Hello

I have a question for the handgun experts. Will the Ruger Super Redhawk 454 handle the same loads as the Freedom arms 83?

Thank You

In my opinion it will.

My FA, Ruger SuperRed, and Taurus Raging Bull all handle the same loads without any problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Coloradoyaler:
Hello

I have a question for the handgun experts. Will the Ruger Super Redhawk 454 handle the same loads as the Freedom arms 83?

Thank You

Yes

I have about 60 PROOF LOADS from Freedom Arms. Don't ask how I got them. I'll have to think about the liabilities, but I might be persuaded to let a few of them wander off if you want to see what your wheelgun is made of.........

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
I have about 60 PROOF LOADS from Freedom Arms. Don't ask how I got them. I'll have to think about the liabilities, but I might be persuaded to let a few of them wander off if you want to see what your wheelgun is mad of.........

Why would one want to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
I have about 60 PROOF LOADS from Freedom Arms. Don't ask how I got them. I'll have to think about the liabilities, but I might be persuaded to let a few of them wander off if you want to see what your wheelgun is mad of.........

PM on the way!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
I have about 60 PROOF LOADS from Freedom Arms. Don't ask how I got them. I'll have to think about the liabilities, but I might be persuaded to let a few of them wander off if you want to see what your wheelgun is mad of.........

PM on the way!

If you're intending to put those through your 4" redhawk, there needs to be video. Preferably in waning light...

Thanks for all the responses! I'll be interested in the result from you guys when you run the proof loads through your guns. I hope one will be a super redhawk!

Another question, does the 454 really hit much hard than a 44mag with the respective bullets? I mean, is the impact on the animals noticable?

Thanks

In my humble opinion, the .454 gives you more blast, recoil, and noise over a heavily loaded .45 Colt, but terminally, I think its a wash. I prefer the Colt, personally. But I don't load my .45 Colts like the original black powder variant or cowboy action-type loads, either. However, I have owned a .454 in one iteration or another for more than a dozen years as I find them fun to play with. They kill well when loaded properly, with bullets able to withstand the additional velocity.

I had a very interesting conversation with the late Marty Smith years ago when he was the marketing director for FA. I had had a bit of involvement in the creation of their 654 Silhouette, and was at the Freedom factory in the fall of 1997.

The story he told was that what was used to test the prototypes was nothing more than hot handloads dreamed up by the staff. I guess things have changed, but he told me the prototype guns were a six round revolver, and they tried to blow them up. Then the production gun was built with a five-chamber cylinder, for an added safety margin. One of the things he told me was "One of us will load the rounds, and someone else shoots them. We have all been where no man has gone before...". Somehow, knowing the reputation the FAs have for strength, I belive what he told me. FWIW, I have chronographed 1800 fps out of my 10-1/2" 654 using the NEI 411-275 SSK. (That revolver has a 1 in 14" twist, which jacks pressures up even more...) Try that with a "normal" 41 Magnum!

He might have been pulling my leg, but he told me that during development of their Model 83 in the Casull, the ACP cylinder they cut for the revolver saw 2k fps out of a 230 JRN. When I asked him what load they were using he told me "A little bit of Bullseye." And he smiled.

Dick Casull's triplex loads saw nearly 2,000 fps from a 230 grain bullet that was designed for an ACP.

37gr H110 with a 260gr produces over 2000fps and no adverse pressure signs.

As far as "a little bit of Bullseye" I believe the recipe is 7-10gr Bullseye on the primer topped with 25gr H110 and a heavily jacketed 260gr bullet. Which personally scares the tar outta me! I don't care if mine held together at the factory I ain't shootin' this in any of my pistols!

Actually, Dick told me it was 2 grains of Unique, 25 grains of 2400, and 3 grains of Bullseye, and I actually saw some published loading data saying the same thing. Scary indeed!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Actually, Dick told me it was 2 grains of Unique, 25 grains of 2400, and 3 grains of Bullseye, and I actually saw some published loading data saying the same thing. Scary indeed!!!!

