Liljohn,

Appearantly you get a little offended when someone states something unkind about your newest baddest baby.

To be fair with you, I have never tested a FA 454. I have developed loads for several Ruger SRH's and they are flat out mild to shoot with MAX loads(300 gr @1700 fps) compared to the 500 S&W for me at least.

You need to realize that different people feel recoil very differently. I prefer the revolver to roll in my hand, not to come straight back into the web of my hand, thats just personal prefference and what I like, if you do not then your obviously different then me.

Its funny that you say your getting these hellish velocities with your 500 when I developed loads for the 500 S&W I tested, at 1650 fps with the 440 gr CPB the primer pockets were noticably loosened at this level, still usable but loosened. For you loading for yourself this may be ok but for me loading for a customer, it is totally unacceptable, end of story!

This could be the variations of this particular revolver compared to others but still, it would not be safe to take this revolver up to 1700 fps and now where near 1800 fps using W-296 or H-110, it may be possible with you but I do not have your brass to see if it is or not.

I would also like to witness you shooting 150 rounds of 450 gr @ 1800 fps because I beleive you are stretching the trueth a bit, unless you are shooting with a gloved hand, in that case, well, I'ld still have to see it to believe it.

I do not shoot with a clove because I do not like the feel, nor do I hunt with a glove. I like the control I have with a bare hand and that is how I hunt, THis no doubt will cut my max rounds fired compared to a gloved shooter.

Also, I was shooting off a bench, one handed for accuracy testing, not off hand with a two hand hold.

It is also appearant that you fall into the crowd that feels kenetic energy is the end all of measuring hunting rounds. I will tell you for a fact that if we take game up to say a 1500 lb bull moose and if you hit the thing with your 500 with the 450 gr bullet at 1800 fps at say 50 yards and I hit the bull in the vitals with my 480 Ruger loaded with the 425 gr CPB driven to 1200 fps out of my SRH, both rounds would fully penetrate and the bull would die the same for both, that being if you hit the vitals as well.

If I were hunting dangerous game with a handgun, I would select a 475 Line. because of its greater penetration charactoristics compared to the 500 rounds. You will find that higher velocity is not always a benefit when it comes to penetration. In fact it can often be a detractor for penetration.

I would feel totally confident to vent a bull moose through the lungs with my lowly 44 Mag with 300 gr hard cast bullets at 1350 fps. When I put the bullet in the right place, there will be no difference in end result, this is a fact.

In handgun hunting shot placement is the top priority, having a quality bullet is a given if you know what you are doing and know a little about the game you will be hunting. Kenetic energy is nearly meaningless and for a stopping round, I'm sorry but even your 500 is a puss when it come to stopping a fight without a central nervous system hit.

If you look at the fight stoppers used in Africa and India, they will nearly double your energy numbers from your monster 500. One would start with rifles such as my 458 Lott driving the 500 gr solids at just shy of 2400 fps. That load musters up nearly 6300 ft/lbs of energy and it is considered a minimal fight stopper by professional hunters.

On heavy thin skinned game such as bull elk, they will take your +3000 ft/lbs and show zero signs of impact, just as they would my +2000 ft/lbs load, the point is to drive that big flat nose through the vitals and as long as you have adiquate penetration, the critter will die just the same with both loads. Again, a well proven fact!

Chronograph the 330 gr load from UltraMax before you start comparing it to the 440 gr load please, it is roughly a maxed out 44 mag load.

Your fasination with energy numbers surprises me if you are an experienced big bore handgun hunter. 600 ft/lbs is all but meaningless if those same two bullets hit the vital zone.

And to answer your question about the 30-30 vs 308 question. The 30-30 has put several times more venison in the freezer then the 308 or 30-06 combined. In its useful range, out to 200 yards it is fully up to taking game such as elk and moose. If you do not believe that then your opinion is obviously uneducated in such manors.

There is nothing the 500 S&W can do that smaller, lighter, easier to shoot revolvers can not already do, except draw people into the high energy numbers plot to sell an oversized revolver.

