The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting 44 mag bulletGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 44 mag bullet | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
What 44 rem mag bullet for bear defense when fishing in Alaska. I've loaded hornady 300 grain XTP bullets for my 7.5 inch Taurus, but is that a decent bullet? It is very inexpensive compared to the nosler partition and barnes bullets. Just wondering if I should load something else. Just curious. Thanks. | ||
|
| one of us |
Yes, the 300 gr is a good bullet. Hard cast WLN or WFN is a little better. It is hard to get to be a good shot when bullets cost a lot. Cast shooters shoot 100 times more and get good. Most give rifle shooters a run for the money. | |||
|
| One of Us |
What does WLN and WFN stand for? Are these bullets available for purchase? | |||
|
| Moderator |
WLN = Wide Long Nose WFN = Wide Flat Nose or Won't Fly Nowhere Look at the Cast Performance Bullet website If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
|
one of us |
The guy I was hunting with a couple years ago put a 300 grain xtp through the chest and out the spine of a 450 pound black bear that was 6 feet 9 inches nose to tail. It dropped like a sack of rocks. Made me a believer. | |||
|
Moderator |
Here goes my broken record response: I have not hunted bear (okay, actually in Bosnia they were on the menu, but we didn't get any and got wild boar instead), but, I personally would want a bullet that I know will penetrate end to end on even the biggest critter, so I would opt for a heavy (300 + grain), flat-nosed hardcast bullet.......JMHO "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
The 300 XTP is a good bullet but they only come 50 to a box. MS, ask Marko if WFN means won't fly anywhere!  Thats the boolit we shoot little targets at 200 yd's with. Like empty spray paint cans! | |||
|
| Moderator |
In the case of bfrshooter's bullet, WFN stands for Will Fly Nicely......  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| one of us |
When in BIG bear country I carry heavy cast bullets in my 4" 44. I have used Garretts, and Federal 300gr Cast Core. I have also recently bought some Buffalo Bore heavy cast loads as well as their 255gr Keith lower recoil loads. I carry these same loads and the 270 Speer whem balck bear and pig hunting. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| Moderator |
bfr, You know I'm not talking about those short distances you shoot. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
|
| one of us |
make mine an lfn. There easier to find accurate loads for fly better. penetrate better and ive yet to see where a wfn drops game any faster then an lfn
| |||
|
one of us |
Shoot anything you want and when you get up here buy a box of BB 340 at 1400FPS load.  At the distance at which you would have to shoot a Bear in self defence the difference in point of impact will be negligable from any other loads.-------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
|
| One of Us |
You'll have a lot more trouble from the Alaskan F&G people for shooting an out-of-season brown bear, unlicensed, than you will from the 300 gr. XTP. Yeah, you can explain it, but it will still be a pain in the rump. Having said that the XTP will work, I'd probably use a 300+ gr. WFN if I had a choice, because it's the brownies that might give you a concern, not the blackies. My bear guns are .475L's, and I use the 400 gr. Magnum XTP... dead bears, fast. | |||
|
| one of us |
Lloyd, true, I don't see any difference once a meplat is optimum and the WLN will do it. I just started to play with a larger meplat to see if it was true that they didn't fly or penetrate as well. Both ideas are wrong and they are as easy to get accurate as the WLN. I kept reading stuff over and over about how bad they are. Now is is Whitworth's turn. He has the pictures of the WFN penetration tests where one went through 36" of wet phone books and newspaper and stuck full depth in a piece of seasoned firewood. Marko, post some pictures, PLEASE! I love to disprove things all the time. I am the only one to figure out how to tune a compound bow to shoot any broadhead. I sent it to all the rags and a broadhead company. None would publish it. Time went by and all of a sudden Easton is using my method. They told me they worked it out and I can't prove otherwise. Anyway, it is said the broadhead has to be in perfect alignment and special spinning jigs are sold for the purpose. I took an insert and turned it small so when I installed the head, I could push it sideways until it was pointing south before the glue cooled. I shot it into a 1" piece of paper at 20 yd's about 50 times. If the bow is in perfect tune for the arrow, nothing else matters. The revolver is the same. Tune and fit and the nose does not matter. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Actually, for lack of a better term, bfrshooter's bullet is a WFN -- almost. According to Veral Smith's designs, a true WFN has an 82% meplat (I don't recall exactly the percentage of nose to caliber), but it makes for a fairly heavy bullet in the nose, probably accounting for the legendray long distance innaccuracy. An LFN on the other hand, has a meplat of 76% -- if I can recall correctly. Why do I bring this up? Because bfrshooter's bullet lands right in the middle of those two percentages -- actually leaning more towards the WFN at about 80%. And it flies very nicely....... Sorry for the thread hijacking.......maybe we should call it an AWFN -- Almost Wide Flat Nose..... Oh, and it penetrates like there's no tomorrow!I will post results of the penetration test today -- I promise! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
one of us |
300 gr. hard cast bullet. Montana Bullet Works has some great bullet at a great price. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
|
| Moderator |
I just came from their site (www.montanabulletworks.com) and they certainly are priced right. Have you checked the hardness of their bullets? Just curious....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
He has the hardness listed on is web site, I think most are 22 BHN for the handgun bullets. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
|
| Moderator |
I didn't see it, probably just overlooked it, but 22 BHN is just about perfect........ "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
Whitworth, when you look at the weight column it also gives the (BHN) in the 3rd column. Caliber Mould Make (Number) Weight (BHN) Diameter Range Bullet Style (Alloy) Nose to Crimp Groove Length (Metplat) Price/100 (Lubed/sized) Price/500 (Lubed/sized) If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
|
| Moderator |
Yeah, I overlooked it......thanks for pointing it out. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
notice i didnt say they wouldnt fly at long range i said its alot easier to do with a lfn. I know youve had luck with wfns and i also would have to guess it took quite a bit of experimenting to find the right load. Ive yet to find a lfn that didnt shoot well at long range and my point is why even fool with a wfn? An lfn is just a better bullet design and ive yet to see an animal hit by one properly that didnt die in short order.
