In Ohio we can't use rifles and have the following limitation on handguns for deer hunting: : "handgun with 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger." I hunt in places where it would be nice to be able to take a 250+ yard shot. I'm thinking of getting a TC Encore in whatever cartridge would give me the greatest range, least recoil, and be Ohio legal. Any ideas?

I'd go with a .44 Magnum. And if you're still open to other handguns, I'd consider an SW Classic 8 3/8" Model 629 in .44 Magnum with a scope. For ammo I'd go with 240 grainers from either Cor-Bon, Speer or Hornady at 1475, 1400 or 1350 fps respectively. I wouldn't use anything less for reaching out to 100 yds. I'd shoot it from a rest position (like a knapsack or stump) and with plenty of practice first, you should be able to consistently cleanly kill deer at 100 yds with that set-up. Then, there's also the .45 (warmly loaded), .454, .460 (a good choice for long range), .475, .480 and .500. Those have the reach. Whichever, you'll need a scope. And to accomplish cleanly and consistently taking deer at 100 yds with a handgun, you MUST be able to tolerate some recoil.

However, personally I think 250+ for deer with a handgun is a REALLY bad idea. Under field conditions the accuracy won't be there, excepting a once in a while fluke hit.

If it wasn't for the straight wall deal and caliber limit, I'd say .243 Win. Seems like I've heard of handguns for it.

45-70, 444, 375 winchester,500 Alaskan,475. JDJ, 405, straight walled and over 357. 357 Max
The 375, 405, and 444 will be flatest shooting.
Or go to the older "buffalo" or English rounds. Encores are tough.
Brain phart you said low recoil..............357 Max or 375 loaded down, braked or both. Sorry I forgot the low part.

257x50 -- PM sent......

That is a LONG, LONG, LONG way for any straight wall case. Drop will be out of sight.
Get a good .44 mag revolver or up and get closer to the deer.
I shoot a 45-70 and .475 revolver to 500 meters and drop is something like 26 FEET or more, I can't measure it.
A .44 revolver with the proper boolit will drop about 35" at 200 yards, the 45-70, 16" and the .475, 18".
You will run out of sight adjustments on most open sights and scopes too, depending on the boolit used.
I hunted Ohio since I was born there and never had a problem killing deer with a .45 flintlock.

what size groups do you run @500m?which is most accurate ctge @ that range in your experience?Thanks.

GADZOOKS!!!
What happened to low recoil?????
I love big bores so maybe the OP just got bit by the BIGBORE BUG.
Welcome to the herd!!!!

Sounds like you need a tar-hunt shotgun, or the deerslayer III with a great scope, and plenty of practice. Either of those combinations will get you close to 200 yds with practice. Skip the straight wall pistol idea for anything over 100 yards, unless your an Elmer Keith disciple.
Mike73

The 357 Maximum in a Thompson Contender or Encore witha 180 or 200 grain flat point hard cast will get to job done if you are up to the 200 yard shots

personally you should be able to get alot closer then 250 yards.and at what ever range you decide you are will to take a shot practice at that distance

Thanks for the responses. I'm currently hunting with a .44 Mag. Ruger Super Redhawk with a 9 1/2" barrel and a red dot sight. I have taken deer at just over 100 yards with it. I've kind of assumed that's the ethical limit for that setup. I can't prone out over my backpack because the gases from the cylinder gap cut my last pack. That's why I'm thinking a single shot Encore or Contender. I'd like to stay away from the really large calibers since I don't want a muzzle break and the resulting hearing loss. I had thought of the .357 max as mentioned above. I kind of though there might be some super stretched out .357 case like a 38/70 or something like that. I'm not sure it would even make sense to stretch out a .38 caliber case that long. I'm open to wildcats. Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Mark K:
Thanks for the responses. I'm currently hunting with a .44 Mag. Ruger Super Redhawk with a 9 1/2" barrel and a red dot sight. I have taken deer at just over 100 yards with it. I've kind of assumed that's the ethical limit for that setup. I can't prone out over my backpack because the gases from the cylinder gap cut my last pack. That's why I'm thinking a single shot Encore or Contender. I'd like to stay away from the really large calibers since I don't want a muzzle break and the resulting hearing loss. I had thought of the .357 max as mentioned above. I kind of though there might be some super stretched out .357 case like a 38/70 or something like that. I'm not sure it would even make sense to stretch out a .38 caliber case that long. I'm open to wildcats. Thanks

IMHO the ethical distnace is the distance that YOU can put a bullet in the kill zone.

