I'd like to get more involved with handgun hunting for deer and elk. I have a pair of 6" Smiths, one an older M29 the other a Performance Center RSR Light Hunter. The PC gun is a great one for deer; good sights, endurance package, ball detent lock up, very accurate and reasonably light.

I am not a fan of the .454's, .480's or bigger,IMHO TOO much recoil wise, NO fun to shoot. So thought about a FA in .45 Colt. The five shot cylinder would allow decent enough loads that it should be fine for elk.

Anyone have any input regarding the FA's? I've only shot a pair of them, both in .454 and scoped.

Anyone have the V notch sight with bead front? How does it work compared to the std sights. Any FA input appreciated.

FN in MT

Frank,

Have you ever shot a 480? The recoil isn't in the same class as the 454, especially if you stick with a moderately heavy cast bullet 400 gr, at a moderate velocity, 1200 fps. To me, it is the most powerful hunting handgun round that doesn't generate brutal recoil.

Anyhow, I haven't had a chance to shoot a mdl 97, but have shot many mdl 83's in 454 and 475. Freedom makes an outstanding gun, certainly the finest production revolver out there, and equal or better than many of the custom Rugers. Personally I'd lean towards a mdl 83 w/ 6" barrel w/ the 45 colt cylinder. A bit more heft in a hunting gun isn't a bad thing.

I haven't had a chance to shoot the v notch w/ front bead, but from what I've read, it isn't as accurate as a traditional patridge sight.

Go with the Mod 83 and get a 45 Colt cylinder. I don't believe the Mod 97 is setup to handle the heavy duty 45 colt loads.

I've NOT shot any of the .475/.480's but I'm set on the .45 colt as....get ready for THIS rationalization for new handgun ownership......... As I have a really nice NEI Keith style mold that throws a sweet looking 275 grain slug. Plus I'm set up for .45 colt on both the Dillon and with Redding dies on the single stage press.

My FA literature is from 2000 and the brochure is heavy on nice photos but light on actual information. Noo weights listed between the two models.

I had thought of the 97 as I felt with a 6" barrel it would be a nice package. I have NO idea the weight/balance differences between the two frame sizes.

I'd prefer a 6" bbl but would take a 7 1/2" if I had to. Still in the investigation stages on this project.

FN in MT

Post deleted by Frank Nowakowski

Frank,

A good mold is certainly a fine justification for a new gun, been there done that, and there is nothing wrong with the 45 colt as a hunting round.

The finest revolver I've ever shot in terms of how it fit me, how it balanced and the construction of the gun was a special run mdl 83 that a local shop comissioned from FA as a run of 25. It was called the Alaskan Master Guide Series. A 5 1/2" 454 w/ laminated grips that were roundbutted. As far as weight, that 454 weighs the same as my 7 1/2" SRH 480. The loads I shot were in the heavy 45 colt realm, 340 gr @ 1250 fps. As I recall I shot a 1" 25 yd group, which is as good as I can shoot with irons.

The model 97 is a smaller gun, and even though it is a 5 shot, it's power level is the same as the Ruger blackhawk/bisely factroy 6 shooters. If you were looking for a compact 4 3/4" barreled gun, it would get my nod. I believe you are also limited in the length of bullet that the cylinder will accept.

If I were personally to have FA build me a gun, and someday I will, I'd go for the model 83 w/ a 6" octagon barrel, black micarta grips, round butted and mine would be chambered in the 480, as I feel it is the best revolver cartridge for use in reasonably sized guns w/o generating violent recoil. I can't say that for all hunting situations the 480 is justified, but to me, I consider the bottom rung of what I'd confidanly use against a moose. While many single action revolver rounds toute the Ruger Bisley grip as the best, most noteably Ross Seyfried, I personally find the Model 83 FA is better in my hands. I've shot guns with both bisley and mdl 83's in factory configuration, and roundbutted, and the roundbutted mdl 83 is best for me in a single action.

One last comment, folks like to bash Lee molds, but their bullet designs have always shot well for me. I have one of their 300 gr rf gc molds that was modified as a plainbase that drops around 280 gr. The origal cavity will produce an approximately 310 gr wheel weight bullet. For less than $20, you can't go wrong.

Paul,

Lot's of good advice and information; appreciate it.

Headed to work so I'll get back to you on this. Read a nice thread over on Sixgunner ref the .45 colt.

If the mid frame model is only to Ruger strength as well as limiting me in bullet length ,I may as well go for the whole enchilada and go to the M83. Like I stated, this is still in the planning mode.