| |||
|
| Moderator |
Lloyd, the bullet is not a true WFN and more of a cross betwee a WFN and an LFN. I call it the AWFN -- Almost a Wide Flat Nose....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| Moderator |
What ever you call it, the bullet seems to be working well for the both of you. Can't argue (or at least we won't) with good results. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Isn't arguing what we do over here?  Just kidding!!  It does work like a charm. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, I don't know how much less an 80% meplat is from a WFN. They look the same as the LBT WFN boolits to me. If we are talking 1 or 2% what does it matter? Any larger and we will be at a full wad cutter. Anyway Lloyd, they are EASY to work loads with. About 10 time easier then a Keith boolit. The Keith has to be PERFECT for the gun and if one doesn't shoot, it never will no matter what you do. Finding an accurate load for the WFN is the same as finding one for the WLN. One quick shooting session, no more then 3 or 4 different loads. The one I made for the 45-70 recently will do an inch at 100 yd's. Both it and the .475 boolit are PB too, no gas checks. Lay out 3 boolits for me, a WLN, WFN and a Keith. The Keith will be tossed in a drawer unless it fits the gun to perfection. I still will not be happy with it. It is good enough for hunting but not to my standards for accuracy. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Actually there's a fine line between what is enough of a percentage and what is too much, and your bullet pretty much nailed it as it is very stable at distance and it penetrates REALLY well. When asked about meplat sizes for WFNs versus LFNs on Graybeard Outdoors website, Veral Smith said this: "Understand that both nose shapes are available in about any caliber one wants to order, same as all the LBT profiles, so meplate diameter will change with caliber. For the WFN, and WLN, meplat diameter is .090 smaller than the diameter ordered. For the LFN, and LCFN, meplat diameter is .120 smaller than diameter ordered. -- The WLN wears a longer ogive length than the WFN, ditto the LCFN compared to the LFN.." It is possible to go just a little too far with the meplat size and changing the entire balance of the bullet........ "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
I agree with you on one thing. I love kieths and swcs. I guess its an old school thing but they can be a son of a bitch to get to shoot and even to fly. There are just to many mold makers that think they have a better idea and change something that works. Take a good swc design and change one little thing so small that you cant hardly tell it with your eyes and it majically becomes a dud. Ive got more dud swc molds then all the rest of the duds put together. But i still go into the hunting woods about 90 percent of the time with a swc loaded in my ammo. I dont have any better excuse then ammo that is loaded with swcs looks like handgun ammo ought to look.
| |||
|
| one of us |
I too love the look of a loaded Keith. But once in the chamber I can't see it! | |||
|
one of us |
I've used both the WFN and WLN and had absolutely no problems with accuracy or performamce with either. But then again, I seldom shoot targets past 200 yards (most within 150) and rarely take game at anything over 100 yards with my .44 Magnums. And in .44 caliber, I've never recovered a WFN or WLN from game to be able to compare them as they always shoot clean through. In a good (scoped) revolver, either will give 2" or better groups at 100 yards. That's more than ample for my needs. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
|
| one of us |
I have to look at some LBT pictures. I don't know if there is a difference in nose length or shape. Seems to me that there is one called the LFN, one called a WFN and the WLN. I have not been to the site for a long time. I suppose mine might be considered the LFN. When I was making the cherry, I just cut and filed the nose until it looked good. Anyway it is only 2% smaller then a WFN. I never use all the formulas when making a boolit mold, I suck at math. I just draw one up with paper and pencil, then try to match it with a cherry. I feel the shape of the ogive is important for good steerage through the forcing cone. My .44 boolit was made with a long nose as close to my 11* forcing cone as I could get. Some would say the nose is too long and it does not have enough rear weight. It has shot 1", 1-1/4" at 100 yd's and 3 in 1-5/16" at 200 yd's. I really don't know what the hell I am doing most of the time because I just go by feel and how the boolit looks. Please don't pile any math on me because then my boolits might find out that they should not shoot. | |||
|
| one of us |
bfrshooter- Your bullet design looks to be an excellent one. But I'd bet the critters in your area don't think so... Personally, I've never been sold on the Keith design. Yes, it works OK, but there are others -- as you well know -- that are superior in performance. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
|
| one of us |
Thats for sure! My only requirement is accuracy with a decent meplat and just enough hardness for complete penetration. I can't say any boolit is better then another as long as the meplat is good and the boolit shoots good. Everyone likes something different but I never seen a deer complain! | |||
|
| Moderator |
Deer can't complain when they're dead......(Dead deer tell no tales..... ).That bullet falls right between the LFN and the WFN with regards to meplat size........ "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia