I am going to show you...the entrance and now the exit This is a .453 projectile damage,at mild velocity.It doesn't just poke caliber holes.

Yeah, that's the common misconception of cast bullets with big meplats -- the myth that they punch caliber sized holes through the game and do little damage. I'll put up some photos later on......

Pictures are worth a thousand words. Great info

quote:

Why do you prefer cast?

I prefer them, because as your photos prove THEY WORK and are extremely efective

Here are the two shoulders of a hog I shot in Florida a few years ago. Everything between the shoulders was wrecked. 420 grain WFN from a .475 Linebaugh.





This is a hog I shot in '07. This is where the leg used to be. We pulled it off with a gentle tug while skinning. 400 grain WFN from a .454 Casull.




I'll try and dig up some more.

Not sure where the idea that cast bullets only make a one caliber hole originated but anyone thats used them will just smile & keep on skinning when they hear it.
Will they expand as much as a jacketed slug...usually not, but they can. What they will do is give you some expansion & they will always give you penetration & that penetration will be straight & deep, usually exiting on almost any animal if the correct caliber is chosen.
This is the off side lung on a muley buck I shot at 108 yds with a Ruger 357 Maxie & a 205 gr cast slug at about 1450 fps (muzzle) you can clearly see it expanded very nicely even at that distance on a broadside shot.


You probably don't need an explanation on this one...you can see the blood is everywhere. This large cow was shot at 168 yds with an OM Ruger 45 & a 260 gr Keith, she didn't travel 20 yds & she was running hard after the impact.


Here's whats left of the heart from a Wyoming muley buck taken with a 41 maggie & a 230 gr cast slug at just under 100 yds, it obviously expanded some & still exited by the rear ham & this was a head on shot.


Heart & lungs from a calf elk taken at about 45 yds using a Ruger Bisley 45 & a 325 gr cast slug, thats a lot of damage!


This is the lungs from last years cow elk, she was huge! Ruger Bisley 41 maggie & a 250 gr LBT, she never took a single step, the shot was 74 yds broadside.


Something that never gets mentioned & most people don't understand is, when you shoot jacketed you shoot what you buy, that is, you can't adjust the bullet hardness, you can only increase the velocity to get expansion. With cast you can adjust the hardness for the job at hand & of course you can also take the velocity up or down depending on the animal being hunted.
I have no argument with those that like jacketed slugs, I do have an argument with those that say cast doesn't work or cast won't expand, nothing could be farther from the truth.
If you use cast you already understand this, if you don't use cast I can't convince you otherwise, you have to figure it out for yourself. Those of us with a lifetime of using them don't need to see photo's of gut piles to know they work.
I can make a cast bullet out perform a jacketed slug on any occasion & I can do it everytime... & I'll get penetration everytime.

Dick

What alloy are you using on these Elk?

I'm planing to try a LEE 300 @ 12-1300 out of my 454 next season.

Actually I stated that wrong, what I'm showing is the bullet damage from cast slugs WITHOUT expansion, they do a lot of damage with that flat nose, even at medium velocities.
Dogchaser, I usually use the softest bullets that will stay accurate, if its not accurate then it isn't much good! Mostly I used straight WW alloy or 50/50, WW & linotype & they are running around 1100 fps most times. Many people get really caught up in "hard cast" what is that? Anyway, I want accuracy but I'll take some expansion if I can get it. I'm not looking for 1" groups at 100 yds with a revolver, if I can stay under 6" at 100 yds under field conditions I'll take every animal I shoot at, this with iron sights. I hunt on the ground.
Your 300 gr slugs at 1200-1300 fps will work terrific, use them with great confidence.

Dick

Good demo shown on the real deal about cast bullets. Dick, don't you just love those Leupold Pocket binos? I have a pr of the 10x28's like yours and they are quite handy to have around your neck. I am not sure if they make them anymore.

The folks that taught me Single Actions only shot jacketed bullets if they were given to them. They practice with them.
They had tested cast and jacketed and cast was the prefered bullet.
They were particular about their casting.
They never had any problems.
Cast is all I ever use now.

