I'm looking to purchase a "bear insurance" revolver for griz country here in Wyoming. Hope I never need to use it, but more and more guys are running into bears lately. I've narrowed down my decision to either a ported Taurus titanium 41mag, or a 4" S&W629 44mag. I already have a nice 357mag for fun shooting, so this would be pretty much a bear, lion, and (who knows if things keep going like they are here in Wyoming) wolf gun. I really like the light weight of the Taurus, and looking at the loading manuals I should be able to load it to a fairly formidable load. Not sure how rough the recoil would be? I'll pack it on fishing, backpacking, and hunting trips. Most of the locals have indicated that after packing a big blackhawk (which I first considered to purchase), or raging bull for a day, they leave them in the tent, wishing they'd bought the lighter, smaller gun. I know my odds of an encounter are pretty slim, I know that the pepper spray is what's being recommended by the game and fish guys, I know hitting a target moving as fast as a griz can is damn difficult, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to stand and watch my dog, kid, wife or self get chewed on if the encounter ever happened and not have any options. Besides this is a gun forum, not a pepper spray forum. Help me out! Which way should I go? What's the recoil like in the ported 41mag titanium with max loads? Any worse than a full loaded 44mag in a 4" S&W629? and would you use a cast performance lead bullet, or a jacketed flat nose?

I know you said you'd narrowed it to the 41 and 44. However, IMHO the perfect handgun to carry for what you just described is a ruger blackhawk in 45 colt with a 4-5/8 barrel - weighs about 36 ounces. Load up with some 300 gr Speer at 1200 fps and you have 1000 foot lbs of big, heavy, wide bullet that penetrates like you would not believe.



BTW, the 45 colt is a new model blackhawk, not a SUPER blackhawk, and so it is considerably lighter than the 44s.



I've got a 41, some 44s and some 45 colts, and the last is my first choice for carrying in bear country while bowhunting. JMO...



As for recoil differences. Personally, I can't tell a lot of difference between the three. Most of what I load gives me between 700 and 1000 ft lbs. Even the 41 has plenty of snap to its recoil even in a gun at 50+ ounces. I've heard some say that the 41 has "much less recoil than a 44" - I think these people have fired very few 41s... JMO



Anyway, good luck.

I'll agree the 41 can kick too. I loaded my ruger blackhawk 4-5/8 barrel with 293 grain hardcast at 1275 fps.

With one of the guns you mentioned I would look for a hardcast bullet @ 240-250 grains at 1250+ . Seems like my idea of a good Keith load. Which should penetrate well enough to put the hurt on a bear.

And practice double action shooting. If you get a double action might as well learn to put it to use.

I would get the S&W 629 out of those two. There are mountain guns, trail bosses, sacndiums, 3" V-comps, etc...

But the 44 is the way I would go because of the availabillity of ammo at any walmart and every gun store. The 3 walmart stores I occasionaly frequent do not stock 41 ammo. Sure you may not want to rely on the Wal-mart loads (Win white box or CCI Blazers) against a bear, but if you do not reload it makes good practice ammo, also in a pinch it is better than nothing.

Plus the bigger the whole in the barrel the more comforting the gun will be. Right?

But the 41 will work.


David

pharmpoke
My wife and I carry S&W 4" 44 Mags all the time while hunting. I have been on many trips with friends who carried bigger/longer revolvers and you are right, after a day or two they are left in the tent. The 41,44, or the 45 Colt will all do a good job for you. I perfer the S&W 44 for several reasons. First there are many more factory loads avialable, even if you normally shoot only your reloads it is nice to be able to get factory loads and 44 loads are much more widely available. Speer shotshells are so handy that that alone is reason enough to go with the 44 or now that they are available the 45 Colt. For a defensive situation I much prefer the double action revolver over the single action. Also the DA is much quicker to reload, and much quicker to replace your bear ammo with a couple of shotshells to pot a Grouse, rabbit etc. We each got a S&W "Mountain Gun" a couple of years ago and it is just enough lighter that you can notice the difference in the holster, but it is not too bad in recoil with the loads like Garretts Hammerheads or Federal Cast core.
The best way to carry it that I have found is in a De Santis crossdraw holster. The revolver thus carried is very comfortable and accessable with backpack, daypack, on horse back when seated,or when wearing a coat or rain coat. I prefer to have the holster on my pants belt instead of a seperate "pistol belt".

