What is the differences in the feel on the bisley and the #5 pointabilty,recoil,and shooter comfort?

Not much to do with "feel" but how the gun shoots for you. Many grips feel good but can make grouping hard. I feel the S&W, RH and Bisley are sensitive to hold.
If you shoot a good group and put the gun down, pick it up again and POI changes your grip is the problem.
You can change grips on any gun but some make it better while others make it worse.
I feel the Bisley is very hard to hold the same all the time.
Recoil feel is a myth.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:Recoil feel is a myth.

Just curious as to how recoil feel is a myth. Some grips handle recoil better than others. Personally, I feel the Bisley is better for severe recoil than the plough handle. Not a myth, a personal preference.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

Recoil feel is a myth.

Myth?

Why is it that a thin set of grips dig inot the web of the hand and wider set do not??

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
What is the differences in the feel on the bisley and the #5 pointabilty,recoil,and shooter comfort?

The Colt Bisley and the Ruger "Bisley" grip are not one and the same. The Ruger "Bisley" grip is close to a Keith #5 grip than a true Colt Bisley grip.

I have never used a true Colt Bisley and can not comment on how they feel and or point. Maybe MS Hitman can comment.

The Ruger Bisley grip is excellent IMHO and experience and I highly recomended them especialy for the heavy kickers as they help tremendously with "felt recoil"

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
What is the differences in the feel on the bisley and the #5 pointabilty,recoil,and shooter comfort?

The Colt Bisley and the Ruger " Bisley" grip are not one and then same. The Ruger "bisley grip is close to a Kieth #5 grip than a truse Colt Bisley grip.

I have never used a true Colt Bisley and can not commit on how they fee and or point. Maybe MS Hitman can commit

The Ruger Bisley grip is excellent IMHO and experience and I highly recomended them especial;y for the hwavy kickers as they help tremendously with "felt recoil"

Somewhere I have Keith's description of building the #5, but can't put my hands on it at this time. The Colt Bisley grips flare out at the base of the grip more so than the Ruger does. The Bisley grip is the only one John Linebaugh will build his larger caliber conversions on these days due to the amount of recoil generated by these rounds. Blackhawk or plough handle grips just twist too much in the hand to be comfortable.

quote:

Just curious as to how recoil feel is a myth. Some grips handle recoil better than others. Personally, I feel the Bisley is better for severe recoil than the plough handle. Not a myth, a personal preference.

It is because everyone's hands are different. Even wrist strength is important.
I will never say one grip is what anyone wants until they shoot it for themselves.
Even John with his new Freedom told the story. A few shots with the pretty grips and he was ready to throw the gun on the ground. First thing he did was to send for the rubber grips.
Now with his BFR his palm gets red with a few shots and he asks me time and time again why it does not hurt me. I look at him and grin! I can only tell you that after every shot with his Freedom, he would shake his hand in pain.
I refuse to tell anyone they NEED a Bisley.
Recoil is still there and is the same but a grip will change where it punches you and not everyone can take where it does that.

So it's not a myth, it boils down to personal preference......

It is a myth saying everyone needs the same grip.
I feel safe saying that!

Are you suggesting that I am a troll?

There are many who prefer the bisley to the plough handle -- this is a fact. You don't like the bisley and are therefore critical of the Bisley. I don't think the plough handle is particularly good for big recoil, but that is a preference of mine and my observation. There is a reason why so many custom large caliber revolvers end up getting a Bisley grip frame. That doesn't make it right or wrong, just a preference -- works for some, not for others.

You seem to take a hard line when something doesn't work for you. This doesn't mean that it doesn't work for someone else.

Nope, a troll would be someone telling everyone that only one grip is best.
You are not a troll, I am not a troll but anyone that tells everyone that only one grip is right would be a troll.
Don't feed the troll!

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Nope, a troll would be someone telling everyone that only one grip is best.
You are not a troll, I am not a troll but anyone that tells everyone that only one grip is right would be a troll.
Don't feed the troll!

This was your original post

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Recoil feel is a myth.[/QUOTE


Which is total BS because felt recoil or "Recoil feel" is definitely real

Troll? Perhaps, but more likely just obstinate
and contrary

Many people have said the Bisley works.
I don't think anyone said that ONLY the Bisley works..........

