youp50, dla never misses an opportunity to hit and run. He doesn't like hardcast bullets and no amount of facts will get in his way of drawing the conclusion that jacketed bullets are superior. It's the inconsistency of jacketed bullets that really points me in another direction. At least with a good flat-nosed hardcast bullet I know how it will perform every time.

I've got "some" experience with bears, and I'll say this. NO JHPs on my hunts, not in my truck, and not with my dogs. That was my philosophy. You didn't pay vet bills I did and that's it.

I am not surprised by the results, seen it happen with XTPs in .41 and .44, I've also seen them kill, too iffy iffy to put a man's or 2000 dollar hound's life at stake with.

The 270 gr speer gd flat point is the ONLY jacketed bullet I have seen consistent results with.

You guys can talk all the smack you want about any species you want and the effects of this round or that, but when it comes to black bears, in this part of the country, you can't tell me *&%#. JMO from ME.

quote:
Originally posted by youp50:

The point being missed is the test was taken because of poor penetration in black bears from factory JHP ammuniton. Yes, the mighty 44 has come up short too. All the guys over there (west central Wisconsin) have given up on factory JHP and are loading hardcast or a non HP bullet.



That is a consistent turn of events for most folks following hounds. Point blank, fast, quick shots, needing immediate game stopping ability and penetration everytime regardless of the situation or position of animal.

Point blank and any flight time of a projectile will give different results, especially in jacketed bullets. Not much different in HC. Again jmo from me.

If you are hunting with a handgun, use hard cast bullets, Barnes bullets, even there solid copper hollow point bullet retain there weight and penetrate, but there Barnes busters are the stuff, also the bunch bullets. Big holes, notice I said holes, you want them to go through the animal and leave 2 holes to let the blood out, one for tracking and two for no blood no life..

I would never use a hollow point bullet for hunting big game with a handgun, and big game for me starts with deer on up.

If I were to use a jacketed bullet, I would use a soft point bullet such as a Nosler partition or hornady XTP mag bullet.

Also for me, hunting anything bigger or tougher than a deer, I use a 45 caliber and up, the holes never get smaller. My 357 Mag is the smallest I would use on deer, and a hard cast WFN is my choice of bullet.

JMHO and my actual hunting with a handgun experience. I am talking handgun pistol cases, not a rifled case in an Encore. ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
I've got "some" experience with bears, and I'll say this. NO JHPs on my hunts, not in my truck, and not with my dogs. That was my philosophy. You didn't pay vet bills I did and that's it.

I am not surprised by the results, seen it happen with XTPs in .41 and .44, I've also seen them kill, too iffy iffy to put a man's or 2000 dollar hound's life at stake with.

The 270 gr speer gd flat point is the ONLY jacketed bullet I have seen consistent results with.

You guys can talk all the smack you want about any species you want and the effects of this round or that, but when it comes to black bears, in this part of the country, you can't tell me *&%#. JMO from ME.

I am with you there on the no JHP for bear! I have taken 6 black bear now, all have died with one shot from a hard cast bullet, not one went over 25 yards from the shot. I take out one front leg, and both lungs every time. They can't run far, and they can't breath, and one hell of a blood trail for the long 25 yard trailing job.. The loud death moan tell me how far the went... Also nothing smaller that a 45 caliber bullet used on black bear for me... If you start out with a big hole, no expansion is needed....

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
I've got "some" experience with bears, and I'll say this. NO JHPs on my hunts, not in my truck, and not with my dogs. That was my philosophy. You didn't pay vet bills I did and that's it.

I am not surprised by the results, seen it happen with XTPs in .41 and .44, I've also seen them kill, too iffy iffy to put a man's or 2000 dollar hound's life at stake with.

The 270 gr speer gd flat point is the ONLY jacketed bullet I have seen consistent results with.

You guys can talk all the smack you want about any species you want and the effects of this round or that, but when it comes to black bears, in this part of the country, you can't tell me *&%#. JMO from ME.

I am with you there on the no JHP for bear! I have taken 6 black bear now, all have died with one shot from a hard cast bullet, not one went over 25 yards from the shot. I take out one front leg, and both lungs every time. They can't run far, and they can't breath, and one hell of a blood trail for the long 25 yard trailing job.. The loud death moan tell me how far the went... Also nothing smaller that a 45 caliber bullet used on black bear for me... If you start out with a big hole, no expansion is needed....

Well said Cottonstalk and Redhawk1!

I have had enough experiences with jacketed HP's and soft points to know not to use them....for over 30 years its been cast for me...same performance each and every time.

I have had my first and last experience with jacketed handgun bullets. 5 years ago, I shot a 300lb class wild hog with a 300 grain speer psp out of a 44 mag. This was loaded with speer's max load of H110 so it wasn't a squib load. Out of 3 slugs fired, 1 was recovered. The 2 that missed heavy bone passed completely through. The 1 that was recovered broke both shoulders and bulged the hide on the far side. My biggest concern was why did the recovered slug only weigh 198 grains? This bullet would probably be OK for deer, but I would not use it on bear. To keep things simple, it's WFNs for everything now

Shoot, after reading what the 300 grain speers did in a 300 pound hog I think they would be great bullets for hunting. Breaking both shoulders and still 198 grains is a good thing in my mind.

I have only shot 1 deer with a 210 hollow point out of a 4-5/8" Blackhawk. Shot through the lungs at 110 yards (ranged). Bullet made a nice wound channel and exited.

WOW ... lack of penetration even into the abdominal cavity is very surprising.

I have hunted deer with both hard cast and Remington 210 JSP ammo. The Keith or H&G hard cast certainly pass through but did not give me instant kills. So I switched to the 210 JSP and got both bigger wound cavities and full penetration.

As I do hunt in bear country, I guess I'd better carry 4 hard cast in the jug of my 6" S&W M57 just in case.