Anyone hunt deer with a 45 Colt lever rifle? I'd like to hear about your successes or the lack thereof. I have some 300gr XTPs loaded up with W296 that I thought I'd try this coming season.

Ruger#1

I've bagged a couple with my 10"contender,250gr cast bullet over 9gr of clays.I keep my shots under 40 yds.

Do you know how fast you're pushin it? The Hornady tech gave me 21.5 gr of W296 with that 300 grainer and said I should get 16-1700fps from my 24" carbine.

Ruger#1

Try looking thru Paco Kelly's files over in www.sixgunner.com. He had at least one article hunting with 45 Long Colt in the "rifle".

LouisB

Thanks, will have a look.

Ruger#1

P.S. Site must be down, can't get to it.

ok, did a search and found it. http://www.sixgunner.com/website/information.htm

[ 04-01-2003, 04:34: Message edited by: Ruger#1 ]

#1 I shoot a 300gr LFP o/ 21gr W296 for app. 1050fps from my 4 5/8" BH. You will probably get closer to 1500fps from your rifle. I haven't killed anything but jack rabbits w/ mine. It should be a heck of a deer thumper out to 75 yards or so.

Hmmm, makes me think I need a slower powder to make use of the longer barrel.

Ruger#1

[ 04-01-2003, 19:55: Message edited by: Ruger#1 ]

Ruger#1
I get around 1650 W296 with mine and 300 gr GC WFN, with 300 XTP-Mags I get around 1725fps with 23.0 H110 more than enough for deer out about 150 yds!! I can get about 1800's with 255 gr SWC as well which shoot a little flatter then the 300 gr. Though I haven't taken one with it yet! This year hopefully!!

anybody kill a deer with an xtp?
How did the bullet perform?

I have used saboted XTP's in my muzle loader at around 1400 fps. Performed well on the 7(?) deer I hit. Some broke up, but if I recall all were one shot, almost instantaneous kills.

I hit a big doe with an XTP Mag at 2200 fps, and it obliterated the lungs, and resulted in a "buckets of blood" trail-- three leaps long. Ruined one roast, but the kill was nearly instant.

Another XTP kill was on a nice 8 point buck at... about 25 feet. I came across him stalking dense brush along a creek. All I could see was his head and big rack. Well... the XTP must have really done a number on his brain pan, as the antlers POPPED OFF! Nice and clean- weird what an XTPMag will do above 2000 fps!

I've also shot those XTPs in to steel belted radial tires at the range- used for backstop and target props. At 2500 fps (Savage MLII Muzzleloader- yes, over 2500 fps, no joke- this gun is a H&H Mag front-stuffer) you can shed the core, but the remaining 200 grain lump of lead is more than enough for any purpose.

I bought a huge pile of them, and will be using them next year in my Casull carbine, too.

Pete

I have used a heavy loaded .45 Colt on several hunts. I use a 310 grs hard cast with a good lump of 296. Lately the 250 grs XTP with 2400 has given good results. I used it on an antelope ewe at about 30 yds.

Aleko

Thanks, this is encouraging, I just ordered a chronograph, will see what I'm getting in a week or so.

Ruger#1

Heritage Arms,
>Lately the 250 grs XTP with 2400 has given good results

What cartridge, rifle and load are you using to get these velocities?

I had a custom ruger blackhawk that was heat treated. I will not tell you the max loads we developed but out of the 7,5" barrel the hunting load, not the max, was about 1300 to 1325 fps. Work your loads up carefully! .45 Colts are a little tricky when you load these charges pressures change with magnum large pistol magnum primers. I only used winchester brass. We also took a super blackhawk in .44 mag and turned it into a .45 Colt and rebarreled the super blackhawk with a .45 LC barrel. We destroyed a 25 -5 with the use of the really heavy handloads.

Be careful!!!

Aleko

[ 04-09-2003, 12:01: Message edited by: Heritage Arms ]

Hope I'm not too late to jump on this wagon. I have had fantastic success with just the load you are thinking about Ruger #1. However I never used a 300 grain bullet for deer.

I have always used a 250 gr. bullet, preferrably the Hornady XTP and in the handgun I use WW296 and as you have alluded to for the rifle something slower like H110.

Like the others I am hesitant to publish my particular loads. You can find many good ones in different manuals.

Kudo's on ordering a chronograph. I don't know how anyone gets by without one.

And use Starline Brass for hunting and the other really important stuff. Cross-section a case and compare it to anyone else's and you will see the difference. I always take my new Starline Brass and size, trim and shoot my favorite 8.0 grains of Unique with WLP and my 255 gr. Keith cast bullet.

I always use once fired cases for my really "magnum" loads. I have found that on a rare occasion if you don't use "once fired" brass the "magnum" loads will split new and slightly brittle brass.

After one "magnum" load I relegate the brass to more docile stuff. I have some Starline Brass that I have gotten 50+ loads out of!

By the by, the 250gr XTP out of my Winchester 94 with a 20" bbl has accounted for 3 deer from 40 to 165 yards. All one shot kills, be careful however because they do a lot of damage.