In 86 or 87 when I was shooting my revolvers a lot and my eyes were much better I killed a crribou witha 310 grain grain LFN at 1240 FPS from my 45 Colt at an estimated 150 yards

On the backpack issue, I solved a problem like that when shooting magnums at the range by carrying along a gas shield in the form of an old rubber automobile floor mat to rest the gun on. Anything obviously would do the same job that you didn't care if it got cut, burned, melted, smoked or otherwise destroyed...just an idea, because if that's a problem it's certainly easy to fix.

I don't know how you feel about hanging a scope on a handgun (I did it on my SW 629 only) but am personally not real crazy about the concept. However, add that to the mix and it sounds like you're already there.

As far as hearing loss, you need excellent ear protection no matter what kind of large bore handgun, muzzle brake or no. You can probably guess how I found that out.

Mark K:
A wildcat......blow out a 5.6x50R and trim to required 357 LongAsYaWant length.

Rimmed, Small Rifle Primer, and just short of 2 inches long.
Try blowing a 223 out and you get the idea.
It is about the same increase over the the 357 Max as the Max is over the 38 special case capacity wise.
Your results may vary...........

I really like your idea 257x50. Any idea of who could make a custoum die and chamber reamer for that?

quote:

Posted 03 December 2010 20:54 Hide Post
what size groups do you run @500m?which is most accurate ctge @ that range in your experience?Thanks.

I once had 4 shots in 2-1/2" at 500 yards with my 45-70 BFR. I kept 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 yards with my .475 BFR, shooting Creedmore.
I have kept all shots on a steel ram at 500 meters with both guns. But I had to aim at a tree branch way over the target after walking in shots with a spotter seeing hits.
I use cast WLN and WFN boolits. Accuracy is there but drop is out of sight.
Another thing about the big bores without ports is that the noise is not as bad as the fast, smaller calibers. More of a big boom instead of the ear cracking blast. I have shot the .475 at deer many times without ear muffs and never had ringing ears.
Accuracy is in the gun and loads so there is none better then another.
Even in a single shot using a revolver caliber, you still have drop because there is almost no difference in velocity. Some revolvers can be faster then a single shot.
A deer at 100 yards is looking really small so without a rifle and good scope, farther is out of the question and only a stunt.
It can be done with a single shot with a rifle caliber and a high power scope from a rest but Ohio does not allow it until the caliber is large enough and I do not remember if any rifle caliber is legal. I think they have to be straight wall cases.
The best is still a .44 and let the deer get closer. Even the .475 or .500's will not extend range much because of being able to hit where you shoot.
I never stunt shoot at game and a 20 yard shot does not make a hunter look bad, it makes him more ethical.
Think of a revolver as one step above a bow as far as distance.

Bfrshooter is right on target. I tell new hunters to go shoot deer with a BB gun. The cheaper the better.
It teaches the guy to get close. Won't hurt the deer and teaches the guy quick. And you can practice all year.

Mark K;
Teach me to give ideas!!!!! :-)
Let's look at the problems with my hairbrain ideam
Check the rim thickness, I don't remember. 357 is .060.
Brass is pricey if you shoot a lot.
Like rechambering a TC barrel from Mag to Max with a rimless 357 Mag reamer. Same here. Likewise with the dies. 357 Max would work.
The base of 5.6x50 is a couple of thou smaller. Its brass, it will breath. If cases need full sizing, cut off the top of a 38/357 carbide die and you should be in business.
And now I have to get some brass before it gets more scarce.
And I am looking for a Contender to try this.
Anyone got one for sale?
Might .......
Sorry, I'm rambling now.
Let me know.

This is just an idea for someone to talk to about your project - http://www.sskindustries.com/encore.htm

Also, you could ask TC directly if they could do a .357 Max barrel. I know they still had a reamer for the .44 AMP when I inquired about that so they probably have other unusual calibers.

In just a brief internet search on 5.6x50R, it appears the brass is very spendy.

And, not to be repetitive, but I agree with bfrshooter that a .44 Mag with shots limited out to around a 100 is the best advice.

Find a TC, buy a Super 14" barrel in 357 Mag and get it stretched to 357 Max. Honest 200-yard handgun round, and recoil is very manageable. In short, what JWP said...

bfrshooter,Thanks.must have been at least a little luck in Elmer K's famous(infamous?)shot!

quote:

Posted 05 December 2010 23:12 Hide Post
bfrshooter,Thanks.must have been at least a little luck in Elmer K's famous(infamous?)shot!