As far as the accuracy of the 500 S&W goes, I have heard from at least a dozen 500 shooters that own both the S&W and the BFR, that their BFR will shoot circles around the S&W, this is nto a once in a while thing, I would say 85-90% have told be this. Most say their BFR will shoot the same size groups as the S&W at twice the range.

If I offended you with my honest review of this one handgun, Well I will not apologize because this is how the revolver tested out, sorry for the facts with this one revolver but I will not blow smoke up your skirt just for the sake of flattering 500 S&W owners. This handgun performed well below the level I expected which was established by years of experience with other big bore revolvers and handguns. Had it been able to hit 1700 fps with 1" groups at 50 yards, I would still not get one as a hunting handgun.

If I wanted those types of energy numbers, I would pull out my 338-300 WSM, XP-100 which will drive the 180 gr bullets to 2950 fps(3480 ft/lbs), 200 gr pills to 2800 fps(3483 ft/lbs) or the 225/230 gr pills to 2650 fps(3510 ft/lbs). Look up how a 230 gr Fail Safe at 2650 fps will compare to your 500 at 200 yards in both energy, trajectory and velocity. Oh and yes, penetration as well.

True my 338-300 WSM handgun is only a single shot, but it will hold three rounds inside 3/4" at 200 yards as well out of its fluted Lilja 15" barrel. For anything up to Cape Buffalo and larger my 338 would make your 500 look silly as far as on game preformance goes, and on the larger stuff, it would do at least as well.

There are better hunting revolvers on the market that will handle any revolver hunting chore with less money, recoil, blast and with more accuracy.

Just wondering, how many head of big game have you harvested with your 500,How many of those dropped to the shot with out a major bone hit or a C.N.S. hit? How many head of big game have you harvested total with your big bores? I am not trying to demean you, just want to knwo what level of experience you have! Problem is that you do not have to be honest here on the web, it sounds like you are relatively new to big bore revolver hunting, at least from how you spout your numbers on kenetic energy, seems a little suspect to me.

50

I was a member of shooters choise for about 4 years until they raised my membership cost from 125. to 125. plus 5.00 for every time I shot and I was shooting about 3 to 4 times a week so I let my membership expire and haven't shot there scence then. I am a member at the range in Suddlersville, MD
Been a member there for 17 years. I shoot in the USPSA matches they hold there also.
I reload all my guns the 500 is one of them.I bought my 500 at this dealer that handles S&W guns his name is PAUL,
same name as the dealer on route 10 witch I know well. I got a real good deal buying the 500 it was right after they first came out. I'll be at the range in MD saturday morning about 7:20 I shoot with this guy that works for the sheriff
If your are coming I'll bring my S&W 500 also.

It was PJ's costal Hunting and Fishing where I got my 500.
That shooters choice wants an arm and leg for there guns. I never bought any of mine there. I know there price was 125.
til they wanted more money they offered me the same deal you got but I wasn't a happy camper seeing how I was one of the first members. It only costs me 35. to shoot in MD.

Fiftydriver I shoot a 358 win. encore at 100 yd and get .75 in. groups with handloads. My buddies can't believe how accurate it is. Next time I go to the range I will save targets and see if I can post them. I feel the 500 is going to be extremely accurate! The trigger is great . 15 -20 hot rounds my right hand does get little numb!!!

Laredo Kid,

There is no doubt that the 500 S&W has great accuracy potential, most big bore revolver rounds are suprisingly accurate with proper loads. Still the weakest link in accuracy is the revolver itself. S&W simply can not put the time required into their 500's to get them to be real tack drivers.

It is easier to do with a single action because there are less non-fixed parts that are critical to accuracy.

You load that 358 to its full potential and at ranges outside of 100 yards, it to will make the 500 look silly on game. No matter how well the 500 shoots, it will never hold a candle to a fixed breech hadngun such as the Encore and especially the XP-100.

Not chamber one of those two handguns in the 500 and the round would flat scare you to death.

