I'm looking for a low recoil, low velocity load for one of my .357 Magnum handguns. I have about 2000 140 gr. Hornady XTP bullets and I am trying to find a powder that flows or meters easily thru my powder measurer, burns clean and produces a velocity somewhere in the 700 to 750 fps range...Something just for plinking, shooting snakes at close range and easy recoiling with low noise...I would appreciate any suggestions........Thanks .....George

George,



That's a pretty tall order to fill for a .357 Magnum. I looked in my Hornady loading manual and found all the loads for the .357 mag are starting around 1150 fps for that particular bullet. You may want to look in the .38 Special section. Hornady lists several powders for the velocity range you desire. I have had good performance from WW231; it burns a bit cleaner than Unique. I have found 700X to be a bit cleaner burning than Unique as well. However, I use a lot of Unique as it shoots well in my firearms. WW231 meters well for me, but I have not had much trouble getting consistent charges of Unique through my meter either.



If you are going this route, I'd suggest using the .38 Special cases and not use such small charges in the mag cases. I have heard of instances of detonation under these conditions. I have not personally seen this happen and hope not to actually.



I do not know how long you have been handloading, but be very careful using those small charges of fast burning powders as double charging a case is quite easy to do.



Hope this helps

Shoot 38's.I have loaded down the 357 but accuracy is not real good past 10-15 yards.I was shooting 158gr swc and 125grrn cast.

Hitman and Wheelgun, thanks for the suggestions...A little background about me: I've been reloading for 45 years, for my rifles, I have 17 custom rifles, all SS Match grade barrels, all Jewell triggers,etc. I have my own reamers made so I can have the chambers cut just like I want them, all custom dies for reloading,etc. I have 2 Harrell powder measurers, one rifle and one pistol. Please don't think I'm being boostful, just giving you a little indication of my experience level. I like Unique also but I'll be damned if I can get it to meter consistently. I don't know what the "trick" is. I have been working down with H-110. I got down to 10.0 gr of H-110 which was about what I was looking for, with recoil and velocity and yesterday I got a bullet stuck in the barrel. I got it out, finally, but that is obviously too low...I haven't tried W-231 or some of the other powders that might be appropriate...Any more suggestins?????????



G eorge

Try Hodgdon's Universal. It meters well and is suitable for the loads you are looking for. I have had decent success loading 38 special loads in magnum cases using it. H110 and Win 296 are not the right powder for this application. They are designed for high preasure/velocity loads and depend upon that high preasure for proper burning. Both companies strongly discourage light loading.

The stuck bullet was what I was just going to talk about, but it looks like you found it. I think that the velocity that you are looking for would only be safe with a cast bullet.
I shoot alot of 700x for my fast powder. I read somewhere that the flake powders ignite better because the flame from the primer stirs up the powder charge. As apposed to a small ball powder like W231 that doesn't have the surface area for the primer charge to blow around.
I think that you will get more consistant powder charges with a ball powder like 231. But I don't have a problem with 700X in my Dillon.
You may have to raise you target velocity or switch to cast bullets.
I don't know if a faster powder would be more helpful in preventing a stuck bullet or not???

Bullseye seems obvious for that velocity, but probably meters best from the specialized Bullseye measures. I generally charge them all in a 50-round block and check all 50 with a flashlight for even loading level, to aid in insuring that I don't get a double load or a squib load. .38 Special cases might be better than .357, although I wouldn't bet money on it.

There is something about this I don't understand. The question obviously asks for a fast powder, and yet the expert who asked it, with a gazillion years of experience is fooling around with H110 powder, and reducing the charge no less, when all the manuals say "do not reduce the charge below 10%", and it is know that this powder works best (ie. most efficiently) with large doses of powder and a heavy bullet. What is going on here? Elmer Keith's favorite load used 38 spl cases. All the obvious powders have already been mentioned ie. Bullseye, WW231 etc. and all work well for that performance range, and all have been around forever!
Peter.

Peter,
I'm a Rifle shooter. This is my first experience with pistol reloading.....thanks for all your comments and suggestions..FYI I finally broke down and did the "Thing of Last Resort". I called Hodgdon today and talked with one of the ballistic engineers....Yes, he almost had heart failure when I told him I was using H-110 in reduced loads....This is the report: He said "Tight Group" was THE powder to use for reduced loads with the .357 mag. Cases and 140 gr. bullets..He specifically recommended 4.5 grains and said this powder was the most insensitive to case position of any powder that they (Hogdon) had worked with..It meters very well and generally groups as good as other powders of this type.... Thanks again for all your suggestions, admonitions and genuine interest........George

