Tony, I agree on the .357's versatility, but I'm another one that never really warmed up to them. My first centerfire handgun was a 4-inch Model 28 Highway Patrolman. Since then, I have owned 4-inch L-frame, a 6-inch Security Six and a Model 19. I have never found the .357 with full-house loads pleasant to shoot. There's a snap to the recoil and a harsh bark at the report that makes this caliber uninteresting to me. Can't quite explain it other than to say I prefer to shoot a .44 Magnum or a .45 Colt.

Anyone who doubts the power and accuracy of a 357 magnum want to stand a 100yds away from me and see if the bullets don`t hurt????

It seems a 4 or 6 inch Model 19/66 would be ideal field gun.

Not perfect hunting gun, but all around carry. 686, GP100m DW 15 or 715 are nicer to shoot, but not pack around

I had a 66 and it was NOT accurate enough to be a trusted field gun for me. Too bad to as it was light enough to carry.

IF volume of fire and reloading speed would not be of concern, the Blackhawk may be sorta on my short list too.

Of course as I have been accused of saying, I can load a 44 Mag down to 357 Mag/38 SPL specs, but could never load a 357Mag/38 SPL up to 44 Mag.

All that and I would carry what felt good and was light enough not be tiring at the end of the day.

Glock 20 in 10 mm may need to be on the list consideration too.

My post was not to say the the .357 is the equal of my .44 magnum revolvers, let alone the .475 and .500 Linebaugh revolvers I have experienced. It was however, to emphasize that for the majority of uses I have for a revolver it does the job well, giving full penetration with 180 FN (.280 meplat) launched at 1200 fps. The sharp bark associated with the .357 is indeed tamed a great deal with heavier bullets.

Having said this, had S&W set up the round butt 629 with K-frame size grip frame and trigger reach - as they did with the outlandishly big X-frame guns...

My S&W 686 with 6" barrel and full (extra) underlug shoots 180gr. JHP at about 1200 fps VERY well and the recoil is quite manageable.
Peter.

I absolutely love my little 2-1/2" Model 19 with the Uncle Mike Boot Grips for field carry. It has been given the Robar electroless nickel treatment and is typically stoked with 180-grain handloads. Yes, there is a bit of bark, and there is some muzzle flip, but nothing like a full tilt 250 out of a 4" Model 29. And the 19 is a whole lot lighter!

Doubless

Funny thing, I have had 4" Mod 66's, 4" Mod 28's, 6 and 8&3/8 Mod 27's a 4" Colt Trooper, and 4" and two 6" Colt Pythons, the Pythons custom tuned, but my favorite 357 Mag is a 2 1/2" Mod 19.

I actually bought the gun for Snub Nosed Competition Matches at a couple of the gun clubs I was shooting at back in the day.

I got lucky as this Mod 19 will shoot groups at 25 yards as good as my 6" PPC revolver. It is scary accurate.

It shoots good with magnums too, I have killed many a rabbit with it, to feed the barn cats, where my buddy kept his horse, this was around 1972.

I actually carried it on duty some times, when I needed what it could do better than any other handgun I owned. ie Blast and Flash in a small package.

One time I was on an assignment where it was my "job" to get robbed. These robberies were taking place in a certain area of town where "people" walking down the street were robbed, and beat up badly, by people driving up in a vehicle, or just walking up to, and Jumping on you.

My primary handgun was a 1911, but I carried my Mod 19 in my pocket. When I was called over to a vehicle I would squat down to talk to the people inside the vehicle, and pull the Mod 19 out of my pocket and hold it out of sight, just below the window of the vehicle. If they displayed a weapon I knew that the muzzle flash and blast, of full power 357 Mag ammo, fired into the vehicle would disorient all the occupants with the first shot, and I knew the 357 would shoot through the skull into the brain for sure...

Also same plan, if I was jumped on while walking, the revolver being a LOT better in a grappling situation than a semiauto.

The flash, blast, recoil of the 357 Mag never bothered me, as I knew it was comming, and I was used to shooting full power 44 Mag ammo in my duty revolver.

