your butts. Whitworth has a great SRH converted to .475. Come here and show me how fast and accurate you are double action so I can post what a boob legend you actually are! If you think I am going to bang off shots at deer double action with that thing, you are nuts in the head!  | |||
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I think we are begining to chase our butts here. First of all, I would agree that quick double action shooting with a .475 does not occur. But the discussion is suppose to be about the .41. All I'm saying is that for me anyhow, good shooting can be accomplished with it double action with the right loads, up close. If you think my shooting the deer at 15 yds double action is unethical, you have that right, I won't even argue. I guess the hog I recently shot at 10 yds, after the herd broke from my dogs, double action was unethical as well, to each his own. I've hunted rabbits with a revolver double action, guess that was wrong of me to do so. I certainly don't consider myself a great shot, and I would not think anyone would bow down and worship my shooting ability, no one has to my knowledge. I think perhaps you and I just hunt differently. | |||
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Jerry is shooting a 38 spcl not a 41 or 44 Magnum pistol. Except in IPSC he's shooting light to moderate loads. In IPSC he is making whatever is required for major. He probably gets more practice in year than most of us get in a lifetime. Regardless of how he got there (sweat, practice, hard work) he is simply and absolutely amazing! Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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There is no argument from me at all, he is one of the greatest shots in history. I love to watch him and Bob Munden shoot. You can all see what it takes to get that good, look at Bob's hands, they are BLACK from shooting. Stop and think of just how many shots it takes to get your hands black! More in a few hours then some of us shoot in a month and more then the average hunter shoots in 20 years. I have shot steady almost all day and never got that dirty. To compare what they can do with what the average shooter, ME INCLUDED, can do is just downright silly. Can any of you picture me telling a new shooter to get double action because it is faster and he can hit better!! The next thing to look at are the loads. They shoot steel at close range. You do NOT want to do that with hunting loads. I have had shrapnel stick in my chin from the .44 from a steel plate at 50 meters. A friend had a hole torn into his thigh that just missed the artery when shooting a rifle into a RR bank at 50 yd's. The hole was an inch round. The piece they dug out weighed 12 grains. Shooting steel poppers at 10 yd's means the boolit can't have enough energy to hurt you after it smashes on the steel. | |||
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One thing is for sure; if you have a double action you have a choice which way you want to shoot it. Single or double action. I shoot my 57 single action when I am hunting unless the intended quarry is very close. Dont most fast single action shooters shoot with both hands. Such that they cock the hammer with the opposite hand they pull the trigger. Try that with a flashlight in one hand. I guess all the police should carry single actions also. God Bless, Louis | |||
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I shoot my single actions with one hand or two. I always use my thumb on my trigger hand to pull the hammer back. Never the opposite hand, that's in cowboy movies or trick shooting. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Gentlemen: Let's try to stick to the original subject of the thread just a little bit. This crap about arguing how fast a follow-up shot one gets with a .475 shooting single action versus double action on a .41 mag thread is just damn silly. If one's revolver is a single action; then you haven't any choice in how you shoot it. If it is double action, then the choice is the operator's and I'm not going to second guess the man. Most anyone willing to put in the effort and practice can effectively shoot game double action when he wants or needs to. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Amen to that! I dont give a hoot how fast someone can shoot paper, but thats just me...... I prefer DAs to SAs, but rarely if ever shoot them DA (try doing that with my .475 yeehaw!)....... Wait, what were we talking about? Settle down folks, not worth raising your blood pressure........ "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Went shooting today, I needed some recoil therapy. Encore in 475 Linebaugh with a Ultra-dot Match dot, 375 JDJ with a Burris 4 X scope and my S&W 460 Mag barrel with a Leupold 2.5X8 scope. The 475 Linebaugh did great with them 400 gr. Montana bullets with 26.0 gr. of H 110. The 375 JDJ surprised the hell out of me with them 250 gr. hard cast bullets from Montana. Tack driver it is.. The 460 Mag barrel blasted a bunch of 45 Colts, 454 Casull's and 460 Mag. Funny how a 45 Colts will shoot 12 inches higher than the 460 Mag when it is sighted in for the 460 Mag. But I did not get to my 410 GNR barrel, buddy had to leave, his wife said he was out playing to long. lol. I think it is Miller time.  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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So I called two gun shops today about ordering the Blackhawk today and the response was the same. Both thought the ruger was discontinued in .41 and neither of them would be able to verify this until Monday. The blackhawk is still listed in .41 on Ruger's website. Has anyone heard of them discontinuing it? | |||
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They discontinued the Redhawks in .41Magnum. I'm not aware of them stopping production of the .41Magnum Blackhawks. According to S&Ws website, they're going to make some classic M57s in blue and nickle. They'll be both 6 inch and 4 inch. Also, they're going to make a M57 night guard with short barrel. JOE MACK aka The .41FAN HAVE MORE FUN AND GET THE JOB DONE WITH A .41 I am the punishment of God… If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you. (GENGHIS KHAN) | |||
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As far as I know, they still have the Blackhawk in 41 Mag. Why not look at Gun Broker, Guns America or Auction Arms. There are a lot of them listed there. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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I tend to buy most of my firearms used. I have found some really great deals on revolvers at GunsAmerica. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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+ 1 I've bought several guns from GunsAmerica, hadn't had a problem. | |||
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I caught a deal on a tracker from a dealer down in Cornell and I am really pleased with the gun thus far. Seems to point shoot and function as I hoped it would. Now I think I'm going to try and find a deal on a 6.5" blackhawk in the same caliber for heavier bullets. Thanks for all of your input. | |||
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