If you want to talk numbers you would have to say the really big guns are stocked with Bisley type stocks by probably a margin of 80% to 20%, just a guess on my part but if you read the different articles about big bore sixguns there's no question the Bisley is favored by a huge margin.
For many years I only shot OM blackhawks & kind of snickered when someone told me the Bisley stocks controlled recoil better....then when I tried them I was amazed at the differnce, not saying thats the only way to go because it isn't but, if you read Linebaugh's stuff or John Taffin's or any number of other long time shooters you see there's a definite preference for the Bisley, or Freedom Arms type stocks.

Dick

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Recoil feel is a myth.

If "recoil feel is a myth" then that pain that you think you feel when you hit your finger with a hammer is not real either

Am I the only one that noticed our fine expert from WV got his dig in on Freedom Arms again?

He's made those remarks so often they have no credence anymore; just like saying the moon is made of cheese. Truth of the matter is Bisley grip frames are the choice for most large bore revolver shooters who use single actions. There are some who may prefer the plough handle grips, but then, some people prefer to eat dog food and bark at the moon.

Ruger really muddied the water when they put Keith #5 grips on a Blackhawk and called them Bisley. Several posts above show just how much.

It really didn't matter much until everyone started making true Bisley copies.

Cottonstalk, here's the deal as I understand it: the original Colt Bisley grip is specific to a certain stance and one-handed style of competion shooting of the period, very smilar to bull-seye shooting today. It had nothing whatsoever to do with recoil management.

Elmer Keith co-developed a totally new grip by combining a Colt SAA front strap with a Colt Bisley grip frame. He made a few custom Colt single actions for hunting and one known as the the #5 revolver had this hybrid grip. A close copy is sold today by Power Performance for Ruger Blackhawks as the #5 Keith grip.

When Ruger decided to offer the "Bisley" Ruger they styled the hammer and trigger after the Colt but adopted a grip frame very similar to the Keith #5 instead of the original Colt Bisley. Then Bowen and Linebaugh began using the Ruger Bisley for their big bore guns and the rest is history.

If you knew all this please excuse the ramble. I put it up so you wouldn't inadvertently buy one of the true Colt Bisley copies thinking they were the same grip as the Ruger and therefore better at recoil management than the Colt SAA. They aren't, at least in my experience.

Thanks, tigger!

Bisley grip frames are my choice for my large bore single action revolver's.

Would appreciate some advice. I bought a .45 Bisley large frame at a gun show to use as a donor for a 5 shot conversion I'm going to do with Jack Huntington. We've had this same conversation. Subjectively, I much prefer the feel of the Bisley for my large hands, both in grip reproducibility and recoil feel. BUT, I seem to get more trigger guard impact on my 3rd finger with the Bisley grip than I do with similar loads in my SBH or NMBH .44 mags or specials.

The first I started reading about the 475 and 500 was that both Linebaugh and Bowen prefered the Ruger Bisley grip frame. This may be where most of the writing on the subject is comeing from. I do recall one article where the author shot both a SBH and Bisley in 475 with the same loads and swore to only shoot the Bisley afterwards. Somebody help me out with who and or if I mis-remembered it.
I discussed the matter with Clements in regards to a 475Long and he prefered the SBH frame.
The BFRs are noticably heavier than a Ruger, I think this helps with the recoil. The BFR grip frame is almost identicle to Ruger's SBH, but with a rounded trigger gaurd.
It is fun to shoot the huge bullets at high velocities, but I think we'd nearly all be much better off dropping the velocities to 1000-1200fps and not punish our hands and wrists.

I personally like the Houge Mono-Grip. I think the rubber on the BFR grips is too hard, the checkering bites into my hand if I don't have a glove on.
My favorite gun to shoot is a Stainless 4 5/8" Ruger in 45 Colt with the Houge grip on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45: The BFR grip frame is almost identicle to Ruger's SBH, but with a rounded trigger gaurd.

I actually used a set of Pachmyrs off of one of my Blackhawks on my BFR and they fit perfectly, before I got a set that were actually made for the BFR.