DID find two nearby FA Dealers in MT too, so maybe I'll get lucky and find what I want. Though elk season is 6 months away.

FN in MT

Frank save yourself some cash, buy a Ruger, I have one in 45 Colt. I also own a FA in same caliber. The Ruger with a 5.5" barrel shoots better and handles all my reloads just as easily as the FA.
I load a potent dose of H110 (32.5 gr)and a 300 gr GC cast that I pour myself. With it I HAVE killed elk,blk bear,and moose, out to 100 yds.
The recoil is tolerable but not 22 LR mild. I replaced the stock grips with an oversized set.

Frank, you mentioned that the literature didn't provide much in specs...I had the same feeling a while back and requested weight from FA through email. Here's what they had to say:

Weight of a 454 4.75" is 48.3 oz.
Weight of a 45C 4.25" s 35.5 oz

Since the 45C is sold std in the 4.25" length that is the only weights I
have.

Freedom Arms

********************

I've been in the same quandary as you about some pistol purchases and I find my interest in a FA to be completely from a "fun" perspective and the 45Colt just seems to fit into the fun catagory moreso than the 454's etc.

Good luck,

Reed

As has been suggested, the 97 won't tkae the loads the 83 will. If I wanted a real hunting gun, I'd get the 83.

The 97 draws rave reviews from all the sixgunner folks, but they do hold the loads to the moe traditional levels.

A call to the factory will probably elicit the same info.

I'm not much into Rugers. And the money factor doesn't bother me. You get what you pay for. All the FA's I've ever shot or handled impressed me far more than ANY Ruger I've ever come in contact with.



I'm leaning towards the 83 I guess as it apparently will hold up better to the heavier loads. With so many .454's out there vs Colts....What about just buying a .454 and loading it down a bit?? Similar to the .44 Spcl/.44 Mag??



Too big a case?? Am I barking up the wrong tree here trying to download??



Reed,

Are the weights you listed for the M97??



FN in MT

Frank,

I assume they are but I had to dig for that message and don't have 100% confidence that they are so I encourage you to verify. I suspect that was the gist of my original question as I had basically the same issues you did and emailed FA. It sure seems reasonable that they are given the previous remarks about strength.

Sorry I don't have the definitive answer.

Reed

Frank the denero doesn't bother me much either, regardless of your "lack of use for Rugers" that does not make them any less a good sidearm.
I own wheelguns from $200 to $3800 custom jobs. At last count I believe it was 27 I currently own and compete with. Not to mention the loaners I have sent to me for competion.
The fact remains Sturm Ruger still produces one of the finest and strongest pistols around.
Only a fool allows their ego to rule their mouth.

Ballbuster,

The thread is regarding FREEDOM ARMS pistols. I appreciated your input but the fact still remains we all have likes and dislikes. I have never done very well with Ruger pistols. Their DA's do not appeal to me in any way, I'm a dyed in the wool S&W and Colt man. I have owned very few SAA types over the years and most of those have been Colts with a few dissapointing Rugers thrown in. The two Ruger BH's I had both had issues. So I don't care for them.

I'm sorry if my remark regarding the cost of the FA's vs the Rugers was taken the wrong way. That was not my intention.

Must admit though that your remark; "Only a fool allows their ego to rule their mouth", did annoy me. Uncalled for in my opinion. My original thread was regarding FA's. You interjected Rugers and I politely mentioned I didn't care for them. Should have been end of story. I never mentioned or asked for any Ruger information.

I've been coming to this Forum for many years, one of the first members. I have always tried to be two things; informative if I have knowledge or information, and polite.

FN in MT

Frank,

There is nothing wrong with laoding the .454 down a bit. Not every round I shoot from mine are full bore barn burners. As suggested, you can certainly have a .45 Colt cylinder made for a FA. I have thought about doing this, but just never done it. I am of the same opinion of Ruger DAs as you are. I have many Ruger SAs and they all shoot well for me, but they are just not the firearm a FA is.

For your hunting purposes, unless you want to scope it a 6 or 7.5" barrel length will serve the purpose very well. I took an elk with my 6" barreled FA in .475 Linebaugh with no problem. Once you get a 260-300 grain hard cast bullet going around 1200 fps, penetration seems to be quite adequate.

I have a FA in .454 with a 7.5" barrel and it works well on deer. Also worked very well for me in Africa on a Gemsbok.