I still like that "little Mod 19", it has a lot of sentimental value...

And while it would be nice to be able to carry a S&W Mod19/66 as a Field Gun, I just cannot do it...

I got this "thang" about 44's and 45's...

well, i'll say it again, the recoil from a moderately loaded 45 colt or 44 mag will be less than a hot loaded .357 in the typical guns they're loaded in. if the 357 is in a big single action then it doesn't recoil for much but if the recoil is your concern ya can't kill things well with lower recoil in a 45 colt/44 mag. my 105lb 16 year old daughter shoots middle/to upper loads just fine with my 454 with the 45 colt cylinder. she is not at all comfortable with the smith 357 with upper loads.


there is a huge difference b/w the wound cavity of a .243 with proper bullets and a .357. when talking about the margin for error, here's a great example. i recently shot an oryx with my .475L, a 420 gr bullet. hit the top of the lung cavity, on post mortem pics about 3 inches from the top of the cavity. finally put it down after it had run 6 miles, it was sick but needed another shot to finally put it down. if that had been a .357 it may have died but i bet we woudn't have caught it and wouldn't have recovered the animal.

quote:

i recently shot an oryx with my .475L, a 420 gr bullet. hit the top of the lung cavity, on post mortem pics about 3 inches from the top of the cavity. finally put it down after it had run 6 miles, it was sick but needed another shot to finally put it down. if that had been a .357 it may have died but i bet we woudn't have caught it and wouldn't have recovered the animal.

So I guess, based on that one data point, you needed something bigger? Hogwash. Margin for error is margin for error. You make that same shot on that oryx with a 45-70 and you have the same issue... There is no remedy for poor shot placement. Period.

Really one data point doubless? Ya sure that was poor shot placement....youre sure a piece of work.

You in the habit of chasing what you shoot for six miles before it expires? I darned sure am not... What would you call it if not bad shot placement? Ever hear of anyone shooting the shoulders of African game and wonder why they did it? I think you just got your answer...

Yeah, I may be "a piece of work"... but I am smart enough to break something down that has the reputation an oryx has for being tough. And you don't do that with high lung shots. Oh wait... you know that now.

Gentlemen, as the OP, I request that we all play nice.

And I will offer this on shot placement.

Once upon a time I shot a Cape Buff at 12 yards, a Perfect shoulder shot, and called so on video by the PH, with a 480 Woodleigh SP from my 450 No2...

The Buff ran in some very think stuff for about 80 to 100 yards. When we came upon the buff it was laying down, with its back tom us. It started to get up, and I let it have two 480gr Woodleigh Solids into the spine, from 4 or 5 yards. The buff dropped to the ground. I crashed through the bush, and went to the head of the buff. It was still alive, so I drew my 4" S&W 44 Mag, and put a Garrett Hard Cast bullet into its head from about 2 feet...

Somewhere I have a picture of me holding the heart of that cape buff, with a BIG hole right through the middle of it, and it still was able to run a good distance and try to get up on us.

The two solids were well placed, and did knock, and keep the buff on the ground, but it took a 44 Mag to the head/brain to KILL it...
ALL bullets were recovered...

I killed a bigger buff one time, facing me, with one shot to the center of the chest, with a 9,3x74R double rifle shooting a 286gr Woodleigh Soft at 2220fps or so.

Go Figure. SOME animals are just tougher than others, even considering the same or even better shots...

I will do all I can to regain and retain the proper demeanor. I just don't like being told "I am some piece of work".


I will finish my contribution to this thread with this statement, well open to correction (and the gist of what I was trying to convey before being insulted): High shoulder shots are well proven for their instantaneous "drop right there" effect. High lung shots are not nearly as effective, and the caliber used in a high lung shot makes very little difference...

And 450, I have a new understanding of why you hold the 44 in such high esteem.

The .357 I've always considered first a lawman's gun and second a hunting gun. The .44 I consider the other way around.

I used to hunt with ex-lawmen who told stories of the "field" effects of the .357 and what a number they could do on fleeing felons.