GSH, please, PLEASE do not load H110 or 296 below the listed lightest loads, it can be dangerous.
231 is a good powder as is Unique and I have loaded thousands of loads in magnum cases with great accuracy for plinking. I have no problem metering Unique in my Redding bench rest measure. I do not tap the handle when I dump a load, I just lightly click it against the bottom and then against the top when I raise the handle. Be consistant here and it will drop charges within a tenth of a grain. If you tap-tap-tap, the flat grains will align themselves and give all sorts of variation.
A small tuft of dacron over the powder works for me with light loads in large cases. I dislike short cases because the chamber will crud up between the case mouth and throat.

bfrshooter, Thanks very much for your wise comments..I hadn't thought of the tap,tap, being the problem with inconsistent powder charges nor had I thought of the dacron.....Thanks again....good luck......George

Well, you can tell I don't know anything about pistol powders , as you all know, its "TITEGROUP", not Tight Group..DUH...........George

Did the Hodgdon Guy say that it was okay to run jacketed bullets at that low velocity?

LAR45, Yes he did, that was his specific recommendation for the 140 gr. Hornady XTP, 4.5 grains... I didn't ask him if I could go lower in powder charge with those bullets but I wish I had..We were very clear about which bullet I was using... He said that "TITEGROUP" IS THE POWDER that they recommend for reduced charges in .357 Magnum cases and was very insensitive to the powders position in the case.... George

gsh284win. Thank you for your very courteous response to my impolite message. You might also want to try AA#9 which is also a fast powder, but might well be better at higher velocities. As other posters have mentioned, at the velocities you want you would probably be better off shooting cast bullets, perhaps the 148gr. wadcutters.

Good luck, Peter.

Peter,
Thank you for your comments...I would try lead bullets, but those I've talked with tell me that they foul and lead the barrel so badly that it has discouraged me. I don't know that much about handguns and lead/jacket bullets but I know how to clean copper out of barrels so thats why I was looking for a pleasant jacket bullet load....
Actually, My Uncle died and left me 2 very nice .357 revolvers, several hundred jacketed bullets and about 800 cases and dies....He shot full power loads, thats where the H-110 "came from". He had most of an 8# keg left. I'm open for more suggestions but the ballistic engineer from Hodgdon said specifically that "TITEGROUP" WAS THE powder for low velocity jacket bullet loads. He suggested 4.5 grains with a 140 gr. jacketed bullet like the Hornaday XTP. Thats what they use and recommend...Any thoughts?????
George

George,

Unless you are hyper sensitive to recoil the 140s at velocities on up towards 1100-1200 fps should not give you trouble in a large frame .357 magnum revolver. You do not say the model of firearms left to you, but I shoot cast bullets out of my S&W at over 1300 fps with no leading.

Using the proper cast bullet for your application makes all the difference in the world. Swaged bullets are going to lead the barrel heavily if overdriven, and that's not hard to do, as well as very hard bullets underdriven. By the time you have gone through the reloading supplies you have on hand, I'd say you'll most likely feel comfortable enough with handgun reloading to start branching out.

Keep us posted.

It sounds like the 140 XTPs will do well, and you might as well shoot them if you've got them.
I shoot mostly cast bullets out of my handguns. I cast from wheel weights and lube with Javalina. I don't get any leady with 340gn plain base at 1350fps out of my 454. I shoot 357 mag, max, herrett, 45colt, 45-70, 44mag... A good hard cast bullet should not cause any problems in a handgun at all. It does need lube on it though. ( I had one friend that was shooting cast out of his 357 S&W 686 and was getting terrible leading, he decided he didn't need to mess with the lube. We lubed him some bullets and the leading went away.) You will need to have the bullet be .001" over bore diameter. So a .357" pistol, size to .358. 44mag .429" size to .430". This can vary up and down but is a good place to start.
If you want to get more detailed cast info, then check out the cast section of this site.

H110 is too slow to dpwnload. If you need a ball type powder, give AA#5 a try. If you want loads in the 700fps range, not really good idea w/ jacketed bullets, go to the .38sp case & AA#5.

MSHITMAN,
I wanted to give everyone a little report on the results of my testing so far: I shot the 4.5 gr. "TITEGROUP" load with the 140 gr. Hornady XTP bullet this weekend. I was shooting a Colt King Cobra with a 6" barrel... After I got it sighted in like I wanted it, I shot 2 five shot groups at 15 yards. You could completely cover both groups with a quarter... Now I know thats HO HUM for most of you but for me its the best group I've ever shot with a handgun. Then I moved on to 25 yards and shot Metal Silhouettes...they were easy too.....
Since everyone keeps suggesting cast bullets, I'm wondering where I can find a good source of cast bullets. Bullets that have the correct hardness, have a gas check and are lubricated properly. I'm interested...Any suggestions????
I'm going to try 5.0 grs. of the "TITEGROUP" with the 140 gr. Hornady XTP later today and I"ll keep you posted...
Thanks again for all your help....