Cottonstalk

What cartridge, what bullet, what range and what is "mild velocity"?

Just full of questions.

quote:

Posted 14 November 2010 09:11 Hide Post
Actually I stated that wrong, what I'm showing is the bullet damage from cast slugs WITHOUT expansion, they do a lot of damage with that flat nose, even at medium velocities.
Dogchaser, I usually use the softest bullets that will stay accurate, if its not accurate then it isn't much good! Mostly I used straight WW alloy or 50/50, WW & linotype & they are running around 1100 fps most times. Many people get really caught up in "hard cast" what is that? Anyway, I want accuracy but I'll take some expansion if I can get it. I'm not looking for 1" groups at 100 yds with a revolver, if I can stay under 6" at 100 yds under field conditions I'll take every animal I shoot at, this with iron sights. I hunt on the ground.
Your 300 gr slugs at 1200-1300 fps will work terrific, use them with great confidence.

Yes, I agree. Hard cast and BHN numbers are the worst measures. Hard can be WD WW metal to oven hardened 50-50 or clear to lino metal.
It is the toughness of the metal to take the rifling without skidding that counts.
Making a boolit tough enough without changing the ductile qualities works better but if a revolver is too fast then a soft nose with a harder drive area works best.
I feel the ideal velocity between 1300 and 1400 fps never needs any expansion as long as the meplat is decent. WW metal is as good as it gets in this range. Go slower or faster and then you really need a little expansion.
The problem with most shooters is they think an explosive bullet kills better so they look for huge mushrooms. Then the book reading about energy and velocity will dominate their thinking. I really hate when a guy asks "HOW FAST" can I get this bullet because it has "X" amount of energy.
I have killed quite a few deer with a cap and ball revolver using a little round ball that really killed faster then a .44 mag to get on the velocity bandwagon.
I don't know why more guys don't listen to your great experience.

TCLouis here are some specifics the load was a 300grWFNGC from Montana Bullet Works traveling around 1100-1150fps out of a 45colt with a 4 5/8"bl Ruger modified Bisley and the shot distance was approximately 70 yards.I can squeeze out a few hundred more fps but what's the point.

That big 300 gr stogie at 1100-1150 fps will absolutely hammer anything short of the big bears & would probably work just fine on them.

Dick

I used jacketed for years, with mixed results...a buddy of mine was really into cast bullets...was a CBA cometitor and all...was all he ever used in his hand guns.....I tried them over 30 years ago, and have never gone back to jacketed! They work the same each and every time!!!!

Flattop;
That is it exactly. Removing variables. You cast a good bullet, you know what it is going to.

Beginning, end.

Agreed!

ISS

PRICE I cast my own.

Ive been experimenting with some 300 gr WFN cast bullets in my 44 Mag. 18 gr H110, Ruger SBH with 4 5/8 barrel. Anyone got an idea on velocity? They shoot good, and feel like a grown up load, although not pushing any limits by any means. Performance wise, well, I slaughtered a hog last week, bout 150 pounds, shot point blank in the back of the head, and the bullet didnt exit. Hog died a humane death and all, but I thought for sure it would have exited. Should I raise the powder charge? Im not recoil shy, but I dont want to shoot somethig thats gonna break my nose for me either. Any suggestions? I appreciate it.

Farrier Matt; I would "guess", and this is only a guess based on averages for velocity loss in handgun barrels that your velocity would be in the neighborhood of 1100 fps out of the 4 5/8" barrel. Out of an 8 1/2" barrel, my charts show a velocity of 1266 fps with you bullet weight and load...average loss per one inch in a handgun is about 40 fps (actually around 30 to 50 depending on the caliber, twist, bore condition, etc). If the bullet did not exit, and you intend on it doing so, my first question would be concerning bullet alloy, not velocity. I work all my 44 mag loads at a tad over 1000 fps and have had excellent penetration results with all, regardless of bullet weight. Also, where is the bullet? Did you recover it? Looking at the bullet would give us a better indication of what happened. If the bullet shattered upon impact with the skull, then the alloy may be too hard and/or not malleable enough. If the bullet mushroomed or flattened when impacting the skull it may be too soft. Also, did the bullet take a straight path through the skull and brain matter...if not you may have stabilization issues. All of these cases would reduce penetration.