But, I have to admit to only taking game with the .44 and .41. I've carried the .357 on hunts but never got a shot. With the .44 I discovered there is definitely that "margin for error". With the .41 I didn't have the occasion to find out - those were real good bullet placement and the result was your basic bang-flop.

Btw, I've never hunted cape buff, only deer. But with deer I on purpose avoid any kind of shoulder shot due to conserving shoulder roasts. I generally try for the lung and many have indeed been high lung. When I've hit that area with '06, .44 or .41 it's the "drop right there" or in two or three steps. That's all in the FWIW dept...

Doubless, you wouldnt get that response if ya didnt assume so much. We are pistol hunting here its not uncommon to. Ot be quite as accurate as one would be with a scoped rifle. Ya think i tried to not get the high shoulder shot. Kinda makes me wonder how mich hunting ya do. We were talking about margin for error. Numerous comments were made about just hitting an animal in the vitals and its game over and its not. Im sure sure ya hit all your shots perfectly dontcha. The day before i stopped a wounded oryx for a hunter with my 454. Slightly better placement and better bullet for the job. You wont get attacked if ya dont attack first.

quote:

The .357 I've always considered first a lawman's gun and second a hunting gun. The .44 I consider the other way around.

Most bullet designs made for the .357 assume it will be for defensive use and to minimize penetration. I believe this is the key to understanding how so many can conclude the .357 does not have sufficient penetration for hunting purposes.

quote:

Originally posted by RMc:

quote:

The .357 I've always considered first a lawman's gun and second a hunting gun. The .44 I consider the other way around.

Most bullet designs made for the .357 assume it will be for defensive use and to minimize penetration. I believe this is the key to understanding how so many can conclude the .357 does not have sufficient penetration for hunting purposes.

You are correct, and you need to be careful when you pick HP style bullets in the 41 Mag, 44 Mag,, and 45 Colt as a lot of them have also been designed for personal protection use, vs the deeper penetration you typically need for hunting.

Let me ask something. For whitetail deer only, is there any style bullet in the magnums or LC you would NOT use? That's assuming we're leaving out FMJ, which is in my state illegal anyway for hunting.

Shack

My own thoughts are, I would just be careful not to pick a bullet, whether in 357 Mag, up to 45 Colt, that the maker advertised for Personal Protection.

I will admit that I could be considered Old School, as I still believe that PENETRATION is KING. You must have ENOUGH of IT.

I do believe that the BIGGER the hole the better, but it must be DEEP enough.

Just rearrange the digits a bit. I saw for sale on Gunbroker a while back a Seville chambered for the bad-ass 375 IHMSA. It was waaaaaay out of my price range, but what I would consider a really neat field gun.

No hi-jack intended.

What keeps me from using my 357 as a general purpose field gun is the ridiculous gap blast and sharp muzzle crack. My 45Colts even when loaded heavy are easier on the ears or at least they seem that way.

I have often wondered what something with a minimum gap such as the Freedom 353 would make any difference as to gap blast and the noise associated.

I really like the 357 in a 16" levergun!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Shack

My own thoughts are, I would just be careful not to pick a bullet, whether in 357 Mag, up to 45 Colt, that the maker advertised for Personal Protection.

I will admit that I could be considered Old School, as I still believe that PENETRATION is KING. You must have ENOUGH of IT.

I do believe that the BIGGER the hole the better, but it must be DEEP enough.

+1……

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Just rearrange the digits a bit. I saw for sale on Gunbroker a while back a BFR chambered for the bad-ass 375 IHMSA. It was waaaaaay out of my price range, but what I would consider a really neat field gun.

Are you talking about the .375 SuperMag or some other wildcat?

quote:

Are you talking about the .375 SuperMag or some other wildcat?

The 375 SM and the 375 IHMSA are the same round to the best of my knowledge...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Remember, there is a Difference between a Primary hunting hand gun, and a Field Handgun, or a rifle hunters Handgun.

In the context of an "all-around" farm handgun, ranch handgun, hiking handgun, trail handgun, or field handgun, etc.....a 357 is an excellent choice. They're generally easy to shoot when light and packable, are great for plinking, and have a well documented track record for protection if needed around black bears and 2-legged vermin. Some professional guides even lean towards them for the bigger brown bears.

