Don't forget that the 38 and 44 Spl's fire-etch the chamber area between the short brass and the magnum brass. As time goes along the etching gets deeper and the magnum loads will start to stick where it once did not. The magnum brass will flow into the fire-etched ring.

475, you're exactly right.

my first choice,money being no object,would be the freedom arms.
they are top quality,with a customer service department to match,they are expensive,but they are a custom gun which most folks will never see,let alone shoot.
second choice would be the raging bull,I have owned two,and my current 454 is my most accurate big bore gun,although its scoped.
the scope mounting is awesome,it has not moved from its original settings in over 3000 hot rounds.
third choice would be the ruger super redhawk,also a great gun with an outstanding warranty,although its not advertised as having a waranty.my local range has informed me that ruger is very easy to deal with if you ever have any problems with their products.

last choice magnum reserach,they couldn't care less about you after the sale.
they are a crappy retailor,they have been very rude to me after spending $3500+ on 2 of their firearms.they repeatedly deny any errors on their part.
one of my $1500 purchases came without a magazine,and the slide and frame finish didnt match.they supposedly sent me a replacement magazine which never arrived,they didnt seem fit to require a signiture and threw the mag on my porch which was quickly grabbed up by the local crack heads in my neighboorhood.
my second $1500 gun,the safety assembly flew off at the range,and it cost me $150 for some little cheesy parts springs levers etc.
they sent me 2 levers and forgot the actual safety,so to make a long story short,the gun is still sitting here as a boat anchor.

MAGNUM RESEARCH SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would go the Super Redhawk in .480 Ruger route, personally. Not only is it affordable, it's a damn effective round and the SRH is very accurate -- at least mine is. I couldn't be happier.

It is a federal law that one cannot legally buy a handgun until one is at least 21 years of age. The reasoning behind this was that the typical 18-20 year old boy is to immature to be trusted with a handheld weapon.

After reading your inital post to this thread, I can't argue with that logic. That Taurus that you drool over is a ridiculous toy. Your juvenile panting and gasping (I imagine the big bad wolf when he first spies Red-Riding-Hood) is laughable, as are your casual, matter-of-fact descriptions of each firearm. Like you've ever fired any of them.

I'm reminded of the initial "crotch rocket" motorcycle craze of the mid eighties. Sixteen year old kids would come into the local YamaHondaZukiSaki dealership "drooling" over the bikes. Their parents would co-sign on the loan for the latest/hottest 1000-1300 cc Wunderbike. That kid generally wrecked the thing within the first couple of months, because he was unable to control his immature joy of twisting the throttle wide open at every possible opportunity.

Get a Ruger GP-100 in .357 magnum with a 4" or 6" barrel. That revolver is far more useful and practical for an inexperienced handgunner. If you ever become proficient with it, that would be the time to get a .44 Magnum or .45 Colt Redhawk/Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk/Vaquero type of wheelgun.

The worst reason to own a firearm is to be "stylish", or "cool". Perhaps with any luck, you'll eventually figure that out. If I sound harsh, well, so be it. I don't want to take the chance that you'll show up at my range with your new handcannon and accidentally kill me or one of my friends with it.

Ill have to comment on this one. FA guns are brute strong guns! They will digest loads that I wouldnt shoot in a RB with a string tied to the trigger standing behind a big oak tree. I have nothing at all bad to say about the RB guns there a hell of a gun for the money but They are not in the same league as a FA 83 I dont own one personally but have guns made by clemments and linebaugh and the FA guns are every bit as good if not better made guns. The advice you have been getting about the stainless bisley accusport guns is the best advice you are getting! They are the most gun you will ever buy for the money! I have both the .45 and .44 and they both are very accurate guns with power to spare for anything your going to hunt. Buy one master it and then move up to the big bores. The .475 and .500 and .454 arent that tough to master. I agree totatly with the post that there recoil is overated. But they can hurt you if you are daydreaming and need to be treated with respect. Buy a .45 and work up to heavy cast loads and when you master that you will have no problem with a true big bore.

quote:

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Originally posted by ScottB:
Freedom arms are the finest 21st century machine work available on a washed up 19th century platform. They won't even hold up to the light rounds that my RB shoots all day. Just ask Longbob

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ps I totlaly agree with the post above about magnum research. I bought a .480 and was treated like shit by them!

Hey...I like this young man...he's got spunk and is honest about why he wants big bore. My advice is to go with the biggest badest one, because much of the enjoyment will be holding it , admiring it, and popping snap caps. For this, the big winner is the FA in 45/70.

The real shooting fun is reloading and shooting over a chronograph to compare recoil and overall control with velocity and energy. Cast bullets with a good clean fast pistol or shotgum powder are inexpensive and will put a smile on your face.

A 454 is also a great round to play with in the same manner, but has an advantage as it will fire muzzleloader .452 sabots carrying .357 or .400 bullets to stunning velocities. Plain old lead bullets with no gas checks work great in these sabots and you get NO leading at any velocity. Avoid ports if you want the option to shoot sabots though...you might frag yourself with a peice of sabot petal and accuracy will go to minute of barn. I don't know if the 500 S&W bore diameter is the same as 50 cal sabots but if it is you can fire 44 Mag bullets, and there is one heck of a selection.