Hope this helps.

Frank,

I'd actually ment to add that you might just want to get a 454, and just run it at heavy 45 colt levels. Those were the loads I was shooting out of my buddies gun, and they were great. That is one thing I like about powerful pistols and rifles, you don't have to run them at full throttle to make them effective. The 454 case isn't that much bigger than the 45 colt, so you shoould have no problems. It is only if you are looking at milder loads that you'll probably give up some accuracy over the 45 colt. Then again, if you want the ideal cylinder for mild target loads in the mdl 83, get one in 45 acp.

Freedom makes a solid gun. There have been a few that made it out the door that shouldn't but as far as I know, they've stood behind their guns and repaired as needed. Since you have a few dealers near you, you should have the opportunity to look over a few guns before buying.

Frank:You are correct,I am fairly new to this site and as you seem to enjoy making a point that you were around from the near startup,as if that really matters,enjoy yourself.
Myself, I've been around and built wheelguns as well as qualified for an Olympic back in the 60's with them for nearly 60 years.
And I owned/own several FA. Surely enough to tell you this much. You'll need to do a throat job on one if you want to keep them in the X ring in a .45 Colt.
Ps. I've gleened my facts from actual hands on, not web sites! BB

Frank,

Go for it. I have the M97 in .45Colt with 5.5 inch barrel.

If you have specific questions, let me know.

J Scott

Gentleman,

Thanks for the input. I may just find a M83 in .454 and give it a try. I just missed a M97 in .45 Colt, 7 1/2" gun, would have been fine for my purposes.

I feel that a 275-300 grain LBT or good Keith style SWC at 1200 fps or so should do the job for me pretty well. I took a raghorn bull two years ago with my 6" M29 and a 255 gr LBT at 1300 fps. Very impressive performance. I just don't feel with 50-75 yd shots as my max that I "need" all the poop from full house .454's.

Like I mentioned I have two good Shows the next two weekends so I'll see what I can come up with.

FN in MT

Ballbuster quotes:
And I owned/own several FA. Surely enough to tell you this much. You'll need to do a throat job on one if you want to keep them in the X ring in a .45 Colt.

The fact remains Sturm Ruger still produces one of the finest and strongest pistols around

Ballbuster, are you senile? The Ruger is the one you have to do a throat job on. Ruger- finest and strongest-you gotta be joking.

Frank, No matter which Freedom Arms model you decide on you can be assured you will have one of the finest revolvers made. I prefer the model 83 with the extra .45 cylinder. I rather have the extra power and not need it than the other way around. Here is a picture of my Freedom Arms revolvers.

M16,

WOW!!! What a collection! Your obviously biitten by the FA bug. What calibers?? Any other comments ref the .45 Colt?

J Scott,

I may have some questions, Thanks for the offer. I think I'm pretty set on a .45 Colt. No matter how I think about it I really don't care for the .454 from a few points. First I REALLY don't NEED all that power. And to be very honest as I've grown older I really do not care for all the blast and recoil. No fun at all and IMHO fun is what it's all about. I've killed a few dozen elk and if I have to pass on a shot because I needed .454 power and all I had was +P+ .45 Colt available,,,,,so be it. My elk hunting is 6 miles from home, with a $13 tag. So an elk isn't a life or death thing to me.

I have done pretty well so far with .44 Spcl's/.44 mags on big game and the .45 colt, as loaded in the FA, should be more of the same. Plus, other than my PC Smith 629, more accurate too.

Off to the Missoula Gun show.......FN in MT

Frank, All of them are .454 except the top left one which is in .44 magnum. It is a custom job with octagonal barrel, magnaporting, trigger job, jeweled hammer, etc. The top right one is a 10 inch that I use for hunting whitetail. That one is accurate enough with a solid rest to make a 200 yard shot. I bought the 7.5 inch ones because the price was too good to pass up. They don't get shot a whole bunch. I guess its a case of being too "inbetween." If I was just gonna buy only one it would be a six inch .454 with an extra .45 colt cylinder. I would get the adjustable sights but not the V notch unless it was for protection and close range use. My Thinking is to go with the .454. You can always load it down. But you will have the extra power available if you want it. I just found the one with the extra cylinder the other day. I got it for $1075 tax included. I saw the gun on the shelf and asked the sales clerk if they had the box for it. I was going to buy it anyway as it was a good deal for roughly $1000. He goes no, sorry all it comes with is an extra cylinder that we have in the back. I did a quick draw on my billfold and told him "sir you leave me no choice but to purchase this weapon." I did rip my pants pocket and leather burned my hip with the wallet quickdraw. Bottom line is it doesn't matter if you go Model 97 or 83 you will own the finest production revolver made!

