I read were a 230 to 250 gr cast at 900 is a good deer load in 45LC so why isn't it a good load in the 45ACP?

I'd happily hunt deer with a .452 230 gr flatnose or JHP @ 900-950 fps under appropriate conditions but the states where I hunt don't allow the 45 ACP. I've shot deer with a .429 240 SWC @ 875 fps (my practice load for my 44 magnum Mtn Gun). It works fine. I haven't used my 45 Colt practice load - a .452 255 SWC @ ~900 fps - on deer yet, but will one of these years. Expect it will work finer.

It would be a good load in the ACP, if it feeds, and if the state allows you to hunt with a semi auto.
Peter

Bullet type comes into play here. The roundnose bullets usually found in ACP loadings are dismal in performance on deer. The SWC bullet type is much better. I have used 255 SWCs loaded in 45 Auto Rim cases in my Moutain Revolver. These loads work well and the deer do not seem to be able to tell the difference between this load and one from a 45 Colt.

Here in NH. We have two sets of rules when it comes to hunting with a hand gun.Many of our southern town ships were stoping rifle hunting and allowing only shotgun, muzzel loader and bow
hunting. After several years and talking to state legislature people I was able to convince them to allow handgun hunting in shot gun towns.
At first only a couple did it. Now they all do.
The law states in shot gun towns you must use a 357,41,44,10mm 45lc or Ruger 480. But in rifle towns the rules are, there are no rules. You can use what ever you want. Includeing auto's of your choice. Check your State carefully. If you can use Aoto Rifles why can't you use auto
pistol. Not powerful enough? nonsence how about
Long slide 45 acp,10 mm and 45 win mag, desert eagles in 357,41,44 mags. Ya there arnt many out there but they are out there.Dont let snow ya you probably can use um if not work to change it. Don't just sit there change it.

I think you are going to be significantly beyond the working pressure of a standard .45 ACP load to get a 250 up to 900 FPS. It may be doable, but I wouldn't bet my Springfield on it...

Any 200-grain cast bullet will do the job on a whitetail if you hit him in the boiler room; a SWC will just hit a bit harder due to the larger frontal area. The problem is going to be making the SWC feed out of a semi, but let's face it: a 7/16" hole through anything living is going to be terminal, if put where it belongs. As has been said before, the rest is just details.

As I recollect, Pa was one state that did not allow semi auto rifles or, presumably, pistols.
Peter.

I have shot a couple of deer with a 45ACP.
A mule deer with a H&G #68 over 7.5gr of Unique, and a whitetail with a IMI Samson load with a 185gr RN at @1000+.
Both worked, but I was not impressed in comparison with deer taken with a 44 Mag.

Bear in mind that the 44 mag is my favorite allround "field gun", but the 45 ACP is my favorite pistol.

Buffalo Bores 230gr FP might be your best choice, or maybe Speer's 225gr HP over 7.5gr of Unique, caution HOT load.

Also Hornady's 200gr XTP at +P velocities might do a good job.

Don't forget that speer makes the gold dot's .
They will expand well.Wih a 200 grn'er you can the vel up in a + p loading

I've tried shooting some 255 SWC in my mostly stock Norinco 1911, and it did 900fps with no probelms. I wouldn't shoot a lot of it though. I do have a 460 Rowland conversion collecting dust, but I watched a buddy shoot some 230 XTP's that actually did 1400+ fps chronoed! Haven't tried the 255 SWC in this yet, but John Taffin did, at some impressive velocities and accuracy to boot! I do have some Northern 300 grain jacketed bullets to test for the 45 ACP? There was a write up on it in Handloader last year. It should thump out of both the 45 ACP and Rowland!

quote:

Buffalo Bores 230gr FP might be your best

It is, I chrongraphed this load out of a pair of 5" 1911's and got 1015 out of one and 1017 out of the other. A very impresive load out of the 45ACP and penetration is outstanding with the flat point

One could also get some .45 Super brass or commercial loads and probably make the 1000 fps mark.

For those of you who have shot deer with loads under 1000 fps...what has the reaction been? Fall down, run a ways...other than a CNS hit that is. I have shot deer with a handgun but it has usually been with 1400-1800 fps .41 and .44 Magnum loads...they fall right down when hit in the lungs.

Bob

I shot a whitetail buck with a 4" 44 and a Keith 240 gr[linotype] bullet at about 25 or 30 yards. I hit him in the top of the heart, he ran about 30 or 35 yards.

I still prefer 240 gr SP or HP bullets for whitetail deer.