Anybody kno the diameter of this bore and the 50 cal muzzleloader sabots?

There are tricks to loading these sabots, so if you are interested, post again and I will pass them along with some 454 starting loads. Good luck, and have fun!!

Hey Sabot, I'm interested. Please share some info on loading sabots in the 454. Starting charge, velocity, terminal effect, etc. Thanks!

OK�first safety, then expectations and finally loads.

SAFETY: With a seated sabot and bullet, you want to have 0.125 inches of sabot petals extending beyond the case and flush with the bullet. When you push them into the cylinder, you will get a small amount of resistance as the petals move into the throat. If they are too short, they can catch on the leading edge of the throat and pressures will rise. If you have to force them, they are already catching on the way in.

Sabots also use up some case capacity as they extend deeper into the case than the base of the bullet, so seating depth is important. Work up loads without a crimp or just enough to straighten the bell on the case. Crimping can come late after you have some loads worked up, but it dramatically increases pressure and velocity. Do not fire sabots in a ported firearm.

Use a chronograph, as there is no way to tell what is going on in a 454 without it.

EXPECTATIONS: You will not be able to get max 454 energies with sabots, but velocity will be high and recoil will drop dramatically. Is you load carefully and consistently, your accuracy will equal you best full bore 454 loads in the gun you are using.

LOADS: Start with Knight 45 Cal muzzleloader sabots and 40 cal pistol bullets. Brand does not matter but lead is cheaper, of course. 155 and 180-grain bullets are best for starters. Forget the loads you use for the 454 without sabots�they use much faster powders, seal the bore quickly and cut friction.

With 180 gr bullets use Longshot powder at COL 1.800 inches and start with 23 grains. Look for 1550 to 1600 fps. Increase to a velocity of 1850 fps or pressure signs, which ever comes first.

With 155 gr bullets use Universal Clays powder at COL 1.79 inches and start at 12 grains. Look for 1450 to 1500 fps. Increase to a charge weight giving 1750 to 1800 fps.

Mag primers are not necessary for these fast powders. These loads are with Win Small rifle primers.

For explosive results Gold Dot or Hornady XTPs will put on a show with varmints and pests. Lead bullets with a truncated cone design and a good meplat have a big impact and still penetrate very well.

You can get these velocities with much less powder if you crimp, but my testing indicates that the velocity spread goes way up as its hard to control starting pressure. A taper crimp might work better than a roll crimp, but I have not tried it.

Andrew Divers

"However, the federal juvenile possession ban [18 U.S.C. 922 (x)] makes it unlawful for persons under the age of 18 from possessing handguns."

So this means Private sales of Handguns to a minor (20 and under) is illegal! Cause a sale is deemed to mean transfer of possesion! Anyone under 21 can't take possesion of a handgun unless they are in direct supervision of an adult-they can shoot them but can't go out by thems selves and shoot/hunt with a pistol.

I know a young man in Tx that got busted under this law- his dad let him take a pistol out to go hunting and he got stopped for a trafic violation and then thrown in jail for the handgun daddy let him have for hunting!! Daddy never did get that gun back either- now his son has a Federal conviction and can never own a gun!

[ 09-03-2003, 19:21: Message edited by: Gunnut 45/454 ]

This is straight from the ATF...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

"(B15) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)? [Back]

Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e. g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting. "

As you can see, 18 years of age.

Maybe he just figured out that he was still a few years shy of legal, LOL!

You people who say "don't get a large bore handgun" are overlooking an important element; these babies practically insist on handloaded ammo, and what better place to start reloading than with something that doesn't cross that danger line easily without being a monster?

Consider a 45LC vs 454C. People often creep right on past the published max on the colt round, but generally back off on the 454 before they hit that point due to controllability. And in a practical application, the colt round loses effectiveness before reaching the theoretical maximum range for a good shooter, but the 454 surpasses any sane shooter's ability except maybe the savants like Elmer.

Go bigger and load medium instead of going medium and loading hot.

This guy is never coming back is he?

I have to agree with Gunnut on this one. I love it when a young guy goes out a buy's the biggest he can afford. I got a Raging Bull 454 for $250 Dollars from a young man at a gun show last year. All he said is Boy it really kicks. You just don't go out and buy a 454 and shoot it well if you do not have allot of smaller handgun experience behind you. Hell I have shot full house 44 mag loads in my SRH for years and it took me awhile to get used to the 454 and I starded with light loads. Well, Enough said.

[ 10-15-2003, 01:45: Message edited by: Handloader ]

If I found a raging bull for $250 id be checking to see if it was stolen!

quote:

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Originally posted by Handloader:
I have to agree with Gunnut on this one. I love it when a young guy goes out a buy's the biggest he can afford. I got a Raging Bull 454 for $250 Dollars from a young man at a gun show last year. All he said is Boy it really kicks. You just don't go out and buy a 454 and shoot it well if you do not have allot of smaller handgun experience behind you. Hell I have shot full house 44 mag loads in my SRH for years and it took me awhile to get used to the 454 and I starded with light loads. Well, Enough said.

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