I have no idea of the model number, but I have a 454 with a 51/2 inch barrel that is great on bear. As far as anyone comparing the quality of a Ruger to a F.A. it's like comparing a Ford to a Rolls. The material and the workmanship in the F.A. is exceptional, as well done as any gun around. I load and shoot basically 45 Colt loads out of it, but yhe option is always there to drop in 5 of the bigger ones. My gun has the non adjustable sights, but I have filed the front sight down to where it is very good at any decent hunting range. One feature on the F.A. is that it has a replaceable forcing cone, if you shoot it out {not likely} they can replace it at the factory, Another feature of the gun is the trigger pull, there isn't a nicer S.A. trigger made. My opinion but shared by a bunch of people. Good luck. Bob

M16

I have the big rubber Pachmyer or whatever grips on my gun, and have from the start, Don't you find it a bit difficult shooting full loads with the factory wood grips?

BBeyer, actually I prefer the wood grips. They are less abrasive and allow the revolver to sort of roll in your hand under recoil. The rubber grips really shine during damp or rainy weather.

Saw a few today at the Missoula Gun show. The M97's ARE much smaller than it's big brother. Saw mostly .454's all used and the owners asking NEW prices.
Did find a like new M97 , 7 1/2" gun, .45 Colt, Premier grade, barely used, for $1500. I'm VERY tempted to pull the trigger on that one.
Talked to one of the FA Dealers and he can order me whatever I want, with a 6-8 week delivery. So I may go that route with a .454 M83 Field grade, Six inch, and a grip upgrade from Goodyear Tire & Rubber to the black Micartas. I am going to check if they would just do me a .45 colt instead of a .454 Casull and save myself $270 for a .45 colt cylinder. If not I'll get a .454 and just load it down to the level I want.

Decisions.....Decisions........ FN in MT

M
I would like to be able to put a scope on this thing. They tell me that there is no way it can be done on my gun. I had no control over it, I was given the gun by a bear hunter that we guided for, and that is what it was. The price was right anyway. The price of the shells has certainly come down a lot since I got it though, it's about half of what it was a few years back. Well good luck with yours, and take care. Bob

M16 : Excuse me I so so senile I could not find my way out of the gun safe If you take the time to read what I wrote I said ...one of the finest.. I never said the finest, did I? And I'll stick by my original comment Rugers are one of the finest production revolvers made.
When you do what I do for a living and sell enough guns as well as repair enough guns . You'll soon learn EVERY make of gun soon or later has problems...yep just like a Ford and a Rolls.
I've had FAs on the bench to repair just like I do Rugers, but as far as production gunbs go ( which will never be equal to my customed guns) Ruger does hold it's own against any of the priceier names.
I worked for Dan Wesson for a few years, even shot on their team in several matches. while it my be vouge to look down a nose in so me company at a Dan wesson I can place just as many rounds in the Xring with one as I can a FA. BB

Ballbuster, I am sure you must be aware of the problem with Ruger revolvers in .45 caliber. Yet you say that the Freedom Arms gun needs work before it will shoot. That has not been my experience. I consider them both production revolvers and in that sense the Ruger cannot be compared to the FA. Granted for the money you pay the FA should be the best by a long shot. I own a good number of Ruger revolvers and for the money they are a good value. We can agree that the Dan Wesson was one of the best when it comes to accuracy. I still say though that if you want and can afford the best go with the FA or go custom.

I just wanted to add one comment on the rubber grips on a heavy recoiling single action, they are a big no no! I single action will rotate under recoil no matter how hard you grip it. With rubber grips, they will but some serious rug burn on your palms. Folks have ripped their shooting glooves with the rubber grips.

You want smooth grips, either wood or micarta.

Rubber grips work on DA's, but don't belong on an SA.

Paul,

I would echo your sentiments for repeated shooting even of double action big bore revolvers. I did some rather extensive testing of 44 mag loads a few years ago using a Colt Anaconda with rubber grips and the friction raised a blister surprisingly quickly. The first 100 shots or so were not too bad but somewhere between #100 and #130 or so the blister got started and I shot the last 20 rounds or so with the damned blister...but I wanted to get it finished under the same conditions.