John Taffin mentions in one of his books about comparing the standard, the SBH & the Bisley grip frame all with the same loads & it was a very simple choice, the Bisley is much easier to tame for most shooters over the other 2 styles. Again, we are all different & some prefer the standard blackhawk or SBH grip frame, doesn't make those people wrong! Its how you grip the frame, how "meaty" your paws are, grip tension, etc.
One other thing that seldom gets mentioned is, a lot of shooters fail to get enough grip tention with their "weak" hand, the next time you shoot experiment with more grip tension, it helps a lot, plus it relaxes your trigger finger, true story!

Dick

You're right about that; technique has a lot to do with it. I think big bore rifle and big bore handgun technique ought to be a P.E. elective in middle school or higher...

Technique discussion here. To not hijack this thread.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...581075151#3581075151

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
You're right about that; technique has a lot to do with it. I think big bore rifle and big bore handgun technique ought to be a P.E. elective in middle school or higher...

The #5 allows for a higher grip than the Ruger Bisley and for me points better. While Ruger's Bisley grip seems to have similarities with the #5 they are not the same. The #5 is not as long as the Bisley, and the angle is different.

A myth maybe, but when I shoot heavy loads in a Ruger Bisley gripped gun it "don't hurt" as much as other grip frames. One time doing a side by side comparison with a SBH..both guns were 5.5" and loaded with the same loads...we would have sworn that the Bisley was loaded with lighter loads. They mythically seemed to kick less and hurt less. I have been told that the reason that some will only convert the "big boys" on Bisley grip framed guns is because they have to test fire them.

The story of the original Keith #5 is a good one, and was written up in the April 1929 American Rifleman in a Keith written article entitled "The Last Word". The gun was built by Harold Croft with Elmer's input. Croft brought 4 guns to Elmer to try, and after changes were discussed the fifth gun, or #5 was born. (Most know this story I am sure). The grip frame is the most notable modification to this gun, but is really only part of the work done.

Also repeating what trigger said, but the original Colt Bisley has only to do with making the gun easier to shoot in the classic target stance that was in practice at the World championships held at Bisley Common in England. It seemed that Colt was losing out to S&W guns and it was their attempt to get into the winner's circle. I have a Colt 5.5" Bisley, and it is awkward to shoot two handed. Trying the traditional one handed target stance I can see the advantage. The lower hammer and grip angle allowed the guns to be cocked one handed without changing grip position, and they do not roll in the hand like the SAA does.

Dan

For my bib thumpers I really like the Ruger Bisleys and use the plow handles for the lighter stuff. Just my opinion, but I like it.

This has definately turned into an interesting discussion.But my original inqurey was because the only #5 I have ever seen was in the EK musem and I have never had the opportunity to shoot one.It does however look like an interesting piece.Myself I'd love to shoot allthe different styles of grip frames ever made.I have found for "me"(don't get excited bfr) that the heavier the charge the more I appreciate the bisley.I don't know why but the lighter loads I do better with the bh or sbh grip frames.I ain't to old to learn new tricks so next time out I'm going to give Dick Ts thoughts a try and try several different grip modifications.Thanks again guys for all the responses it has been good info.

I'll be bringing a few BFRs to the Linebaugh shoot in Cody this spring. I have a Houge mono-grip on one, the BFR Black Micarta grips on another, and the factory grips also. I just ordered the parts to put a Bisley grip on one of them. I'll try to have ammo loaded with similar bullet weights at similar velocities if anyone wants to try them side by side.

Here's a link to John's site with the Seminar info at the bottom of the page. http://www.customsixguns.com/index.htm

quote:

Posted 07 March 2011 05:26 Hide Post
Am I the only one that noticed our fine expert from WV got his dig in on Freedom Arms again?

Nope, not a dig at all. That darn thing hurt with those slippery, pretty grips. That trigger guard gets pretty mean. I don't want ANY gun with my knuckle between the guard and grip.
Notice what I had to do with my MOA because the stupid thing would beat my knuckle. I had to make a new lever from stainless because the factory stuff was brutal.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

Posted 07 March 2011 05:26 Hide Post
Am I the only one that noticed our fine expert from WV got his dig in on Freedom Arms again?

Nope, not a dig at all. That darn thing hurt with those slippery, pretty grips. That trigger guard gets pretty mean. I don't want ANY gun with my knuckle between the guard and grip.
Notice what I had to do with my MOA because the stupid thing would beat my knuckle. I had to make a new lever from stainless because the factory stuff was brutal.

