In a moment of pure impulse, I decided to sell my 45-70 Contender to buy a dedicated hunting revolver. This is basically brought on by a unit here in Washington that only allows shotguns, archery equipment, muzzle-loaders, or "revolver-type" handguns. After a number of phone calls to WDFW to clarify what a "revolver type" weapon is, I was told that my Contender is not a legal weapon in this unit.

I want a gun capable of taking elk out to 100yds. At this point, I have my eye on either a 7.5" BFR in 45-70, or a SBH hunter in 44 mag. I know that the BFRs are great guns. I'm just not sure if they are really worth nearly twice as much as the Rugers. If anyone has used both guns and can give me some insight, I would appreciate it.

Also, with the price of the BFR (about $815 locally) being in the range of the 500 S&W X frame, would the 500 be a better choice all together? Thanks for your comments.

Andrew

BFR is unique in that you can spin the cylinder in either direction to line up the cartridge. Accuracy is on par with the ruger. My wife just bought herself a SBH in 44. The recoil is less on the 44 and the SBH is more of a joy to carry on those long stalks; however, you don't have the terminal performance of the 45-70 (not going to down an elk reliably at 100 yds with the 44).

As a side note, 454 casull has very similar ballistios to the 45-70 although in a much more compact package. Choices would be freedom arms , ruger super redhawk, or Smith & Wesson 460XVR (does 460S&W, 454, and 45 colt, gotta love 3-guns in one).

John

Go with the 500 Mag in the BFR or S&W X-frame, I have one of each and love them. I took a bear with one shot from my BFR 500 Mag. JMHO

There's an article on my website that covers the BFR line of single-actions. As you'll see, they're very similar to the Super Blackhawk with the exception of:

1) Improved fit & finish
2) Hand lapped barrels w/crown
3) Recessed cylinders
4) 17-4PH cylinders
5) Free-spinning pawls
6) Millett sights (the front sight screws on)
7) Tighter cylinder gaps


Lee Martin
http://www.singleactions.com

quote:

they're very similar to the Super Blackhawk

If only they had the Bisley Blackhawk handle...

You might also want to consider the Super redhawk in 454 or 480. Try and shoot them before purchasing. As much as I like the looks of the single actions, I shoot the SRH much better, and that is much more important than what the gun looks like to me.

I'd also think the 44 mag is on the light side for elk at 100 yds. If you want a longer range revolver, a scoped 454 is very hard to beat, 300's @ 1700 make it an honest 150 yd proposition.

I have a 10" 45-70 BFR. It shoots great and you can really turn up the volume on it. I've shot 405's at 1750fps. Ouch. The BFR is really HEAVY.

I also have a 4" 500 S&W, the recoil on it really isn't that bad even with factory loads. It seems to be fairly accurate. It has a really excellent trigger also. I haven't taken it to the range as much as the BFR though. After the end of a few days of Elk season last year, the 500 was starting to get a little anoying. The BFR gets anoying after about 20 minutes. I like the grips much better on the S&W especially in cold weather where the BFR grips Were too rough and hurt my cold hands.

I have a 475 BFR 7.5". I haven't shot enough to really comment on it, but it seems to do atleast as well as the Rugers.

I have a bunch of Rugers and most of them shoot fairly well. Does Washington allow a hot loaded 45 colt?(seems like they had an energy figure and minimum cartriges) Maybe look at the stainless bisley hunter in 45 colt?

Pauls been haveing real good luck with his Super in 480. That would give you the option of mounting a scope easily.

I have a Taurus in 454 that is really accurate, easy to shoot and a good trigger pull. The only bad thing about it is the cylinder unlocks some times with heavy 350gn loads. I need to send it back to Taurs. I've just been too busy.

On Gunbroker,I saw a Freedom Arms in 50 AE going for around $1000.

Lar said it all. But I find the BFR's are more accurate then the Rugers. Not a whole lot and when hunting the difference means nothing. However, it sure is fun to pack 5 shots in one ragged hole at 50 yd's. I have 2 friends with Freedoms (a .454 and a .475.) and my BFR's outshoot both of them. Again, not a problem for hunting.
Just pick a big enough gun for those 100 yd elk and the gun that you like.

I had considered the 454 in either the BFR or a SRH, but I'm not crazy about the recoil. Aside from the horrific muzzle blast on the 454 I've shot the recoil was faster than I like.

Even with the heavier loads in my 45-70 using 48gr of Re 7 and a 405gr hard cast, or 43gr and a 500gr hard cast recoil was a hard push but not that fast. The 454 just seemed too snappy.

Either way, it sounds like the 44 mag is a little under powered for a long range elk handgun.

Which .454 did you shoot? If it was a Freedom, then the recoil is sharp. The BFR and SRH are both heavier guns and with a scope they are a lot tamer then the Freedom. Go with a 7-1/2" barrel, minimum, and more weight is added plus long range accuracy.
If you were shooting a contender in 45-70, I don't know why a revolver would bother you! Every contender I had, even in 30-30 would hurt and shooting it with one hand was really bad but I can shoot my BFR .475 with one hand with no pain.
The Freedom is a wonderful gun and is perfect for a back up gun but for the primary hunting gun I want heavier. I have no trouble shooting as many as 100 rounds from the BFR's in a session. 20 out of a Freedom is enough. My .45 Vaquero with 335 gr hunting loads is put away after 12 shots. I have worked loads with the Vaquero and after a morning it drew blood on my middle finger and my finger swelled up.