Thanks for the reply FLat Top. I couldnt find the bullet, I imagine it stopped somewhere in the head, and honestly had enough to do that day that I didnt feel like digging for it. The bullets are from Hunters Supply, not sure on the hardness or softness. They seem to shoot good, no leading accurate, etc. Ill try to recover a few and see if theyre mushrooming or breaking up and get back to you. Im new to the forum, but have really enjoyed reading some of you alls posts, very imformative. Thanks for the reply and thanks for having me.
Matt

Matt; Welcome!!! I used to cast my own for many years, but time is something I dont have much of anymore...anyway, I have been using Beartooth Bullets for a number of years, and I have had great success with them. The alloy is very suitable (actually designed) as a hunting bullet, and the weights are remarkably dead on from one bullet to the next...they have shown to be extremely accurate...and, excellent penetrators! Try and dig up that bullet and lets see what happened...and more shall be revealed!

The amont of bone encountered will also have an effect on pentration. Example, I shot an Asian buffalo in the shoulder the bullet broke the onside main support bone and exited through the off shoulder, leaving the animal for parts unknown. I also placed a finsher in through the sid eof the head just under to base of the horn because of the density, thickness of the bone in this area the bullet made it the the off side of the brain pan and embeded there. I cut the skull open and recovered the bullet. The bullet lost 1/2 of its lenght.

This was with a 425 grain bullet from the 500 JRH at 1389 +or- FPS

Well Flat Top, the porker has been disposed of, but gun season opens here Monday, maybe Ill get to shoot a deer with the 44, Ill give you a report if Im able.

I must say I love hard cast. With that said I shot a perfect eating pig about 85lbs at 80 yds w/ my Win. 44 Trapper. Popped him right in the heart. He turned and ran. Problem was I couldn't see that he only ran 10ft off the pipeline. I thought I missed. 300grn WFNGC from Cast Perf. drilled a perfect hole right thru him. Didn't hit anything to open up the bullet. He looked like I used a 1/2 drill on him. PS. tasted great!

Matt; Get a shoulder shot if you can...that should shed some light on how that bullet performs. My first cast bullets that I made years ago were dismal when they hit heavy bone. The more I played with and tried different alloys, the better the performance. For hunting, I finally settled on straight wheel weights, and they worked as well, or better than any concoction I could come up with. Heavy bone shots are the key to cast bullet performance...if they will penetrate through that, they will do for anything else. It shows that they are hard and tough, yet not so hard that they will break up...too brittle.

Flat top, do you water drop your bullets?

Whit; I dont cast anymore...no time, but I never did water quench. Now I use Beartooth Bullets....very good....very accurate. I have also used Montana Bullets as well...again, very good. All of Beartooths bullets are hunting grade alloys, and Montana has both hunting and target/competition alloys upon request, and paper patched for the old timers. With my traveling job during the racing season, I have just enough time to build guns, and reload during the winter, so, I just purchase my bullets.....these guys are better than I could ever be anyway.

I like cast bullets bacause when I cast them I can match the hardness to the load levels. Soft for light plinking loads, harder for heavier loads.
Casting also saves me a lot of cash. This lets me shoot much more.
More shooting make better shooters.

quote:

Posted 06 December 2010 02:41 Hide Post
I like cast bullets bacause when I cast them I can match the hardness to the load levels. Soft for light plinking loads, harder for heavier loads.
Casting also saves me a lot of cash. This lets me shoot much more.
More shooting make better shooters.

All of my testing has shown that the faster the powder for the light plinking loads, the harder the boolit needs to be for accuracy. Even harder then WD WW's will cut groups by over half and even more.
As powder burn rate slows, you can use softer and AC WW's works fine in most cases but I WD everything. Just makes casting easier then fooling with towels and rags to drop boolits on.
I use some 50-50 WW and pure, oven hardened but in my revolvers I need a gas check on these.