You come out of left field with this one. The orignal post is as follows

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
What is the differences in the feel on the bisley and the #5 pointabilty,recoil,and shooter comfort?

I have ruger vaqueros in 44 magnumn in both bisley and standard grip frames. Here is what my take is for my particular hand.

On the plowhandle heavy 44 magnum loads roll up in my hand and they are pleasant to shoot.
With the bisley grip, the same load pushes straight back with the recoil centered in my palm making it hard to keep my fingers closed around the gun.

With 'cowboy loads' -- the bisley is much more comfortable and quicker to shoot than the plowhandle.

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
What is the differences in the feel on the bisley and the #5 pointabilty,recoil,and shooter comfort?

Is not my answer about shooter comfort? Look at the MOA picture again--See how much the angle resembles a Bisley? See how the trigger guard could ruin your finger? Does not the Bisley stick your knuckle behind the guard the same way?
How to make a Bisley work? Put rubber grips on the thing with a filler behind the guard!
Why do you get so cantankerous?

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

Posted 07 March 2011 05:26 Hide Post
Am I the only one that noticed our fine expert from WV got his dig in on Freedom Arms again?

Nope, not a dig at all. That darn thing hurt with those slippery, pretty grips. That trigger guard gets pretty mean. I don't want ANY gun with my knuckle between the guard and grip.
Notice what I had to do with my MOA because the stupid thing would beat my knuckle. I had to make a new lever from stainless because the factory stuff was brutal.

Why are you bringing a MOA into the discussion? NO one is asking about the MOA

And no it is not the same as a Colt Bisley or a Ruger Bisley

quote:

Why are you bringing a MOA into the discussion? NO one is asking about the MOA

And no it is not the same as a Colt Bisley or a Ruger Bisley

Look at the gap between the trigger guard and grip and not the shape at the palm. THAT is where the problem is.
Another is the SBH with the square trigger guard and factory grips. You have to be a milk toast guy with girly hands to not get battered by the guard.
There is not a single grip that hurts my palm and I will shoot anything as long as my knuckle is not ruined. The Bisley will ruin it.
You attribute magical properties to it. It is NOT for everyone.
You are still being cantankerous.

Cantankerous? You are the one that brought up the MOA and it was not even asked about. You did that in repsponce to being called out about the constant bashing of the FA's

Girly hand my ass. I could not get a set of brass knuckles on, because my knuckles are too large to get through the hole. I have figured out how to shoot a Ruger Bisley grip comfortable. Just wise up. Remember if you are going to eat a water melon, you have to be smarter than the water melon



I see you have learned a new word from Whitworth "cantankerous", now learn to use it only when it applies

Seems we were talking grip shape and pain. Does that mean only one gun? Since the MOA grip is similar to a single action, just how does it differ?
OH, I see, it is the mention of Freedom! Why don't you grow up and stop being cantankerous?
No, I did not learn that from Whitworth. Don't bring him into this, he is a friend with opinions that I honor.
I really would like to see how you shoot a gun so the guard does not hurt you, maybe mouse loads!
Come up and shoot my MOA, I will put the factory loop on. You will throw it on the ground---NO, better yet, stay away, I don't want my gun thrown on the ground.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Seems we were talking grip shape and pain. Does that mean only one gun? Since the MOA grip is similar to a single action, just how does it differ?
OH, I see, it is the mention of Freedom! Why don't you grow up and stop being cantankerous?
No, I did not learn that from Whitworth. Don't bring him into this, he is a friend with opinions that I honor.
I really would like to see how you shoot a gun so the guard does not hurt you, maybe mouse loads!
Come up and shoot my MOA, I will put the factory loop on. You will throw it on the ground---NO, better yet, stay away, I don't want my gun thrown on the ground.

Again you miss the mark (pun intended) with your reply

Once again the thread is about the follwing

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
What is the differences in the feel on the bisley and the #5 pointabilty,recoil,and shooter comfort?

You so far are the only one that keeps posting about a grip that is not in the topic of this thread or anyone else's response

Whitworth;
"Paddle faster Matko!!!! I hear banjos!!!!!!"