I am not afraid to admit that 20 rounds is all I want to shoot out of the 500 in a single sitting, I to get a little shaky and tingly in the hand.

Thanks for the reply!

What loads and performance are you getting with your 358 in the Encore? WOuld be very interested in how you load it.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Fiftydriver,

This is a childish and ill-informed post. Questioning someone's credentials and honesty simply because they eviscerate your argument does not reflect well on the poster. Liljohn in no way expressed offense at anything you wrote; he merely disagreed and expressed his opinion and experiences.

CorrectiveAction,

I just reread my response to LilJohn and I fail to see any instance that I was anything but factual with my response.

I never did question his credentials, just want to know what field experience he has to back up his comments about kenetic energy being so valuable when teying to anchor big game animals.

LilJohn did not offend me in any way, but I do take his post as being a bit offended that I would review the 500 S&W in such a mannor.

I have delt with may dozens of shooters claiming extreme velocity, extreme energy, BR accuracy and being able to handle any recoil know to man. When called on it 90% of them are practicing unsafe loading techniques, pulling energy numbers off ballistic charts, shooting groups several times the size they are reporting and actually flinch like they have been hooked up to 110 volts when they are actually called on to shoot with a witness.

If LilJohn is getting these numbers, so be it, I did not and I also stated this could be variations between two different revolvers.

From my experience in the hunting fields and off the loading bench and from dealing with hundreds of shooters, some very experienced and many very un experienced, LilJohn sounds like is actual field experience is very weak.

I made my review of the 500 S&W and it was a 100% honest one. If you want smoke blown up your skirt, read one of the popular gun mags, they will give you just what you are looking for.

He did not merely disagree with me, he flat stated I was wrong in my review. SO I inquired to his experience and so far have yet to hear back from him.

I hope he will respond and be honest in his response. Personally from what I have seen in testing this round, 1800 fps with a 450 gr bullet seems pretty hot, and from what I have seen with this specific revolver as well as speaking with many others with the S&W 500, he is truely lucky if he is getting the groups he is stating.

I also know for a fact that kenetic energy is a veru poor criteria to judge a big game round by. It is almost useless in rifle load comparisions and it is totally useless in big bore revolvers.

The factors that matter are, penetration, frontal area, and bullet weight.

If your shot is true and you have enough penetration to drive through the vitals with enough frontal area to disrupt the vital tissue as the bullet travels and the bullet is heavy enough to retain enough momentum to get the job done, kenetic energy is extremely unimportant.

I carre very little if someone does not agree with me on my review because every revolver will perform differently. But I get my opinion of LilJohn from the FACT that he stated I was flat WRONG in my review.

Maybe he could send me his revolver and loads and I will test them and review them and respond. Perhaps he would agree with that review, perhaps it would shed aome light on his experience.

Agian, I did not ask how experienced he was in the field to belittle him at all, I just wanted to know how experienced the man behind the words was. Its very hard to tell if someone is experienced in the field or in the library.

At this time, I would guess LilJohn is better with his ballistics charts and calculator then his revolvers.

There was nothing CHILDISH from either one of our posts, I know there was nothing ill-informed from my posts, just the honest review of the 500 S&W which was echoed by several other posters.

Thanks for your input and welcome to Accurate Reloading!!

Good Shooting!!!

50

liljohn,
Max load for the 440gr bullet for the 500 is 1707 fps unless you have some different load info.

Fiftydriver - Liljohn - or any one who else
500 s&w
350 gr. sierra hp
starline brass
win lr primer
42 gr. h110
aol 2.040
.75 3 shot group @ 50 yd.

500 s&w
325 gr. speer hp
starline brass
win lr primer
43 gr. h110
oal 2.085
shot decent -2 in. 3 shot group @ 50 yd.

358 win
225 gr. nosler part.
win brass
win lr primer
46.7 gr varget
aol 2.760
.6 in 3 shot group @ 100 yd.

I will chrony these loads soon.