Not so much luck with Elmer. He knew his distance and used open sights. He could keep the front sight on an animal but would elevate it above the rear sight even to the point of having a lot of barrel showing too.
He still had to walk in shots if he could see the impact.
Hard to do with a scope or dot, not enough adjustment and it gets hard to see a target under everything.
I do it by aiming at a certain branch way up a tree and can't see the target so I depend on a spotter. In open country I would be barking at the moon!
Wind does crazy things to revolver boolits too and you need to watch them through a scope sometimes at long range.
I just want to show that accuracy is good but there are so many other problems that it is best to shoot much closer when hunting.
A deer at 100 yards looks real, real small and though I have done it a few times, I still don't like the distance and don't make a shot unless I am sure I am steady enough. Harder as we get older. With a rest and certain calibers, I could hit deer at 200 but a shooting bench is hard to carry around.
My boolit in the .44 drops 35", the .475 drops 18" and the 45-70 drops 16" at 200 so I can hit cans if I rest and aim the proper height. Even shooting sticks are not steady enough for me, I have to shoot from bags or Creedmore, both not easy positions when hunting so that leaves sitting with knees or off hand.
My long range shooting is done from Creedmore, very steady but can't shoot over weeds and grass. Need a blast shield too.
We don't have food plots where deer stand and eat, they move all the time so even sitting with sticks need constant adjustment and movement. Shots come quick and fast so I say, be practical instead of thinking about extending range.
Remember that 500 meters is 547 yards and I think a revolver loaded properly would hit a target as far as 1000 yards, but what practical use is it other then to prove they will shoot that far? You need to avoid airplanes flying over!

The 414 super mag will do what you need..if you can

Long range deer pistol.I think either a 10 357 max Ruger or Dan Wesson loaded to the max with 180 gr Hornady XTPS or a Contender with a 357 maxium or a 375 win with a 16" barrel would be my choice.I have shot my 357 maxium out to 200 yards alot at targets but not game.I try to get as close as possible or let them come to me.If you hunt the trails and get on rub or scrap lines they will get right under you.I shot my 9 and 8 pointer both under 15 feet away this year.That is when a revolver really shines .I would limit my shots on deer with the 357 maxium revolver to around 150 yards 175 max.I have loads that go 1700 fps out of my Dan Wesson with the 180 gr Hornady .Its around 1900 fps out of a 14" barrel contender.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
The 357 Maximum in a Thompson Contender or Encore witha 180 or 200 grain flat point hard cast will get to job done if you are up to the 200 yard shots

Great round for his list of criteria. Long distance and not much recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by 257x50:
Bfrshooter is right on target. I tell new hunters to go shoot deer with a BB gun. The cheaper the better.
It teaches the guy to get close. Won't hurt the deer and teaches the guy quick. And you can practice all year.

I have never lived anywhere that this would be legal.


When I lived in Alaska there was a guy that killed a calf moose with a 22 cal pellet rifle. He said he thought it would just bounce off.

R miller;
A single cock Daisey ain't gonna hurt ANY deer. Eye. Shots excluded.
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I also don't think shooting deer with a cheap BB gun is defined in many laws. Maybe under bothering them.
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The point was to get people to hunt by getting closer.

I read about a bunch that were shooting deer with blunts and those big small game tips on arrows for fun and practice, figuring they would do little damage. However, many dead deer were found with broken ribs, etc. They got in big trouble.
Even a deer or any animal shot with a pellet can get infected and die after much suffering.
Please leave the animals alone until you hunt them with clean kills.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Even a deer or any animal shot with a pellet can get infected and die after much suffering.
Please leave the animals alone until you hunt them with clean kills.

Must be a hell of a powerful pellet gun

On BB guns, cheap Daisey BB guns:
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Reminds me of John Candy as a guard at Wally World in "Vacation" after Chevy Chase had forced his way in with a BB pistol:
"You could cause a welt, maybe get infected!"
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And to all who beleived it in "A Christmas Story":
"You'll put your eye out!"
"You'll put your eye out!"
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Get a grip. Ever try to kill any thing that weighed more than 2 pounds with a BB gun?????
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And had to beat it to death doesn't count..................

Definately falls under harrassing game.

I would think shooting them with a paintball gun would be way better. But still illegal as heck.

RMiller;
Let's back up......
Typing on a phone is a pain. Talking on the phone is better.
Talking over a beer is even better.
.
PAX
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Typing on the phone means you shorten thoughts and don't explain yourself.
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I'll try to do better.
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The BB gun thing was said about 50 years ago by a mentor. Time frame is needed.
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It was part of a talk about hunting and shots.
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"Most hunters would be better off "hunting" deer with a BB gun during the year instead of only hunting during hunting season.
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He meant: learn to get in close for a good shot and then you have less chance of hitting.
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I'd never seen a scope on a hunting rifle.
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The BB gun part was meant to give an idea about how close you would have to get. If you took a BBgun or not meant little.
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Thinking back over this, maybe I said it a little better......
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If he was into archery he might have used that analogy.
.
Clearer?