Got a buddy who is a ranch owner, hunting guide and handgun hunter, and his favorite loads for handgun hunting is a 45 Colt, with 300 and 335 grain bullet, and doing barely 1000fps. And yes, he has gone through the high velocity hangun loads flying really fast, but he said he and another handgun hunting nut, have noticed that animals(likes to hunt nilgai) seem to get thumped better with the slower velocities, than the faster velocities. They think it might be the dwell time? They were getting technical for me, but often the faster bullets zip through, and more often than not, the bullets tend to get distorted and tend to veer off bone rather than plow straight through with slower bullets. Not sure if I can get them Northern 300 grain bottails jacketed bullets to 900fps through my 1911, but I think I'll have to try and get close.

Dwell Time...
That is an interesting Theory, that the British seemed to have believed in.

I read an article many years ago about WWII handguns chosen by the British that espoused this theory.

MMMMM.... May be something to it. The 308 and the 300 Win Mag are 2 of my favorite hunting cartridges.... But the 9,3x74R seems to be a way quicker killer.... Way quicker.

Think about it....

The Norinco 1911 Copy is supposed to be very strong. I think you could get away with over warm loads with just adding a heavier recoil spring and a shock buff system of some type.
A buddy of mine shot a litte Muley with his 45 and factory 230 Starfire ammo. The deer went maybe 15 yards and fell over. We didn't recover the bullet.
Instead of spending money on Super brass, you might look into the TZZ military surplus brass. It's Izraeli made and very strong. I accidentally pushed some 230 LRN to 1300fps one day. The brass was fine, the Llama needed some help.
If you're going to hunt with the 45acp and cast bullets, look for one with a nice flat nose. It doesn't need to expand, just punch a hole through.

When I got my old Norinco, it had a bad barrel, and some pitting on one side of the slide. Jack Huntington fitted a barrel he found in his parts box. I asked him if I could shoot some warm loads once in a while, and he felt I could, but not a whole lot. He also mentioned the Buffalo Bore ammo. I did the heavy spring thing many years ago, when Ace Hindman was still alive, and back then, only brass that was around, were .308 cases that I cut and inside neck reamed with I reamer I got from Detonics, who used it in I think their .451 Detonics? Anyway, Jack said rather than go with heavy springs to cushion the slide, he prefered to delay the timing so it would lock up slightly longer? He was talking technical, and over my head, but it works. I do have some new 45 Super brass that I had left over, from a Springfield 6" factory 45 Super that I had many years ago. But since I carry this gun mainly, I didn't want to get any ammo mixed up. Figure if I have to hop up my 1911, I could simply slap on the 460 Rowland that I have collecting dust. Have to admit, this old gun doesn't look like much with its factory tiny sights and and pitting on one side, and have had friends laugh at my old gun when they have high end Kimbers, Colts and other custom guns, but when it comes to hitting them 6" steel gongs at 50 yards offhand, they stop laughing at my old gun. On a good day, I dont' miss that much. The bullet I like to use is a RCBS 255 SWC design. LBT made me a gas check mold for a 45 Super I had a while back, and it had a bigger meplat than the one he advertised, but I let it go with the gun when I sold it. Sure wish I still had the mold.

I was chatting with a 1911 smith and he was telling me about the point on the slide that pushes back on the hammer(extractor retaining tab?), lowering that point so it made contact further down the hammer. The extra leverage was supposed to do better than a stronger spring. He said that too heavy of recoil spring could damage the gun by slamming it closed too hard too often.

I guess that is why Jack Huntington suggested I not use heavy springs. Well, my 1911 been working great for all this time, both standard ammo and hot loaded ones. As much as I like to pack and shoot my Norinco, it still won't shoot 340 grainers like my little .45 alloy bisley will. I just need to shoot the little gun more.

quote:

Originally posted by HHI812:
it still won't shoot 340 grainers like my little .45 alloy bisley will.

Alloy Bisley? Do you have an Aluminum alloy Bisley grip frame? I thought they were all made from Steel(the Ruger ones)
I have a 4 5/8" stainless Blackhawk in 45 Colt. It is a nice light gun to pack around. I have a Houge Mono-Grip on mine. I would imagine an alloy grip frame would be even lighter.

I have been bitten by the Magnum Bug for awhile, but have been trying to shoot lighter bullets at more moderate velocities. I stressed the cylinder on my 45 blackhawk trying to get 405's close to 1300(didn't quite get there). It now has a Blued Bisley cylinder in place. I need to remember that just because I can push a bullet faster, it doesn't mean that I have to all the time.

