I have been using 335, 340 and 345 grain WLN style LBT Cast bullets in my Ruger Bisley 45 Colt (with velocities in the 1200 to 1300 fps range) but am considering trying a 360 grain Keith style cast bullet. Have any of you tried the 360 Keith in a Ruger 45 Colt and if so can you suggest some loads? I would be using this load for big game hunting. I took my first black bear last spring with my revolver and found it quite fun and exciting. I would like to try for elk with my revolver some day too.

A fellow I am buying a 270 SAA bullet from says that the heavy WLN style bullets can do some crazy things in flight, especially at longer ranges, like start wobbling and maybe not even hit the target. I have not found this to be true out to 100 yards (I have gotten a number of 5" groups at that distance) which is as far as I would ever consider shooting at big game with my open sighted revolver but I wonder if the 360 Keith style might likely be more accurate in general than the WLN style bullets. Any of you have any experience on this matter? Thanks, Bruin

NO! I have never had any heavy Keith boolit shoot good, in fact the lighter ones do not match the LBT styles for accuracy.
It is a bunch of crap that the WFN goes crazy. I shoot them to 500 meters from all of my revolvers. The only thing I see is they drop a little more then the WLN. The length versus twist and the design of the rest of the boolit is more important then the nose shape.
Anyone that can't get a boolit to shoot in their gun will automatically blame the nose being too flat when in fact the boolit does not fit the gun or rate of twist.
Every rifle shooter that tries the wrong weight bullet will go back to the weight that shoots from his rifle but they expect the wrong boolit to shoot from a revolver. It must be their expectations, only a revolver, 3" at 25 yd's is good enough!
I won't shoot any revolver boolit that won't do 1" or less at 50 yd's (I have shot down to 9/16" and 5/8" and with the S&W's, down to 1/2".) and have shot too many groups around 1", even less, at 100 yd's. That is with cast WLN and WFN boolits!
Ask Whitworth what they will do, he has been here and seen it for himself.
Do your own work and don't believe what is said by those that don't know.

Well bfr, I strongly recommend that you take your guns down to 'ol Camp Perry and CLEAN UP, 'cos those 'ol boys have guns that can't match yours for accuracy at 50 yards. Let me know when they carry you around the firing line in the chair.
Peter.

Try the 335 gr LBT with 21.5 gr's of 296 and a STANDARD primer. I use the Fed 150.
That should be the heaviest boolit that will shoot good from the Ruger. I do use the Lyman 452651 boolit that is supposed to weigh 325 gr's but comes out at 347 gr's to poke 5 shots into almost one hole at 50 yd's. Both of these have done 1" at 75 yd's from a Vaquero.
I just made a plain base, WFN mold, 335 gr's, .370" meplat, that will blow your mind with it's accuracy. I shot my fifth deer with it this season, 55 yd's through a tiny hole in the trees. Not easy with the Vaquero sights.

Well, Peter, I guess I will have to sign on to Photobucket or have Whitworth post pictures of targets for me.
I spent too many years in IHMSA to be satisfied with what most of you are. You CAN make a revolver outshoot many rifles but just because YOU can't doesn't mean the idea is wrong. You have to turn around your loading and shooting procedures.
Also take your nose out of the shooting magazines! Anyone that tests big bores at 25 yd's is wasting his and my time.
I have not seen you run down the guys with their .460's shooting super groups at 150 to 200 yd's and killing game that far! They didn't put magic dust in the gun, it is still a revolver.

What are getting at, Peter? If someone has done their load development correctly, 1-inch at 50-yards shouldn't be too difficult. I've even stopped shooting at 25 yards at the range because it is too easy to get good groups even with a marginally accurate firearm. I have seen bfrshooter shoot and he is not exagerating. Aside from paper punching, I have seem him deliver the goods on game which is where it counts. I have shot a couple of his revolvers (.45/70 and .475 Linebaugh) loaded with WFNs and accuracy at a 100 yards is notable.

I've posted this photo before, but here it is again. bfrshooter shot this group with my .475 Linebaugh at 50 yards during load development. It measures 1 1/8-inch. With practice I can see this group only tightening. That was with 420 grain WFNs........

Bruin,

I have a bunch of 360gr. keith bullets for the 45 colt.

I even had a mould made. if you're interested in trying some,let me know.

Dan

first ill say if your pushing 345s to 1200-1300 fps you getting into the area where your loading to stout for a ruger. Ive done it myself and your not going to blow one up but your going to do some premature wear of your gun. 300s at 1300 are about as stout as i go anymore after having to get a few worked on. Another thing is that in my opinion the size of the 45 colt case makes 320s about the high end limit of what a guy should use. the heavier bullets take up to much case capasity and also because of there lenght demand a slower twist barrel to stablize well at the velocitys you can get them up to in a ruger 45. That is why the smiths that build 5 shot 45s use a differnt twist then ruger does. Some work great in the 454 with top end loads but most 45 shooters would do well to stick with 300 grain bullets and theres about nothing that cant be taken with a 300 grain 45 bullet out of a large framed ruger at 1200 fps.