To answer the original question: cut the range in half and you're being more realistic IMO. I shoot a 10" T/C Contender in .44 mag and wouldn't hesitate to take just about any shot inside of 125 yards or so with it. Further than that, forget it. You might stretch it to 150 yards with a .357 max and hot loads.

Really though, how hard is it to get within 125 yards of a deer? People kill them with bows all the time. Just get closer. I can count on my fingers the number of deer I've shot over 150 yards hunting in western PA in terrain that's pretty similar to Ohio.

Doubless is on the right track with the 357 Maximum in a long barreled Contender. Still not sure that it"ll be a 200-250 yd gun....maybe. My straight walled Contender is a 445 SuperMag in a 14' with muzzle brake. A must as this thing ir really wicked in the recoil dept. Now I'm not a huge Mike Bellm fan but he has some straight walled calibers that might get you out there. One is 44cal in a straightened 358Win brass. It's halfway between 445 SM and 444Marlin. He's high on the 357Maximum and may have a version that is longer and more powerful as well. Be assured that these calibers all have quite a bark and are truly a handful. There is one called a 270Ren which is 223 brass opened up straightwalled to accept 270 bullets. Not sure how much horsepower they pack but you could shot good quality rifle bullets, something others have killed deer with before. Best cure is to give up the 250yd idea and just get closer. Pressure your legislature to change the stupid caliber restriction. Killed my last deer with a long barreled T/C in 35Rem. Bang, dead, 100yds. Also if you go with 358. the 180gr Hornady single shot pistol bullet is dandy. Good luck

I believe the 270 ren is on the Hornet case if memory serves correctly and is not .357 diameter so would not be an OHIO legal deer caliber. The max will get ya out to 200 if ya can shoot well. I believe the Bellm round mentioned is on the 356 Win case as it is rimmed. Perhaps he also does it on a rimless 358 win case as well. The recoil of either may be more than the OP desires however. The super mag series are good choices in straight wall rounds in the Contender/Encore platform and all work well in revolvers as well. Good choices there from mild to wild in the recoil dept

I think the hardware you are using is good . add a heavy leather blast shield for your pack . If I were to build a handgun for down south hunting , I would have your srh turned into a 5 shot 475 Linebaugh . basically duplicate Whit,s 475 .
Then just accept the range limitations .
Or go the 45/70 BFR route .
A handgun isn,t a bean field rifle . .Do the bucks respond to calling . Thats how I bring Sitka Blacktails in close . .

I have not seen any one say the Smith and Wesson 460 mag ... my friend has one with the 8 3/8 barrle a warren base and rings and a Luapold VX-III 2.5-8 and has hit milk jugs at 200 with no issue with the Horandy 200gr SST ammo like 2200-2300FPS and the recoil is not to bad .. my 5" S&W 629 has more felt recoil I think .. but the Muzzle blast from the 460 S&W mag is big I think that is what makes most not like it

Now you can also get it in a Pro Hunter by Thompson Center arms with a 15" barrel now just think of the speed you can get from a 15" barrel single shot ... I bet 2450fps would be easy
and have a brake put on it or porting now you have something I would shoot 250 yards with ...

You have a straightwall limit, that means you are restricted to magnum handgun or the 375win or 45-70. I have a 375win, great hunting round to 200yds. Beyond that, it's unrealstic for field positions for about 99% of the shooters. For 150yds & less, any of the magnum handgun rounds will do the job if you can. I would lean to a 41mag or 44mag, 357max would work too.
I hunt w/ a 7 1/2" RBHBH in 444mag. I am accurate enough to make 100yd called shots form field positions. It's not about hitting the deer but cleanily killing it. No disrespect to EK, but his shot was meant as a hope & a prayer to stop a wounded deer, not hunting them.

I have a Contender with a 375 Win 14" barrel that my last 3 shot group at 300 yds was 2.312" with Barnes 235 grain TSX's. This was off of a bench though.

God Bless, Louis

Maybe look at the 35 cal Rem 150gn PSP Core Lokt and load them in a 357 max? Barrels for Contenders are occasionally on GenBroker. IF not, then get a 357 mag and rechamber.
You could go with a 357 Max revolver.
A 375 Win would give pleanty case capacity and still be in a smallish caliber to get a pointy-ish bullet for the long range shots.
I'd love to find a 375 barrel for my Contender. Or find the time to finish my 375 Atomic on a Blackhawk.