I forgot to add: I would go with hard cast bullets. If you do not cast your own, which you should, then you cannot do any better than cast performance bullets.

Also Buffalo Bore make a very impressive load for the 44 with a 270 grain Gold Dot at around 1400fps. This load is very accurate.

David

I used to notice the weight of the Redhawk x 44 x 5.5" when hiking or bumming around the woods. After a close encounter of the furred kind two summers back, I DEFINITELY notice its absence if not on my hip! A S&W M-1026 goes along sometimes, in place of the 44. The Glock 10mm seems to be very popular in AK for counter-bruin close quarters work. I'm looking into developing a 200 grain cast boolit load for this caliber as a hunting tool.

I also supplemented the 44 Magnum/10mm with a nice CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 for berry picking excursions like the one above. I like black bears very much, and don't hunt them--but I don't want wife/kids/self to be a chew toy for one, either.

Pharmpoke,

I would say the 41 Mag with full tilt modern loads with heavy hard cast bullets of LBT design would work for a handgun for protection, but to get one in the Taurus would not be my idea of a good choice.

First off these medium frame revolvers whould not be loaded to the levels needed for bear protection loads or they work loose quite quickly.

The S&W is a fine choice but it to will work loose with extended practice with heavy loads. Many will say that you should only carry the heavy loads when youare in the woods but I feel this is a grave mistake.

Getting the mind adjusted to the feel and recoil of light practice rounds will be of no benefit to you when you touch off a full tilt hammer load. Many will also say that in the heat of the moment, you will not feel the recoil or the heavy loads, this may well be true but you will also not be ready to quickly recover from the heavier recoil and prepare for the follow up shot, WHICH WILL BE NEEDED FOR STOPPING A BEAR WITH A HANDGUN, unless you are extremely lucky.

That said, I like as large a bullet as I can push while keeping recoil to a controlable level in a pack weight handgun.

This pretty much counts out the 454 class rounds for me.

My pick is a stainless 4 5/8" Ruger 45 Colt in the Blackhawk with a set of Pach. rubber grips. My load drives the 360 gr WFNGC from CBP to 1100 fps and this load will drive through any critter in North America with ease while still being easy to carry and relatively easy to shoot.

My perfect carry revolver would be a Blackhawk of same size and length but with a 5 shot 480 Ruger caliber. I would then shoot the 425 gr WFNGC loaded to the same 1100 fps.

Unfortunately, this is a custom option only!

Good Shooting!!

50

I have the 4 5/8" Stainless blackhawk. It is light, compact, accurate and comfortable to shoot with the Houge mono-grip on it. It will handle higher pressure loads and last longer than a S&W. Not to start a S&W fight, but been there, spent the money and had it wear out soon.

I'm hearing lots of props for the single action ruger. I'm paying attention and have thought of going that route (actually kind of liked the idea), but doesn't a feller want to be able to get shots off with one hand and as quickly as needed in whatever position he may find himself in? Recently heard of a guy who had one arm in a bear's mouth (lost some chunks out of it by the way) and couldn't manage his single action with the other hand, his buddy bailed him out and saved his life from the story I heard. Having done very little single action shooting, I could be wrong in my assesment- am I?

I started a thread just this morning about this very question. I thought DA for sure, but I am starting to have some doubts. SA won't come open in a struggle, they can be used one-handed without too much trouble, and they are less likely to result in shooting all your rounds off in a panic before they are needed. Anyway...

I've shot the .41, 44 and 45 Colt a lot in hunting and junk yard shootouts. I prefer the .41 or 44 personally although, assuming your skills are equal with all three, I think you would be equally well defended with any of your choices. The advice about using a good hard cast bullet is sound unless your choice of a jacketed bullet is CERTAIN not to brake apart of heavy bones.

If we are talking about black bear encounters here, I would feel fairly secure with your choices. But if I REALLY believed I might have a serious encounter with a grizzly, I wouldn't think in terms of a pistol at all. At one time years ago I planned to move to Alaska and my protection gun for when I was out fishing or messing around was going to be a Model 98 Mauser Carbine in 8mm. I believe I would still think in terms of some short carbine type rifle. Nothing fancy, just something you can take along and not worry about much but always keep close. I think I'd rather face a griz with a 30/30 than any pistol.

Most of the guys who have had sudden bear attacks and have had to shoot their way out of it did so with a RIFLE. If you are determined to try it with a pistol, get one with chocolate grips in case you have to eat it.