Lloyd is right, no need to push them. Actually the 335 gr is the upper limit for the .45 Colt. My Lyman comes out heavy due to my alloy, not because it is longer. It is supposed to weigh 325 gr's.
My most accurate loads are going 1160 FPS. A longer and heavier boolit needs more velocity to be stable and it just can't be reached in the small case without going over pressure. That is what the .454 was made for.
What is strange is that some well known revolver makers use the same twist for both. The .454 should be a faster twist. Then a heavy boolit would shoot better.
The only damage I ever had on a Ruger was when the grip frame screws got a little loose and I sheared a few. ALL screws must be kept tight! Since 1956, that was my only problem with a Ruger.
Lloyd, can you tell me what happened with yours?

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Well bfr, I strongly recommend that you take your guns down to 'ol Camp Perry and CLEAN UP, 'cos those 'ol boys have guns that can't match yours for accuracy at 50 yards. Let me know when they carry you around the firing line in the chair.
Peter.

1" groups at 50 yards is not as Earth shattering as you seem to think it is....

With my 480 srh, scoped off the bench, I was able to work up 1" 50 yd groups with 310 lfn, 320 lfn, 390 lfn, 400 lee, 400 xlfn, 435 swc and 460 wfn.

Those were 5 shot groups with no effort made to select which chamber I used. I slicked up the trigger a bit, but other than that a stock revolver.

As to the post at hand, a 360 gr swc will be an awefully long bullet in 45 cal, and I'd be very concerned that pressures will rise dramatically vs the ~330's. I'm also thinking if a 330 @1200-1300 fps won't kill what you're after, you need to jump in caliber and bullet weight.

Paul, is right on the mark. A 325 grain LFN is perfectly capagle of taking Bison and Moose or anything smaller with proper shot placement, in 45 Colt. If you need bigger a larger calibber is inorder IMHO

Thanks guys for the advice. I will stick with what I have been using. Bruin.

nothing catastophic but my first 45 vaquero was shot with many thousand round of heavys at levels i wont even post. It was in my younger dumber days. I basicaly turned the gun into a rattle. It would almost jingle in a holster. Dave Clements recued it for me. He did alot of work to get it back into shape. If I wouldnt have had a soft spot for that gun it would have been cheaper just to toss it and start with a new one. While i had it there he cut the barrel roundbutted it and case hardened it and put a drift ajs. front sight on it. its probalby my favorite sixgun. But it sure doesnt see anymore of those TEST loads anymoe. 300s at 1100 are its normal diet now.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Lloyd is right, no need to push them. Actually the 335 gr is the upper limit for the .45 Colt. My Lyman comes out heavy due to my alloy, not because it is longer. It is supposed to weigh 325 gr's.
My most accurate loads are going 1160 FPS. A longer and heavier boolit needs more velocity to be stable and it just can't be reached in the small case without going over pressure. That is what the .454 was made for.
What is strange is that some well known revolver makers use the same twist for both. The .454 should be a faster twist. Then a heavy boolit would shoot better.
The only damage I ever had on a Ruger was when the grip frame screws got a little loose and I sheared a few. ALL screws must be kept tight! Since 1956, that was my only problem with a Ruger.
Lloyd, can you tell me what happened with yours?

I understand!

Guys, I have posted this suggestion before on this website, and maybe even in this forum. This article says just about all that needs to be said about 45s and heavy loads, as far as I am concerned... I am a Smith fan, but the point of my comment is why shoot hotter and heavier, and maybe shorten the uesful life of a fine revolver, when the majority of what we shoot doesn't need that? We aren't talking about Cape Buffalo here, are we? I will guarantee that if you shoot an elk through the lungs with a good hard cast bullet of 300 grains, that elk will belong to you! Put the bullet where it belongs and get out the skinning knife!

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12

And if I am wrong, flame away; the suit is on!

I guess its something like this. If a guy say had two cars a vette and an impala and knows the speed limit is 55 mile per hour. Is he going to pull a plug wire off the vette to take it to town because he doesnt need the power. The vette will make 400 hp just as reliably as the impala will make 250. Both will get you to town but for some of us the vette would be more fun. The smith will push even 300s to 900 fps which is like you said enough to kill about anything. But the ruger will just as reliably push that same bullet to 1200 and hit just a little harder and shoot just a tad flatter. Its like that guy on the car show says. Do you want to drive this car. I DO!

Well said. I love flatter trajectory BUT, accuracy must be attached to it because I never know the exact distance to a deer. I don't want to use holdover or under and want the boolit to hit where aimed.
Kind of like a Vette going fast, yet tracking the road like on rails.

Yup, try 18.0 gr. 2400