The 454 was a SRH without a scope. It's been more than a year ago, but I'm pretty sure they the guy's handloads. Maybe they were just extra hot loads.

What is the trajectory like with the .475? I had considered the 475/480 BFR but I was concerned that it would have even more of a rainbow trajectory than the 45-70. Still, I was able to make consistent hits on bowling balls out a little past 125 yds with the 45-70 from a good field rest.

It depends on the boolit in the .475. My 430 gr WLNGC drops 4" at 100 yd's and my 411 gr WFN drops 6". These are boolits from my home made moulds.
My BFR 45-70 drops 18" at 200 yd's with my 317 gr boolit. MV is 1535 fps, I load for accuracy, not velocity.

BFR, have you seen those finger recoil pads that Brownells sells??? They are about $14ish and well worth it. I picked one up for shooting my 470NE as my middle finger knuckle would get hammered by the trigger gaurd. I tried it with the pistols and it works good there also.

Andy, they do make a 325gn .475 bullet for the Linebaugh or 480 that may help with trajectory if you push it faster than a 400gn.

I started looking on gunbroker and auctionarms and found my 475 and 500 in great shape slightly used for cheap. Well cheaper than new anyway. The 4" 500S&W only had 5 rounds through it. If you're looking for trajectory, then the 460 S&W should shoot fairly flat.

Lar, I don't need flat trajectory! It means little unless you shoot over 100 yd's. Accuracy is the key to success along with a good boolit.
I just switched out the Vaquero grips. I found that the Pachmayr grips for the Ruger old army fits the old Vaquero perfectly and the pain is gone. I can now empty the ammo box.
I talked my friend into getting the rubber grips for his .475 Freedom and the pain is gone from that gun too. I have a very large middle finger from a lifetime of archery shooting. It is now safe!

Lar, by the way, the BFR .475 does not like lighter boolits. Shoots best wth 400 gr's and up. The Freedom has a different twist and Does not like the heavy boolits at all. I will not give up accuracy for less recoil. Recoil does not bother me unless it beats my finger and the BFR's do not so I can shoot anything. I am not recoil sensitive and can shoot anything, rifle or handgun.

The BFR with one of the shorter barrels looks
like a good way for me to go.
Can someone please provide their web site?

http://www.magnumresearch.com/

Mark

Thank you, Sir!

Rod, I was fooling around with WW metal and a harder alloy today. I was using the boolit from my home made mould in my BFR .475. The hard alloy shot the best.
I put three shots in 9/16" and the other two shots opened the group to 2-1/8" AT 100 YARDS!

I've got two BFR's, a 6" .475 and a 10" .45/70. Both are accurate and tight and I'm well satisfied. My most recent Ruger was a .41 mag SBH Bisley Hunter which I just traded. The trigger was lousey but that can be fixed easily. The chambers were rough enough that the cylinder wanted to bind after firing all six shots with factory loads, The chamber throats were also rough and not uniform dia. The final blow was the three inch groups from a rest at 25 yards.
I also own a couple Rugers that are not for sale but would suggest checking out a SBH closely for quality. (I didn't) Ruger informed me on the phone that their accuracy standard is TWO INCHES AT FIFTEEN YARDS!! I dumped it!
Check out this guy for BFR prices. www.ak-47man.com.

Thanks Doghawg for the link. Those are outstanding prices for BFR's. I think I'm going to order a 475 to go with my 500 BFR.

IMHO, the 45/70 in a 7.5" revolver sucks ballistically. I think if it were me wanting a large bore wheel gun I would go with the 460XVR Smith&Wesson or about any other large pistol cartridge because they are made for the shorter tubes.

quote:

Originally posted by Luckyducker:
IMHO, the 45/70 in a 7.5" revolver sucks ballistically.

Mine is a 10" and I have no experience with the 7 1/2" but would be inclined to agree that it might be too short. I encountered some problems with inconsistent ignition with a few powders and 300 grain bullets. Reloder #7 (40 to 42 gr.)and 400 grain Speer or 405 gr. Rems and also 405 gr. Cast Performance GC's worked well for me. Velocity is in the 1325 to 1400 fps range, recoil is tolerable and with a 2X Leupold the gun will consistently group at 1 1/2" at 50 yards from a rest. At 1500+ fps the recoil becomes a problem for me but isn't as bad as a 4 3/4" FA .454!

I found an accurate practice load that shoots to the same POI as the hunting load. A 350 gr. Laser-Cast over 15.5 gr. of Unique (1150 fps) kicks like a big .38 Spl.

My experience with the 45/70 in the Contender pretty much convinced me that 300gr bullets were not the way to go. I found that using 400gr or heavier bullets and Re 7 I could get better ignition than the 300s with any powder in the short barrel.
My interest in the BFR was getting performance close to a 454 without the high pressures.

Guys, I have to confess that the only shooting of a 7 1/2" BFR 45/70 was with factory loaded ammo which I am sure was loaded for a trapdoor. The bullets seemed to drop off faster than a low power kids BB gun. I can say it made my 41 Mag look like a long range weapon.

Winchester 405 gr. jacketed factory loads chrony at 1130 fps ave. out of a 10" barrel and probably about 1050 fps out of a 7 1/2". They were very accurate and gave uniform velocity though. I pulled a bullet and there was 20.6 gr. of a semi-flat type ball powder. I'd like to know what powder it was because with that much airspace in the case it obviously wasn't position sensitive.

doghawg, thanks for the link. I found a revolver there I have been looking at, at the best price I've seen yet.