In terms of chambering, for dedicated hunting medium to large game and/or protection around brown bear, I personally prefer bigger. But if the worst thing you'd face is a bad person, a 357 is a very good choice.

Best

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Shack

My own thoughts are, I would just be careful not to pick a bullet, whether in 357 Mag, up to 45 Colt, that the maker advertised for Personal Protection.

I will admit that I could be considered Old School, as I still believe that PENETRATION is KING. You must have ENOUGH of IT.

I do believe that the BIGGER the hole the better, but it must be DEEP enough.

+1……

My sentiments exactly.

Bigger hole in the wrong spot is still in the wrong spot

tonight I'm going to interject a bit with more to follow later.

Here is a 357 mag bullet of 180 grains fired through a blackhawk at a butcher steer, weight of 1120 pounds.

this is a before and after pic.



This bullet went thru the skull, broke the first two vertebre and traveled down the neck 26" past the skull coming to rest at the point of the loin beneath the front shoulder.

Proper bullets for the job are a necessity regardless if you shoot a 357, 45 Colt or 500 Smitty Magnum.
No amount of power will make up for hits around the edges, nor will it make up for crappy bullets. However, proper placement combined with bullet construction will prevail. Some calibers have built in a better margin for error.
In my opinion, the 357 starts to preform as a field gun when loaded with bullets in the 180 grain range.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

quote:

Are you talking about the .375 SuperMag or some other wildcat?

The 375 SM and the 375 IHMSA are the same round to the best of my knowledge...

Not the same. The Supermag series are based on the 445 Supermag, which is a whole different animal. The 375 IHMSA is a shortened 375Win with a smaller rim I think. Got to go find mine and measure. I have but one in my collection. The revolver I thought was a BFR is in fact a Seville. It would still be a really cool fieldgun.

quote:

Originally posted by kaytod:
tonight I'm going to interject a bit with more to follow later.

Here is a 357 mag bullet of 180 grains fired through a blackhawk at a butcher steer, weight of 1120 pounds.

this is a before and after pic.



This bullet went thru the skull, broke the first two vertebre and traveled down the neck 26" past the skull coming to rest at the point of the loin beneath the front shoulder.

Proper bullets for the job are a necessity regardless if you shoot a 357, 45 Colt or 500 Smitty Magnum.
No amount of power will make up for hits around the edges, nor will it make up for crappy bullets. However, proper placement combined with bullet construction will prevail. Some calibers have built in a better margin for error.
In my opinion, the 357 starts to preform as a field gun when loaded with bullets in the 180 grain range.

Good info. This is what I am talking about when I "discuss" a Field/Hunters handgun.

IF the load you carry will shoot through the skull into the brain, then your "Field Gun" will do the most difficult job it may have to do, which is keep some sort of animal off of you.

While I would not want to hunt Brown Bear with a 180 Hard Cast 357 Mag, or say a standard pressure 45 Colt, I do know that it would penetrate the skull to the brain, with a heavy hard cast bullet...

I will also say that when I am in Brown Bear country I carry at least a 4" 44 Mag...

However, I have been known to carry a 1911, in 45ACP, in lower 48 black bear and Griz country.

I also want any "Field Gun" I carry to have CCI/Speer shotshells avialable for it...

I found that in the .357 any good hard cast from 158 gr on up gives plenty of penetration to shoot through any bears schull.

They will go over 20 inchs most doing 24 or better.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Not the same. The Supermag series are based on the 445 Supermag, which is a whole different animal. The 375 IHMSA is a shortened 375Win with a smaller rim I think. Got to go find mine and measure. I have but one in my collection. The revolver I thought was a BFR is in fact a Seville. It would still be a really cool fieldgun.