Fiftydriver,

Fair enough. Based on your response, I assumed you were offended by Liljohn�s comments and responded accordingly. Liljohn�s post did not strike me the same.

I stand by my comments regarding your questioning his honesty. Stating that �you do not have to be honest here on the web�, before he�s even had a chance to respond, strikes me as an unsubstantiated personal attack. Guess we�ll have to agree to disagree.

BTW, my choice of �ill-informed� was relative to Liljohn in particular, rather than the .500 S&W or handgun hunting generally.

As for the .500, my experience has been quite different than yours, and closely parallels LilJohns. I shot a friend�s .500 and was so impressed I bought one myself. It�s quite large but balances well for me (less so with the 2X Leupold I installed for testing). The performance is very impressive, and the recoil is manageable to my hand.

I�ve been able to get close to 1700fps with the 440gr CPB without excessive pressure signs. With 296/H110 I�m limited to factory level performance (~1625fps) but I can exceed that with LilGun and reach almost 1700fps with AA1680. Other bullet designs, as detailed by John Ross on the S&W forum (http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/cgi-bin/sandwcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro), would probably improve on that. My accuracy has ranged from 1� at 50yds to 2.5�, depending on the load and bullet (I�ve also used the 370gr CPB). A number of loads have been in the 1�-1.5� range, which I find very satisfactory. I�m looking forward to testing at 100yds to get an even better idea of the performance capabilities.

The recoil is much less than I expected. I�ve only shot 50 rounds at a single range session with heavy loads (440gr @ 1550-1650fps), but I didn�t feel any significant soreness in my hand or exhaustion afterwards, which can happen to me after shooting the really big stuff. I wore a glove, but I wear a glove whenever I shoot a heavy-recoiling handgun, so the comparison is still valid.

It�s ironic that you compared the .500 to the .480 Ruger and T/C Encore, as those are the last two large-bore handguns I�ve bought, and they performed so poorly I sold them. With my Super Redhawk .480 accuracy was very poor (as much as 6� @ 50yds) and I would get difficult extraction far below the performance level I was expecting. When I tried lighter bullets to see if that would help I got very large standard deviations and equally poor accuracy; I decided it wasn�t worth my effort. My Encore in .454 performed about as expected (370gr @ 1675fps), but the best accuracy I could get was 1.5� at 50yds. I guess that isn�t horrible, but it surely is disappointing from a single shot; and most of the groups were far worse. It shot 12-18� high at 25 yards, the trigger was heavy, the wood forend split under recoil, the scope base failed, and with the factory wood grips the recoil was pretty unpleasant. And it was only � lb lighter than the .500. Not terribly impressive, so I traded it.

I don�t have extensive experience hunting large dangerous game, but I have read much of the literature on the subject. Like you, I tend pretty strongly toward the heavy bullet/deep penetration school of thought for dangerous game hunting. I agree, penetration, frontal area and bullet weight are key; however, the enormous power of the .500 has some advantages. Penetration is determined by sectional density, bullet design and construction, and velocity. Excessive velocity can, in some cases, have a detrimental effect on penetration, all other things equal. But you can change certain variables to take advantage of the increased velocity (and consequently energy) of the .500. For example, change the nose shape and get equal penetration with greater shock. Even Veral Smith in his book recognizes the value in many cases of higher velocity with a large meplat for increased shock. If I can keep penetration equal, and get more shock, why wouldn�t I? Or bump up the bullet weight at the same velocity and get even deeper penetration. The .500 gives you options in ways less powerful cartridges can�t.

Fundamentally I don�t consider single-shot handguns like the Encore to be direct competition for a revolver. The 5 shots from the S&W are advantageous for one reason: I could blow the shot. Even with a heavy recoiling gun like the .500, a second shot is much quicker than any single shot. I consider that a significant advantage under most circumstances. The fact that the .500 can deliver this much power, with good accuracy, and tolerable recoil, is very appealing.