Reverenddan, I called the Hornady techs and asked them about a slower powder for my rifle and they said that 296 was about the slowest you could get by with because of limited case capacity, the 300grainer seats kinda deep to keep the 1.6 max oal. Seems the 250er that you were loading would be a better weight in that respect. I chose the 300 not for any scientific reasons but rather the abstract idea putting a big chunk of expanding lead downrange. Hehe

Ruger #1,

I'm using the Hornady 300 XTP with H110 in my .44 Mag carbine. I believe that you will find that you have plentyy of velocity with 300 gr. at 1700 fps or so.

BTW, H110 and W296 are the same powder in different packaging.

H110 is called ww 295. It is close but not exact to ww 296.

Aleko

To shed some light.

http://www.sixgunner.com/paco/pprofile1.htm

If you look at the load data in most books you'll see the H110 & W296 are almost a gr for gr equivalant. Now you'll get more velocity with H110 vs W296 and you can't load as heavy with W296 -usually a gr to half a gr less is the Max for W296. I've used both alot and don't see much difference. Some loads are more accurate then others -My heavy 255 SWc load is more accurate with H110 vs. my 300 Gr XTP load with 23grs of W296 is more accurate them with H110. Now my 300 WFN load is more accurate with 23.3 gr of H110 then 22.9 grs of W296 which is Max I get nasty brass splits past this point!

Gunnut, what firearm are you shooting the 23gr of 296 in? Just curious, was reading around at six-gunner and they are saying that some are stronger than others... IE they are saying that 1892 style carbines are stronger than 1894 types like mine.

Back from the range... 21.5 gr of 296 is yielding 1550 fps from my carbine. Not as much as I expected but still plenty to do in a 120-150lb whitetail at 75-100 yds with some to spare I think.

thanks for all the replies and commentary

Good shooting,

Just purchased a Ruger Bisley 45 Colt w/7 1/2" barrel. Loaded some Hornady 250 grn HP/XTP bullets over 25.5grns of H110 in new brass. At 25yds I got a 2" group from lightly crimped rounds and 1.5" from med crimp. I fire my last two rounds from a rest at 100 yds and they hit 3" low and about a 4" group in the 6" black on the target. I'm sold on the 45 Colt and it's power. I'm going to try some heavy crimped and then some 255grn Cast bullets. This load is a handful and don't think I will go any hotter. I have five Contenders and two in bigger calibers but I will try to take my next deer with the Ruger.
Mike

Ouch... that's a hot load.. I'd like to put that one over a chrono and see what it does.
At 21.5 of 296 I'm already at max according to one load book and 1.0gr over max according to another. I'd like to go hotter but read that very hot loads can set the bolt on a carbine back and I don't want to risk it. As I understand it, reading pressure signs on straight wall calibers is harder to do than on bottleneck cases so I'll just play it safe and stick with what I think is a safe load that won't hurt my rifle with repeated firings.

Ruger#1
That would be a Win 94 AE, 20 " barrel- That's my load -for my gun, so take that with a grain of salt -reduce 10% and work up to max for your rifle!!! When I started getting split cases I backed off a few tenths and that stopped.
Also this is where the accuracy got real good!! I'm seeing 1/2 groups at 50 yds!! Scoped of course!

It's a month later and I'd like to re-open this topic if possible. Seems you folks got started a few weeks before I did playing with these loads, and I am trying to catch up.

I am using the XTP as well in a 454 Puma. Hot loads with the 240 grain XTP mag are pushing the bullet at about 2200fps. Not sure what the bullet is designed for, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on this. I also have some of the 300 XTP Mag bullets to load, but I haven't started playing with them yet. I can say for sure that the 240 grainers really thump from that 6 lb M92 rifle.

Stinkypete, What size XTP's were you using to shoot those deer?? Thanks

According to some comments at sixgunner, to answer a question I saw earlier, the Model 92 is stronger than the model 94. Thanks LIV

[ 05-15-2003, 08:53: Message edited by: lostinvt ]

i use 22 gr of 2400 under a 240gr JHP in my .45 vaquero, 4 1/2" barrel and same load in my win. '94 with 20" barrel. the chrony tells me im getting 1200 fps from the ruger and 1660 out of the winchester.

lostinvt

In my Puma 454 with the 300 gr XTP-Mags I shoot with 30.5 gr W296 and get 1995 fps average. I know I could push them more but the accuracy falls off if I do. Just placed a order for 240 XTP-Mags be here Wensday. Your getting 2200? Sounds about right. I call Hornanday after I placed the order -they said 35-36.8gr of W296 is the load used for the 454 7 1/2 pistol. So I'll start with 34 and work up was hoping for 2200-2300 fps! Got to love working in the unknown with a new cartridge/firearm. I also plan on working up a 240 XTP-Mag load for my Win 94 45LC- this should be and excellant bullet at around 1900-2000 fps!