For small volume shooting they may have a place but for high volume I'd prefer wood. I can especially see this with single actions with the caveat that the grip not allow too much banging of the fingers from the trigger guard or hammer.

Reed

Call me a wimp if you will, but along about age 40 I shot something like 300 rounds of heavy loads from a DA .44 (Smith and Wesson) in one afternoon, with not much of a break, except to let the gun cool. This was with Hogue rubber grips installed. Man, my hand hurt the next day! Not blistered, but brusied.

That is something I won't try again. I limit my heavy loads to less than a box of fifty for the most part these days. And I like to break up the strings with something lighter.

One of my Ruger .44's has the Hogue rubber grips on it and I think it really helps. I've never had it blister me with very heavy loads, but I shoot it as described above.

And I use a padded shooting glove at the range. See, I really am a wimp!

I told y'all he was senile

no 32.5 is the drop, and I cut that back from 36.0 (These loads greatly exceed any loads published by reputable sources of loading data and constitute a gross overloading for any .45 Colt regardless of make, model, or alloy being used. The above loads are and should be considered extremely dangerous and outside the realm of prudent reloading of the .45 Colt catridge.) < !--color-->

M16 might be a touch senile,who knows but I still got all 10 fingers! And brother you can bet the caribou bull I smacked in the ribs up in Ak last fall with that load didn't just shake water and walk off also anyone that takes reloading advice off the internet 'cause they're just too damm lazy to work it up themselves is a bit more "touched' than I.BB

PS. my Ruger has over 3500 rounds of that reload thru it, I had the cylinder back to them when I wanted a 45 ACP cylinder made for it ( just forgot to take it out and sent it that way) As with all gun makers the cylinder on return work is ALWAYS stress tested before it can be shipped back due to liability reasons, mine was returned AN (as new) stamped.

like always only shoot what you're comfortable with your accuracy will improve. BB

I do not recommend anyone use anything they are not comfortable with.
That's my load in my gun and my choice. While my 45 Colt cylinder in that particular Ruger is built of an alloy not available to most shooters yet, yes I have noticed some stress to the frame ( and this is exactly why I have this particular sidearm on loan) . That particular model 5.5" 45 Colt is built on a Super Blk Hwk frame. Ruger is presently researching alloys for both frames and cylinders as well as combinations of both. ( not everything is as seems at times)By 2006 you should be able to buy one, in a few trial calibers to start.BB
I won't even hazard a guess as to how many rounds I have put thru my own creations or others suppliers have built for me. But I've worn 3 Dillon's out in the last 15 years! And they are built TOUGH!

Well, I've not shot for "Team Dan Wesson", nor have I worn out three Dillons in the past 15 years. However, I do know a grossly overloaded charge for a .45 Colt when I see it. Even if you are using a five shot cylinder in your Ruger; I am surprised the thing has held together for you Ballbuster. I am glad to see the disclaimer in your post as well. I'd surely hate to see someone put that load together and have the pieces of their revolver traveling faster than the projectile.

I will not get into any further pissing matches but I think it's GROSSLY irresponsible to be posting loading recipes that with conventional equipment would be beyond dangerous. You didn't until several posts later point out that this is apparently an experimental arm made of new alloys. You do realize that the time between postings was plenty for some newby to charge up a load and give it a go because it's "stout, not 22RF, but tolerable, etc."???

Personally I don't believe any of it right now because anybody entrusted with supplying essentially engineering data would never have posted such a loading recipe without a bolded 36-pt font disclaimer. To say nothing of the fact that if you ARE involved in some new arm from a manufacturer I would imagine you had to sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement which, if so, you've just violated.

To me it's this simple, if you really are in possession of some new arm that can withstand this sort of load then you need to worry about what the manufacturer might think of this thread...which is very easily supplied to the company in question. If so, I would suggest you hit the edit button pretty heavily in previous posts. If you are NOT in possession of this sort of arm and are merely "trolling" along through the internet then I would suggest to you that you've opened yourself up to some trouble should anybody be hurt attempting to use such a load. Again, I would suggest heavy use of the edit button.

Hopefully reloaders will be smart enough to use a combination of book data and NOT the suggestions of this guy.

Lastly, wearing out Dillons? Come on, Dillon will replace anything that breaks, for life, and there's certain things on Dillons that simply won't break. Their high level models are essentially commercial reloaders. Once again, I don't believe you.

Piss away if you want but you've already said enough for me to draw my own conclusion and I'm typing to hopefully help others come to the same conclusion.

Reed