I�ve never read reports of professional hunters questioning the power of the .458 Lott. I suppose anything short of a .50BMG or a 20mm cannon could fail on dangerous game but I think I�d feel perfectly safe with it, assuming I had good bullets. I�d feel comfortable in most cases with a .45/70 or a .450 Marlin lever action, and the .500 S&W can equal or nearly equal either of those. I think most experts I�ve read would say that both of those cartridges exceed the dangerous game taking ability of a .44 Magnum, or .480 Ruger, or .454 Casull, or I imagine a .50AE Encore. Consequently, so does the .500 S&W.

What�s the minimum level of power necessary to be effective on dangerous game? I think that�s difficult to determine and is unfortunately very anecdotal. A 300gr .44 at 1200fps? A 400gr .480 at 1200? Or would a 255gr .45 Colt at 950fps suffice? Establishing the ideal velocity is pretty arbitrary, and it�s virtually impossible to quantify. It seems logical to me that, if I can vary bullet design, weight, and construction, more power would always be an advantage. That is, if you can shoot it well.

I know three people who own .500s, and all of them have had very good accuracy. Obviously you and your clients haven�t been as successful, although I must say that testing one bullet using one powder with five charge weights may not be enough to validate a gun�s accuracy. The results I�ve seen in the gun rags and online have been pretty good, but frankly I�m not sure how to resolve the issue of production handgun variability, and whose results are closer to what you can expect. What I need is a job where I can afford to buy 50 of the same model and test them all. :-))

I�ve never fired a BFR�what do you think of them? They�ve always looked a little clunky to me.

Thanks for the welcome to the board.

CorrectiveAction,

Finally, there is another long winded gun nut on this sight. I'm sure others get sick of reading my long posts but yours was full of useful information, where to start.

My comments about people not having to be honest on the web was not directed directly at LilJohn though it may have read that way, just read to many posts from self proclaimed experts and am a little cautious until I get to know a persons background. To that extend I will apologize to LilJohn.

Still to be fair, a 440 gr bullet at "Nearly" 1700 fps is quite a bit different then a 450 gr bullet at +1800 fps. Still, he could have a fast revolver. I still stand by the fact that I was seeing primer pockets open a little at the 1650 fps level.

I am very sure some S&W 500's are shooters, I have just witnessed this one handgun and heard from several others that they are not extremely accurate on average.

When I purchased my 480 Ruger in teh SRH, I started with the 325 gr bullets from Speer and Hornady and was getting groups in the 3-4" range at only 25 yards. I was getting right around 1500 fps with top loads using LilGun but accuracy sucked to be blunt.

I moved up to the 400 gr Speer and groups when to 1.5" at 25 yards with velocities a bit over 1200 fps again using H-LilGun.

I had some CPB that I had ordered in for a customer to use in his 475 Line. in the 425 gr weight so I decided to order another box and give them a try. With a top load of LilGun, the 480 drives these to 1200 fps and will punch 1.5" groups at 50 yards with open sights. I have been able to harvest several head of big game with this load and it has always impressed me with its terminal effects on game.

One would never believe a bullet going only 1200 fps would penetrate as well as it does, but I would never think twice about dropping the hammer on anything in north America and I know full well I would never recover a bullet.

My wife baught me a 12" 454 Encore barrel and like you, I never got anywhere near the accuracy I wanted. With traditional 454 bullet weights, I was getting very good velocities but groups were running 4-5" at 50 yards with a Burris 1.5-4x scope.

I tried a box of 395 gr CPB loaded to 1600 fps and the groups went to solid 1" groups at 50 yards.

My other Encore big bore is a custom 50 A.E. in a 15" barrel. For years I used the Speer 325 gr Uni-Core HP loaded to an honest 1950 fps. This load would punch one jagged hole at 50 yards with another Burris 1.5-4x and at 100 yards it would hold sub 2" groups.

My first record book exotic ram fell to this handgun at a measured 134 yards with the ram facing directly toward me. I have always wanted a heavier game bullet for this barrel and when CPB came out with the 440 gr bullet for the 500 S&W I orders several boxes.

