The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting Nothin great but my first deer with a handgunGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Took a blacktail doe in Trinity County, CA. Thirty yards off hand, doe was at a very slow walk, double action with my Mod 29 Classic, 6 inch bbl integral port. PMC Factory ammo 180 grain JHPs. Bang flop. Shot was a little high and broke her spine. Hunt was a doe management hunt with Arrow 5 Outfitters. If you are looking for a trophy blacktail hunt, this is the place. Counted 51 bucks in one day. Didn't bother with pictures but she wa s nice healthy dry doe. Really interesting to see how the dry does lose their summer coat much sooner than the does with fawns. Standing side by side one doe will be gray and the other will be reddish brown. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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I hope that's the first of many !  Nice to see you didn't need a 300+ gr bullet that's so popular .I always used the old Speer 225 JSWHP which worked fine . | |||
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Great job, Mike!! I hope you are hooked now! I still have a month and a half before I can shoot a deer.......  This is you first game animal with a handgun, is it not? Congratulations!! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Correct Marko first big game animal with a handgun. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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congrats on the kill and the great venison that your eating and im not! | |||
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Congrats Mike on the first of what I hope is many. Good job!! ______________________ Age and Treachery Will Always Overcome Youth and Skill | |||
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Excellent, Mike congradulations....  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Nice going! Hopefully that will be the first of many. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Good job!  We have to wait until Nov to gun hunt. But archery is almost here. | |||
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Good job Mike God Bless Our Troops FU-AC | |||
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This is why I don't like hunting with expanding bullets in my revolvers. These two 240 grain XTPs were recovered from two deer. Both behind the shoulder quartering away shots. Contacted rib cage on the on and off-side, hitting no heavy bone and not exiting. There was so little blood trail that we had a hard time tracking them. While they ultimately worked and killed their intended targets, and expanded impressively, they didn't exit. Good thing they didn't hit any heavy bone. This is why 300 grain hardcasts are popular -- through and through penetration with nice blood trails -- and they break bones.......   "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Here is another reason. These are from my BFR 45-70. At just under 1700 fps the Hornady 300 gr bullet broke up. The 378 gr cast was just damaged a little.  | |||
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Mike Congratulations, well done. Good shooting.  How long you had that 44??? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Whitworth, It all depends on construction. I only recovered one bullet and that went through almost 30" of deer , expanding out to 50 cal !! That's the 225 gr JSWCHP which was not pure lead.They also made a 240 JSWC which would have less expansion.I certainly want full penetration for a blood trail. If I was still handgun hunting deer I think I'd try the Nosler partition or the Barnes all copper. Anyone use those ? | |||
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Mete, true, construction is the key but that means buying expensive bullets. That cuts down on practice and shooting all year. I firmly believe in shooting hunting loads all the time except for a short fun shoot at cans at close range. I see too many friends that get used to light loads go to hell as soon as the harder kicking hunting loads are stuck in their gun. Using the wrong bullet and killing something is just a road to eventual failure. Without buying premium bullet loads, I would not use less then the 300 gr XTP in the .44. Most factory loads are poor penetrators. We did a penetration test which Whitworth will post on. We found that even a hard cast that got a tiny bit of nose damage stopped a LOT faster then one that kept the nose profile perfect, no matter how wide the meplat is. | |||
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Have you ever tried flat-nosed hardcat bullets? Just curious. There was nothing wrong with the construction of those bullets we recovered from those two deer as they stayed together, and even though we didn't weigh them, it doesn't appear they lost any significant weight. The point is that they open up and slow way down, and judging by the fact that they both stopped under the skin on the offside and never encountered anything difficult to punch through, I find them inadequate for anything but a shot such as that presented in this situation. They didn't exit and I have a problem with that. JMHO! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I can't say a whole lot; 'cause I've killed too many deer with the 240 grain XTPs, Remingtons, and Sierras. I do although, shoot behind the shoulder through the ribcage and do not try to break them down. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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I gotta say that I like break bones, and more and more go for the shoulders (on or off-side). They don't run far when you break them down! Yeah, you do some meat damage, but I'm always fighting for freezer spac anyhow...