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What is your opinion about heavy hollow point (HP) for revolvers? I am talking about 44-325 and 45-360, intended for large frame Ruger revolvers. A number of well known handgun hunters/writers prefer just plain flat point (FP) for deep penetration and exist wound. They mentioned that, as a general rule, most HP-s lack penetration and as a consequence, no exit wound. Making heavy bullet with HP feature, we might have combination that will give us large wound channel and deep penetration, and have exit hole for easier tracking. I tried to make 3D model on computer and here are 44-325 and 45-360 HP bullets;  Since you are bunch of very experienced handgun hunters, I would appreciate your opinion. If there is enough interest, I might start group buy for these. Thanks, Onty. | ||
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Could work well but you may have to experiment with the hardness a bit. Too soft and they over-expand/under-penetrate and too hard they act nearly the same as regular flat-nosed hardcast. I find the medium hard wide metplat ( 15/16 Br ) can both flatten a bit and penetrate given proper impact velocities. | |||
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I just don't find a good, heavy, flat-nosed hardcast to be lacking...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I was thinking of straight WW that is normally about 12 HB. Also, HP is .300 deep, in order to prevent too much expansion and reduce possibility of tip fragmentations. However, I agree with you that experimenting with different alloys and/or hardening process would be necessary to find optimum. | |||
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 Certainly not with that hand-cannon. Idea was to use these in easier packing SBH or Bisley. | |||
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The Lyman cast hollow points I have shot in my .44s in the past seem to have acted more like solids and did not appear to expand based on the wound channels. Entrance and exit wounds and holes in both sides of the hide were the same size. I did hit a rib on the way in and one on the way out on one deer; these were the same size as well. I observed this when using a flat nose cast bullet from a .357 Magnum as well. These were water dropped wheel weights and did not seem soft enough to expand, rather the cavity just collected material as passed through. I observed this performance in some jacketed hollow point bullets I did recover from deer. Personally, when one starts with a bullet that is approaching a half-inch in diameter; I see little, if any need for much expansion. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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If one wants readily expanding heavy wieght bullets, then simply pout the front portion of the cast bullet from pure lead and rear rear portion from WW and water quench from the mold _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I don't hunt with that revolver (I have, but don't make it a habit), but what I said still applies. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I haven't fonud wide meplat hard cast lacking in terminal performance even in 357 YMMV _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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When Speer had their 3/4 jacket JSWCHP I used that for deer .They also had a soft point version .The SWC was 225 gr but the only one I recovered went through almost 30" of deer and opened to .50" .The core IIRC was 3% antimony ! That might give you some thoughts especially that heavy isn't neccesary for penetration and expansion ! | |||
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Those were very good bullets in my experience _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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That would depend on the size of the animal. Deer, aren't particularly hard to punch through. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Lots of good info here. Hollow point bullets are very dependent on hardness/velocity. There's a certain little sweet spot where they can work great or fail totally. A large flatnose just depends on bullet placement because the penetration is going to be there. I'm doing some experimenting with 3 different hollowpoints but like JWP said, the softnose is the foolproof way to get both expansion & penetration. This new Miha 475 HP with the large pins is a very interesting bullet, hope to blood one soon. I cast them 70/30, wheelweights & lead for 1000 fps. Dick | |||
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Google-Lyman Devastator Hollow Points.theres an article by Fryxell on Handloader.com but i cant find anyone whose used them.my thread v.s. | |||
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My State has that same stipulation however,you can get around that without a hp if you use a g/c like I see on your design you are almost there just soften up your alloy and you have and expanding boolit in all the years I have been hunting I have never been asked if I was using expanding boolits ......not to say it can't happen though but it is very unlikely | |||
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Al handgun bullets sold in the United States are consiuderd to be expanding bullet by the ATF.Hard cast bullets are legal in where in US except the Condor zone and that require lead free bullets _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I've had fairly good luck when the bullet isn't quite as heavy, somewhat malleable, and gas checked to be driven quit fast. Thin skinned stuff is still iffy but hogs were opening them up. JOE MACK aka The .41FAN HAVE MORE FUN AND GET THE JOB DONE WITH A .41 I am the punishment of God… If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you. (GENGHIS KHAN) | |||
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I expect they would work great. The hollow point would increase wound channel size, and the mass would guarantee deep penetration. You may have to keep an eye on bullet length, as the HP would make a given weight longer. In an extremely heavy bullet, you could be near the limit of stability in some guns at some velocities. Performance should be much like the 300gr jacketed HP/SP types out there, maybe a little better. You could vary the alloy & temper for different applications. | |||
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I think in the super heavy weights you'll have the length issue. Not just stabalizing, but drastically cutting into your powder space and the gas check running into the thicker part of the case which will bulge the case. Out of curiousity I did drill out the nose cavity of some 460 gr WFN .475" cast bullets and ended up with a 400 gr hp. That bullet was so long that in a 480 it had to be crimped into the first lube groove as seated to the canalure it would swell the brass. I just don't see the benefit of the hp's as they are more difficult to cast and if I was after less penetrion, I'd go with a lighter flat nose bullet pushed faster. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I had wild boars/hogs in sight when designing these bullets. As for deer and other similar game, there are plenty of excellent bullets out there, these ones are unnecessary for them. Before I started, I noticed on Hodgdon reloading manual data for 45-360 and 44-325/330 with velocities for both above 1100 fps, all that from barrels 7,25, 1:16 twist (45) and 8.275, 1:20 twist (44). What surprised me is that they listed even 44-355, with velocities over 1200 fps. Now, looks like that those barrels are not vented to simulate cylinder-barrel gap, but again, nothing to sneeze at. Also I looked here http://www.loadswap.com/ and, according to some postings, velocities over 1200 fps are possible with 45-355 boolits, however, I am bit sceptical using those loads. IMHO, going few grains less and getting something like 1100 fps is more than enough. As for stability, I agree that this could be the issue, although, more in 44 than in 45 because later one (in Ruger) has faster twist. Testing it is the only way to find out. | |||
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Onty, I never found a good, heavy flat nose to be lacking in trauma production, that is why I don't feel a hollow-point is necessary, particularly in light of the fact that we are starting out with a rather large diameter. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I don't see where a 355 grain bullet is needed for hogs. I have shot an LBT 325 grain bullet completely through 1000 pound animals. That means the bullet exited all from the 45 Colt _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Ditto  "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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i killed buffalo with a 325 gr hardcast at 1550 fps from a casull 2x and both times penetration was more than complete both through the shoulders and once from just infront of the rear hip joint and out the opposite shoulder and the bullet was seen to skip down the field a few hundred yards by the guide with binoculars, don't think ya could go wrong with the same size at 1200 to 1300 out of a 45 colt or 44 mag. | |||
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