Lar45, the bisleys are made of either stainless or steel. I sort of got into this gun with me wanting a FA 97 45 ACP when the 97 came out. Didn't want a 357 mag, and when the 45 Colt chambering was offered, I figured it would be a simple way to get a 45 ACP. Bad part was, FA told me if I want a 45 ACP, I have to buy a 45 Colt "FIRST", then buy an extra 45 ACP cylinder. This was way beyond what I could afford, so when I told Jack Huntington of my dilemma, he said he could probably put together a light weight 45 ACP for me, and a fraction of the cost of the FA 97. He said if I could get a stainless SBHK frame and cylinder, he said he probably had a take off .45 cal in his gun parts box, along with a bisley grip frame, which he knows I prefer roundbutted. He built me several other guns before, and I always had him round butt them. Anyway, I found a deal on a SS SBHK, and proceeded to take apart my first single action to pieces. I sent Jack the frame and cylinder, and sold the barrel and grip to get some money back. Jack found a FA 454 take off barrel, and a one of a kind alloy bisley grip. He then line bored the cylinder to a 45 ACP. I told him I also had a mess of 45 AR brass, and asked him if he could take metal off the back of the cylinder to make it work? He said he could, but preferred to recess the cylinder instead. I also found a .357 stainless cylinder for a deal, and asked Jack if he could line bore this cylinder to a tight .45 Colt chamber(like a 454 chamber). Then Jack cut the 454 take off barrel to a 3 3/4" lenghth, and tapered and contoured the barrel to lighten it, and installed the FA factory interchangeable front sight base/sight. So when I change cylinders, I change front sight heights, and leave the rear bottomed out. Jack also contoured the cylinders to take off more weight, and took off metal on the frame and gate where he could safely, and flat topped the frame also. He said he got the weight down to 29 ounces with one of the cylinders. I shot my little gun next to a buddy's Ruger all steel birds head grip sherifs model, with 340 grain bullets, and we both hurt with his heavier all steel gun. Even though my gun is lighter, it was very comfortable with the round butt alloy grip. I don't push my 45 loads any more, and stick to 900 fps loads. I usually shoot 45 ACP and AR ammo, and every now and then, the 45 Colt using the RCBS 255 SWC. If I want a heavier load, I have a FA 300 GC mold, along with a 340 GC big meplat bullet I designed, and Veral made for me. Then through another buddy, he just so happened to know Thad Rybka, and he got me one of his high cross draw holsters to fit my little gun.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1008763/bisley2kb.JPG
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1008763/my454bulletweb.JPG

Very nice looking pistol. I'd bet you could pack that all week and never get tired of it.
I've got a 350gn GC mold very similar to yours from www.mountainmolds.com with a 90% nose. They shoot pretty good in the 454, but I haven't shot them much in the 45s.
Here's a pic of my 4 5/8? 45 Blackhawk next to my Seville 45. The Stainless 45 cylinder had undersized throats, but the Bisley's are the right size.

Nice pair of guns! I had a Seville 45 Colt just like yours, but had a bird's head grip instead and a shorter barrel. Oh how I miss it! Also had a 6" United Sporting Arms 454, and although it wasn't as tight as the FA guns, still shot pretty good. Sold it to a buddy, who in turn sold it to his buddy's kid, who is not really into guns. Tried getting it back, but they just want to hang on to it. Now I miss the little FA 454 I sold off too, although don't miss the recoil of shooting some 300 grain 454 loads out of it. It didn't have an ejector hole on the frame on that little shortie. Same story. Just had to let it get away.

I pulled the grips off of the Seville last fall and noticed that someone had written on the inside of the wood, Deer-2 Antelope 3, or something like that. It would be interesting to find out who it came from. I'm glad they didn't start cutting notches in the grips instead.

In a way, its a good sign! You know your gun has harvested game!

i personnaly shoot both a 45acp and a 44 mag. i personnaly wouldnt use a 45 acp on deer as it dosent have the energy at 25-50yds that a 44 mag will. maybe some of you have been lucky to take deer at less than 20 yds. the newer 45 lc or the 44 mag can be loaded to a better energy level, that way in case you cant get a head shot, there will be enough energy to effectivly and humanely kill a deer. just my opinion!

This is an "Apples/Oranges" sort of reply as you guys are talking the acp out of a 1911.

I've loaded Auto Rims with 255 SWC's and even 260 gr LBT's and have achieved 900-950 fps in a 6 1/2" Smith 25-2. Very accurate but have never tried them on a deer. Theoretically they should work fine.

I DO agree that when there's a better tool for the job (.44 mag/.45 Colt) why "experiment".

FN in MT