[ 05-20-2003, 00:36: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

lostinvt
I've done some shooting with the 240 XTP-Mags in the 454! Wow!!! Average 2315FPS!! With 35 gr W296!!! Got 1810 FPS in the SRH Thats the starting load as per Hornady 36.6 being the max! Recoil was definately less then with 300 gr XTP's- I haven't worked up any loads for the 45 LC yet Hornady said they didn't like the pressure they saw with H110 or W296 with the 240's in 45 LC and sugested I use either 2400 or AA 9? Don't have either so it's on hold for now. I think there was a Unique load in my books for for the 260gr that might work I'll have to look. :

[ 05-30-2003, 20:35: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

I have the New Model Blackhawk 45 with 71/2" barrel and I shoot the 240gr bullets 1450fps and the 250gr bullets at 1400fps. I am planing to hunt deer with these loads if they pass hand gun hunting where I live. Other wise I'll have to hunt deer in another state that has hand gun hunting.

I had my 5.5" new model out this weekend, trying to work up a load with 250 gr. XTP's and Hodgdon Lil' Gun. Whoof, talk about a handful! Didn't seem to matter what load I used, the best 5 shot groups I could come up with were about 3" at 25 yards - but some of that would be my fault, not the gun or load! I'd get 3 touching, and then throw the next two out of the group. Looking forward to using this setup on deer this fall.

Echo23TC
Had the same problem with my BH -with a stout load I could get and acceptable group. Now I have the SRH 454 and with the heavy 45 loads it's a pussy cat I think the extra wieght made all the differnce. I'm way more accurate with heavy colt vs. 454 loads! Though I love shooting 454's just don't shoot them as good as the 45LC's-recoil is the devil of accuracy.

Yep, it was the first time I've fired those max loads. I'm a lot more used to a cast bullet at 900! After I shot the first "group", I was about ready to call it quits since I couldn't even keep them all on the paper! But then I settled down, got a good firm two-handed grip and concentrated on the sight picture. Then I'd get a good group started, and lose my concentration. Those loads are going to be reserved for deer, and very occasional targets.

But I kept them all on the paper after that!

One thing I did notice, was that my regular cast load and the max loads shot to the same point at 25 yards. I don't know what I expected, but that wasn't it.

Thought I'd bring this thread back up and give you an update.
I decided to drop from that 300gr XTP to a Hawk 250gr .025 HP. With 23gr of 296 my chrony was telling me 1670ish. I got no pressure signs at all but I'm still not going to feed my carbine a regular diet of these, just 3 to confirm zero at the beginning of the season and what I use hunting. The remaining 40 I have loaded should last me a number of years.

I took a 150lb whitetail with this load this evening, shot placement was not the greatest, missed the heart but still scrambled the lungs quite well. Shot was slightly angled from broadside, took out a rib going in, gave her a little breathing problem and took out another rib on exit. Entrance wound was about 50 cal, exit wound was about golf ball size. She got about 100yds before deciding to let me have the steaks.
Range was about 40-50 yds.

Concerning the Hawks, if you don't ask for a cannelure, you don't get one (no charge). I thought I crimped the juice out of them but 5 of the remaining 9 in my magazine buried the bullet in the case on the first shot. I'm glad I noticed it when I cycled the lever.

Good hunting,
Ian

Way to go. I have no doubt that most any .45 bullet will take a whitetail.
I just got some new 300 grn semi wadcutter gas check cast bullets. I loaded some with the H100 and man, they will shoot lights out. I'm getting 2" groups at 80 yds w/open sights and I tried one 100 yd target before running out of test ammo. Had three in 3" group and one flyer making it about a 4.5" group. I'm loading more tonight and will be at the range tomorrow. This WILL be my whitetail/hog load in two weeks.

Mike...OK

[ 11-11-2003, 19:16: Message edited by: McClura ]

FWIW Department

This is certainly NOT a thorough study. But a few years back I bought one of the Win 94 Trapper 16" Carbines and tested my normal .45 colt 7 1/2" SBH loads in it. Across the board the rifle gave me a very consistent average of +300 additional FPS over the pistol loads. So I now use that as a rule of thumb when I switch loads between the two. The funny thing was slow or moderate powders all seemed to give me the same +300 FPS. So this idea of needing a slower powder for a longer barrel?? Maybe it IS a myth.

I've read articles and have spoken with people who IMHO REALLY hotrod the .45 colt for the Marlin and Win carbines. One can get some impressive performance with 296 or H110 and heavier bullets.

FN in MT

[ 11-11-2003, 21:19: Message edited by: Frank Nowakowski ]

Hey guys, .45 colt and .44 mag's are just the ticket for deer. I never have to track a deer shot with one of my revolvers, out of the rifle they are amazing. Every season I have a neighbor or two coming to get me to help find deer shot with 7mm mags, 300 mags and 30-06's. One buck went over a mile with a hole in it big enough to put your head in. He stopped bleeding after only 100 yds. Meat damage was massive. I on the other hand walk over and get my deer and can butcher right to the hole. I can't convince these guys that some guns are too big for deer unless they are shot at 400 to 500 yds.