Loaded to 1550 fps using H-110, I get the same accuracy and much better performance on game then the 325 pill.

Still I know full well thta the higher sectional density 454 bullet would far out penetrate the 440 gr .500" bullet. In fact, I would dare to say tht the 395 loaded to 1600 fps would out penetrate even +1700 fps loads with the 440 gr out of the 500.

This is one weakness of the 500, the diameter is so large that you need extremely heavy bullet to get the S.D. of the smaller cailber 45's and 475's. This is why the 475 Line took off and the 500 Line is rarely seen, not that it is not a good round. For their uses, the 475 just out penetrates the 500 Line because of S.D.

I experienced most of what you did with your Encore but ebign a smith by trade, I quickly bedded the forend and the grip for added strength along with lightening the trigger to a very nice 2 3/4 lbs.

My iron sights also printed very high so I mounted the burris an from then on never had a problem.

I do not have experience hunting dangerous game either but if I were intentionaly hunting heavy dangerous game with a handgun, I would still invest in a 475 Line over the 500. Just a much better round I feel for this type of hunting. Again personal opinion.

Again, I do not have the S.D. numbers for the different rounds but comparing a 400 gr .452" bullet, a 440 gr .475" and a 450 gr .500" bullet, I know full well which one will penetrate the deepest. I would like to know ehat it would take in bullet weight to provide equal S.D. for the 45 and 475 bullets.

I do not see the revolver and Encore as equals either. In my mind, for a dedicated big bore, thin skinned big game handgun, I feel the Encore has no peer in the revolver world as far as power and accuracy goes. If the handgun is used for protection then of course the revolver would be better but in this usage, I see the huge 500 as being practically useless. For this I would select my lightened Ruger BH 4 5/8" in 45 Colt shooting the 360 gr CPB at 1250 fps. It is light enough to carry on the hip all day, has plenty of penetration for any point blank need and hits with good power.

The 500 is not practical to carry in an accessable holster in such a manor.

For a dedicated hunting revolver, the areas I hunt limit your shot opportunities to one and only one because of cover. Weither you have five more shots or four, it really does not matter where I hunt, you will not have time for even that second shot. For that reason, I would prefer using a handgun that is as accurate as possible. It does not matter if its a revolver or not, hitting the vitals with an adiquate load is all I care about. I feel just as well armed with my 44 Mag revolver as I do with my Encore in 50 A.E. in the heavy cover in Central Montana.

Everyone has their own limits for what they would consider minimum for use on dangerous game. Then of course what is dangerous game. You hit a 300 lb wild bore wrong and it can get very dangerous, still for this any bullet over 300 grains and moving at least 1000 fps will penetrate fine.

For bears here in Montana which can range from a 100 lb black to a 700 lb grizzly, I again carry my 45 Colt loaded with 360 gr CPB loaded to a bit over 1200 fps. I know they have plenty of penetration and I can also shoot it fast and accurate if needed, plus again I can carry it all day.

For African, Asian or Alaskan dangerous game, I would still choose the 475 Line with a 440 gr bullet loaded to 1400 fps. Which would be a back up to my 458 Lott if I were intentionally going after real big dangerous game.

My comments about the 458 Lott are based on PH in Africa that were asked about stopping rounds. That is rounds used after a hunt as gone very wrong and lives are on the line. Most state any 458 roudns as minimum with the 475 rifle rounds being much better and the 500 and up rifles being even better.

For initial shots on calm game, the 458 Lott is one of the best for African heavy game.

I agree that a select number of revolvers is not a true testiment of a revolvers abilty on average, again, I was just reporting to my fellow posters what this oen revolver did while testing adn I stated that very clearly.

Thanks for the response and good natured debate.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Fiftydriver,

You make some very good points. The usefulness of a given handgun for hunting is heavily dependent on your individual circumstances: is it for backup protection, are you likely to require follow-up shots, etc etc. No doubt, the .500, at least with the 8� barrel, is not a very good packing/backup gun because it�s so large and heavy. I think it could be usable in the 4� model, although still pretty large.