Don't wanta start any kinda flaming but . . .

I love my Redhawk and Super Redhawk, but if I were gonna be toting them around a bunch I would think about a S&W Mountain gun. It is a little lighter and that double action might be handy one day (lets hope you never get to test it).

I also love the Ruger Single actions, but would do some serious practicing if I were going to use one for "Protection".

Just opinions of course

I definitely agree about the 4 and 5/8ths Blackhawk. My load is the 360 gr Cast Performance at 1100 fps. I sold my 454 Casull and got the Blackhawk with the extra 45 ACP cylinder for $445 and never looked back. The other factor is that this little SA is just plain fun to shoot and is amazingly flexible with the extra cylinder. Even the little ACP will push 200 gr XTPs 1400 fps in case you want to stop something smaller than a bear real quick...

I also carry a 4 5/8"SSBH loaded w/ hard cast 300grWLFP @ 1000fps. This load penetrates more than my .338 in wet phone books, most impressive. I can handle the recoil w/ one hand, practice one handed even if you get a DA. If you have smaller hands you could have a SBH hammer fitted to your BH. It's a bit more curved/lower & allows easier one hand cocking.

I agree a rifle is better bear protection but you may not always have it in reach (fishing).

The .41Magnum is enough for grizzly if the right bullet is placed in the right spot. You might check before you buy the Tracker 'cause I've heard they have a rather short cylinder, making it difficult to shot heavyweight bullets. If you want to stick with a DA, find a good used S&W M657, M57, or M58. The Ruger Redhawks will take the large bullets and are strong enough to load up to being hairy. I think the Taurus Raging Bull will take the heavy bullets as will the DW.I load the 250grWFNGC to about 1300fps for hunting and have taken elk, black bear, and African plains game with it. It will do for bear defense if you choose wisely.

I have two .41mags, Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8 and a SS Taurus 415 with 2 1/2 barrel. Both are good shooters but there is no doubt the Ruger is the stronger of the two. JOE MACK mentioned cylinder length and he is correct at least for my 415 the cylinder will only allow a carterige length of 1.620" while the Ruger will handle 1.720" length. I personally would feel better with a heavier, therefore a longer, bullet. Since I live in Illinois that is just an opinion. Jim.

I took the plunge and bought a S&W629. Must be some sort of 150 year anniversary limited edition- says 1852-2002 on left side of 3" (yes 3") ported barrel & has Hogue Monogrip. The label on the case says "M629 44MAG 3 6SH S Trail". What can you tell me about this particular setup? How is it different from the "mountain gun"? Were/are lots of them made? Did I pay too much if I paid $685 NIB? I loaded up some 300gr CPB bullets with their recommended W296 load and fired off a dozen rounds to see if I could take the recoil. Also loaded up some 240gr SWC with bullseye for warm-up. Web of my hand got a bit tender, but having never shot a full-tilt 44mag I thought recoil wasn't too terrible. Any after market grips you'd recommend for this outfit to help with the recoil? The back of the grip frame is exposed, so no padding at all for the web of the hand. Fill me in-thanks!

Pharmpoke,
Your S&W differs from a mountain gun in that a mountain gun has a 4" very thin barrel with no proting.
For recoil absorbing grips you could try the Hogue rubber grips made for your gun or you could try the Hogue rubber grips made for the 500 S&W - these have been reported to fit and cover the backstrap with soft recoil absorbing rubber.

Congratulations on you new S&W. Sounds like a good one.

David

David

Phil Shoemaker, an experienced bear guide, wrote on this subject in Handloader magazine, I believe it was.



His opinions were: 1. Penetration above all when it comes to bullet performance 2. Multiple aimed shots are more important than one big, powerful boom. 3. Shots to the central nervous system are the only way to reliably stop a bear quickly. Miss the CNS and you better shoot again.



He used to carry a .357 with either hard cast handloads or hard factory bullets (180 Norma). His daughter has that gun now, and he carries a .44 with hard 240 grainers at a velocity that permits recovery from recoil and an accurate next shot. He argues that the likelihood of a miss on shot #1 is pretty good, so shots #2-6 are pretty important. Shot #2 is difficult with full-house 454, 475, 500, etc.



If his thinking is correct, a .41 mag double action revolver with hard cast LBT or SWC's could be a very useful bear repellent.



I've never killed a bear, so can't say from experience.