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I weighed both bullets. One weighs 223 gr's and the other is 228 gr's. No great weight loss but they just open too fast and will go to pieces on bone or fail to penetrate with a quartering shot. All the deer I shoot are not perfectly broadside, standing still or close. We can't argue that the 240 bullet won't kill but it is not the best choice. With so many better boolits to choose from, why pick one where you have to have perfect conditions for every shot? Why not just use the 300 XTP? It is just as accurate as the 240. Marko shot the RD 265 gr boolit through 33" of wet phone books and newspaper. The entrance hole was a huge, puckered volcano and inside damage was severe. Every jacketed bullet we shot just made an entrance hole, bullet size. Jacketed bullets had trouble making 11", even the 45-70 only went that deep. I sure wish we had some 180 gr bullets to test, but neither of us will buy them. They are .357 weight! My belief is that a boolit that will drop a buffalo, moose, bear, pig or any other big game is also perfect for deer or even a fox. I shot a fox running past me with the 320 gr LBT WLNGC and the boolit slammed the fox right to the ground and it never quivered. Good grief, why use a different boolit/bullet for every animal? Why use any bullet that COULD fail? | |||
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I like one bullet to do it all, that's why I prefer and recommend a wide meplat flat point hardcast. Kills'em at big little short or tall _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Mike_Dettorre good job.. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Tony, I have only had that 44 about 3 months. It balances quite well for me. I sighted it in with six rounds of factory ammo and then fired a cylnder full of double action and then went hunting. I can honestly say the deer was killed with the 13th bullet out of the gun. I sighted it 2 inches high at 25 and called it good. Normally I would practice a lot more but after so many qualification sessions with a revolver I felt very comfortable. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike I knew you had not had that revolver very long, good shooting. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Oh well, that was back in the day and being 21 for 21, it couldn't have been too bad a set-up. Mike, congrats on the first of hopefully many handgun game animals. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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MS, they DO kill but the deer I shot had such poor blood trails that if I had not seen them fall, I would have had a tracking job I don't like. I have a habit of back trailing every deer to see what the trail looks like. Those I killed with either bullets or arrows that did not make two holes can't even be tracked easily back to where they were hit. Many of my deer are shot late in the evening. I don't like crawling around looking for little specks of blood with a fishing lantern. You can shoot a deer in the heart with a .223 too, but will you find it after it runs 100 yd's? I not only want a big hole, I want TWO big holes. The exit bleeds a lot more then the entrance. It didn't take more then a couple of deer with the 240 XTP to change my mind. No, I didn't lose any but that is not the point when there are better boolits. I won't stay with anything that is marginal. | |||
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Obviously they work, but I just don't like the uncertainty. I prefer using a bullet that will punch through the animal from any and every angle no matter what it encounters. But that's just me.......  Again, Mike, good job!! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I've shot deer with XTP's, Freedom Arms JFP's, and Nosler PT/HG's from my .454 Casull. All have passed completely through, I've never had to do any tracking, but from my experience the XTP's do a lot more internal damage. I think the other two are just too heavily constructed to reliably expand on thin skinned game minus a shoulder hit. With the FA and the Nosler bullet, exit wounds looked liked entry wounds, with the Hornady there was evidence of good expansion. Like I said, I have yet to recover a bullet so there is little evidence of actual bullet performance-that is, other than venison in the freezer. Praise be to the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. | |||
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The 300 gr .44 XTP and the .45 XTP for the .454 are tougher bullets yet expand very well without losing penetration. Plus you have the extra weight. The 240 gr .44 is VERY fast opening. Mine all stopped with only 1/4" left to get a second hole and they were broadside shots through the rib cage. If the deer were just a little smaller, they would have gone through. Internal damage was actually less then the WLN and WFN boolits because of the sudden slow down of the bullet. Just a step up to the tougher XTP cures the problem. | |||
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Way to Mike Now you are gonna be hooked. Something fun about getting up close and personal with the criiters you kill. I love it! I only have a handfull maybe two handfulls of hand gun kills, but can recount every one to you. It's just a whole different ball game. MM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.../watch?v=qVQc386js7g www.setfreesoldiers.com www.soldiermade.com Montana Maddness Set Free Ministries MT. 7 days with out meat makes one Weak! | |||
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Well, I just talked to a lady about permission to hunt tonight! So hopefully, I will be posting a similar story in a few months! | |||
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