I may have given up on the .480 & Encore too quickly. I reviewed my records (BTW, I exaggerated on the accuracy of the .500 � the worst groups were just over 3� @ 50yds, not 2.5�.) and there were a few decent groups with both. I actually had a load with the .480 using the 390gr CPB bullet at 1400fps (crimped in second lube groove) that was 2.2� @ 75yds. But this load was too hot, and I tried it again later and the accuracy declined, so I got frustrated and gave up.

I travel for my job now so my time at home is pretty valuable. Whereas ten years ago fixing an accuracy problem with a new gun might�ve been fun, now it�s just tedious, so I�m looking for something that works easily right out of the box.

You mention that the 440gr bullet in your .50AE was much more effective on game than the 325gr�is that with any size animal? I�m curious to hear what your results were on smaller game, as I would�ve guessed the 325gr would�ve been pretty good. I might avoid light bullets altogether in my .500 if the results are poor.

I think a Blackhawk in .45 Colt is pretty hard to beat as an all-day carry gun. I want to pick up a stainless model myself. How�s the recoil? My .41 Mag Blackhawk is stiff with 265gr bullets, so I imagine with 360gr bullets it�d be pretty heavy.

As soon as I get my webpage up and running, I�m going to post pics of the damaged scope base and rings from my Encore. I�d be interested in any analysis from you and other members on why it happened.

My earlier post may�ve been too harsh�my apologies if any offense was taken.

Interesting, my experience with the SRH 480's accuracy has been the complete opposite, it has been the most accurate revovler I've ever fired. I've only shot cast bullets through it, but every one has been capable of a 5 shot 1" group at 50 yds. Bullets tested were 310 gr, 320 gr, 335 gr, 390 gr, 400 gr (2 dif molds) 435 gr and 460 gr. I did find that light bullets didn't seem to like being pushed fast, but ~10 gr unique will drive the 310-330 to ~1000 fps and group tight. The nominal 400 gr bullets like 21 gr of H-110 or Lil-gun for 1200 fps, and the 460 really seems just a tad too heavy, so I just might cut the mold down to drop around 420 gr.

I'm sure there are those that are as fond of their 500's as I am of my 480. I personally couldn't see packing a bigger gun as much as I carry my 480, but everyone hunts and uses their guns differently.

CorrectiveAction,

Since I have started up my gunsmithing shop a while back, my personal time with my handguns and rifles has been cut back dramatically but fortunately, I still am able to take a weekend off and just shoot and develope loads at will.

I have taken several head of game with the 50 A.E. using both the 325 gr HP and the 440 gr CPB. Here are what I have witnessed from each.

I will say that I was totally impressed with the penetration of the 325 gr hp with the velocities it was fired at. Factory loaded 50 A.E. rounds trip the chrony at 1545 fps out of the 15" Encore so my handloads are a solid 400 fps over that.

There is no doubt, my handloads were far above what I would ever try in a revolver or semi-auto for the 50 A.E. but in the Encore which will handle 60,000 psi, I have never had a problem as brass has not failed me yet, in fact I am still using my original batch with more then 10 firings on them and the primer pockets are still going strong.

That said, the on game performance with the 325 gr load on game up to the size of 300 lb deer has always been excellent with full penetration. Let me also say that I never intentionally tried to center a shoulder knuckle with the 325 gr hp because I knew I was pushing the bullet to its limits and had no desire to see if a shoulder would stop this bullet at these high velocities.

THe most dramatic example of penetration I have had with the 325 gr hp was with the ram I mentioned in the previous post. The shot was at 134 yards with the ram facing directly toward me, not my favorite shot but we had stalked the group of sheep for several hours and this was the only shot the ram presented.

The bullet centered the chest of the ram and passed through the chest cavity, liver, pauch and then exited the rear right ham of the ram. This was not a heavy animal, in the 100 lb range but I was still impressed with the penetration.