The Supermag series each have their own 1.6" straight walled case.
The 357 Supermag is the same as the 357 Maximum.
The 414 is just a stretched 41 mag, just as the 445 is a 1.6" long 44mag case...

quote:

The Supermag series each have their own 1.6" straight walled case.
The 357 Supermag is the same as the 357 Maximum.
The 414 is just a stretched 41 mag, just as the 445 is a 1.6" long 44mag case...

What complicates the issue is that IHMSA had some 375 SM brass headstamped with the IHMSA logo. If there IS a difference, I think doing that opened a can of worms, if you know what I mean. It created an accident looking for a place to happen.

Finally, FWIW, I have seen no load information for the 375 IHMSA (can't even find a reference to it anywhere on the Interet), but there is load data for the 375 SM available. I find that very curious if they are not the same round. I would really like to see a photo of the two cartridges side by side...

I can send a picture of the IHMSA, if you have a Supermag case and photoshop-like we know nobody ever uses .

I had been under the impression all the Supermags were based on the 445. Learned something new.

Well scratch my balls while hanging from a tree, I'm a monkey's uncle. Found my IHMSA CTG and it is stamped IHMSA and below 375 SM.

Rim diameter .5", case lgth 1.6", ctg lgth 2.1"

I would still like this or a tight fitted 357Max in a 6 shooter for general field work. Now to find out what the difference is between this ctg and the 375 Atomic.........

The 375 Atomic is a 1.4" version of the same round that will fit in a standard frame revolver. http://www.singleactions.com/f...375AtomicUpdated.pdf

APPENDIX 1:
CARTRIDGE BULLET (gr ) POWDER CHARGE (gr) VELOCITY*
.41 Magnum (1) 210 H110 21.0 1,503
.375 Supermag(2) 220 H110 23.0 1,382
.375 Supermag (3) 220 H110 26.5 1,715
.375 Atomic 200 H110 21.0 1,555
.375 Atomic 220 H110 20.0 1,505
.357 Magnum (4) 200 H110 19.0 1,500
(FA Model 353 Only)
(1) - S&W 657, 8.75”
(2) - Dan Wesson Supermag, 8.75”
(3) - Seville, 10.5” barrel
(4) - Freedom Arms Model 353, 7.5” barrel; UNSAFE in any other .357 Magnum

Just as I suspected the 353 is a beast!

High on my list of next sidearms to aquire.

Actually I have used a 357 mag as a "Field Gun".

When I was in College a buddy had a quarter horse.
After work we would go out to feed it and we could do a little shooting.

The place had a lot of rabbits and a barn cat that loved rabbits, so we would shoot one or two of them, whenever we could.
I started using a 2 1/2" S&W Mod 19, that I had bought for snubnosed pistol matches.
This gun was accurate with everything from 38 wadcutters to full power magnums.

One evening I had loaded some Smith & Wesson 110gr 357 Mag factory loads.
I had shot these loads with earmuffs in practice.

However, when we drove in to feed the horse I saw a rabbit in the distance so I stalked up on it and from about 20 yards let one go.

It was a combination of

I did not realize how loud they were. I was shooting in the Weaver stance and my left ear is still ringing...

I immediately opened up the cylinder, ejected the empty and the 5 live rounds, reloaded with 158gr Magnums, twisted down the rear sight the correct number of clicks, with my Swiss Army knife, and holstered up...

I do not think I have ever shot a handgun as loud as those S&W 110gr HP's.
The cat did get the rabbit.

Some times I think manufactures use powders in mag pistol rounds just to make them extra lound and lots of muzzle blast.

So people know that they are shooting a mag.

When I was working up loads for the 357 35 plus years ago I was compareing my hand loads. To some Win 158 gr to a 158 handload.

When I shot both of them the factory was very loud and lots of muzzle blast ad gave me about 1200fps.


My hand loads were not as loud didn't have the muzzle blast and gave me 1300fps.

I seen this with several differant mag handgun loads.

I like BlueDot for the 357mag. I started out useing Win296, but tried the BlueDot one day. I was able to get the same velocities but the muzzle blast was much less.

I've got a 357 Maximum that I carry in a shoulder holster in the field. I often pack 180gr 357 magnum rounds with it. The sight is a Bushnell Trophy red dot.