Expansion of the 325 gr on game is pretty impressive as well. On game such as deer and down, this may be the best bullet on the market, but not at the top velocities that the 500 could produce.

Wound cavity gets very large, very quickly, resembling most high velocity rifle rounds, but tapers very quickly and then is relatively small for a .500" round.

The 440 gr bullet just drills its big hole though everything. I hold for the shoulder knuckle with this bullet with no fears of ever having it fail and I know I will never find a fired bullet in game that I will be hunting.

One thing I prefer with the 440 gr bullet is that recoil, while heavier, is slower and much less of a slap inthe web of my hand. THe fast loads with the 325 gr bullet at +1900 fps were very unpleasant to shoot, very near painful with cold hands while hunting.

The 440 gr load at a bit over 1500 fps are much easier on the hands while hunting.

While I have the Stainless 4 5/8" Blackhawk in 45 Colt, I would prefer the Bisley style grip for better recoil control. I would compare the recoil of my 360 gr load to that of a 454 in the SRH. Not punishing but still quite a handful. It is enough that I have to shoot the revolver at least a couple times a month through the year to stay accustomed to its recoil, something very common to most big bore revolvers.

The first thing I did after shooting a cylinder full of hot 300 gr loads in my colt was to get a Pach. grip. The small wood panels on the BH flat out hurt my hand. The rubber grips are much better in my mind, even though you need to wash the skid marks off the palm of your hand after each range session.

Most of the scope and base damage I have had come into the shop for repair was caused by lossening of the base or ring screws. Its hard to tell without seeing it. I use only Burris bases and Burris Signature rings in my handcannon mounting systems. I do not use any thread locker as I have found that if the screws and thread ways are cleaned and dried, there is no need for locker. I especially do not use locker onthe base screws. Oil free and dry are a combination for solid scopes.

The signature rings will handle any recoil I have tested them with including my Encore 12" in 454 and my 15" Encore in 50 A.E.

I also use them on my XP-100s, bascially I use them on everything I build and shoot. Best mounting system I have ever used for the money and never leave a mark on scope tubes yet holds them more securely then any steel ring will.

Like I said, sometimes my questions may sound aggessive to another poster when in fact I just want to learn more about the person.

I like a spirited debate, both side learn alot if they listen and I know full well I still have alot to learn from others like you and even LilJohn.

If someone is spirited about their opinion, it either means they have tested and know for a fact that what they are saying is honest and true or they have read it and still believe it to be true without any factual base.

To be honest, both are good things, just shows they believe in that they are saying. Still I like to get some information from posters just to get to know them more and more as we chat.

It is clear you know what you are talking about and I enjoy chatting with you. Its good to have another experienced handgunner on the board. There are many very experienced handgunners here and I feel they are the elite of shooters and hunters, this is why I became a handgun hunter almost exclusively. Its a very difficult sport, and I respect anyone even willing to give it a try.

Good Shooting!!!

50

CorrectiveAction,
I have shot my 500S&W using Lil'gun powder at 50 yds with full house loads that grouped 1.5" FACT. I will be trying
some loads at 100 yds. to see how they group.

jro,

What velocity are you getting with Lil'Gun?

CorrectiveAction,
I get 2037 fps with the 270gr bullets,2002 fps with the 320gr bullets, 1912 fps with the 350gr bullets, and 1725 fps with the 400gr bullets.All these with Lil'gun powder. It is the best powder that has happened to the 500 in my opinion.

JRO, what is your load for the 350's with Lil'gun. Is that the 350 Sierra's? Also, is that out of a Model 500 or something else?

Kingfisher, Hodgdon's loads for the 350 Serria bullet for the S&W 500 is Starting load: with LIL'GUN 35 gr. Maximum load 42 gr. which is my load.

Thanks JRO. I had their data, which is what I used to work up the load for the Sierra's in mine, I was mainly curious if you were using a Model 500 and if so is it the PC model or the standard model etc.

Regards,
Tom

Thats out of the model 500 S&W. 8 3/8" barrel. Standard model.