Same here. That load is published in Parker Otto's book. Hoping all know who I am referring to. I also believe this load used a 230gr .451 ACP bullet. What I am not certain of is barrel length and case. Some of the original loads were done in 45Colt brass. This load will fit in Colt brass. I am also not familiar with the order in which the powders are introduced to the case. I imagine putting them in the incorrect order could be disastrous.

The Ruger Super Redhawk is an incredibly strong revolver. I imagine it will handle the same loads. However, be forewarned that some of the initial loads developed by Dick are in the 82,000psi range! It is written that these loads are only safe in Freedom Arms guns. I believe industry standard is around 65,000psi. I have a signed article stating a 300gr jacketed bullet from a 6" barrel doing a bit over 1600fps. 300gr@1600 is a relatively mild load in my model 83. I have stepped it up to the point of downright discomfort. I really need to chrony those loads. I had a well know ammo maker develop what they call Max-Safe-Pressure loads specifically for my gun. I have been told it is an extremely bad decision to shoot them in anything else, and might I add my elbow and shoulder hurt after 10 rounds.

Just remember, the size of the frame on the SRH is not the problem as it is the strength of the cylinder that matters since that is the weak link. You have a 5 shot vs a 6 shot cylinder comparison and the FA is quite a bit stronger than the SRH. I would not want to find out if the SRH can handle FA proof loads.

I am left wondering why in the Hell anyone would want to shoot true Proof Loads in their gun.

From my experience, the Ruger will not handle the same loads as the FA, but then, that's from shooting them side by side. You can't GIVE me a SRH after that experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
Just remember, the size of the frame on the SRH is not the problem as it is the strength of the cylinder that matters since that is the weak link. You have a 5 shot vs a 6 shot cylinder comparison and the FA is quite a bit stronger than the SRH. I would not want to find out if the SRH can handle FA proof loads.

The SRH's cylinder is made from 465 Carpenter steel and the proof testing Ruger subjected it to leads me to believe that it will take anything and everything the FA can take even though it is a 6-shot configuration. But, the question why enters the picture now! I have shot loads in the upper end of the spectrum extensively, and they are unpleasant to say the least, and probably not any more effective than lower-pressure loads that don't move the earth off of its axis every time you touch them off.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
37gr H110 with a 260gr produces over 2000fps and no adverse pressure signs.

As far as "a little bit of Bullseye" I believe the recipe is 7-10gr Bullseye on the primer topped with 25gr H110 and a heavily jacketed 260gr bullet. Which personally scares the tar outta me! I don't care if mine held together at the factory I ain't shootin' this in any of my pistols!

I bought a Ruger Super RedHawk in 454 Casull when they first came out, long story short I used Freedom arms load data, I still have the paper they sent me.

It pushed the 260 grain bullet at 2001 fps. I did not have a chance to verify FA velocity claim in their data, as my Ruger Super Redhawk broke on the second cylinder full! It was skipping rounds on the first. It did twice as good as my Raging bull, that broke on the first cylinder!

But why did it break? If the cylinder didn't blow, I would suspect that something else was ailing it.

If the 465 Carpenter Technology alloy was so strong, why did Ruger discontinue the 480 Ruger in the SRH ( I have one in 6 shot)? They even discontinued the 5 shot version of the 480 very quickly, which should have been quite strong so the question is WHY? Perhaps they felt it was not as strong as first thought....maybe a KABOOM or two took place and they thought better of it. Any insight to this as far as strength goes?

They never stopped building the .480 actually. I have a brand new one -- 6 shot cylinder and all -- right here. The Target Gray finish is gone now, but it's the same revolver. Also the .454s, by virtue of the thicker cylinder walls has an even stronger cylinder. There was never any issue with strength.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
But why did it break? If the cylinder didn't blow, I would suspect that something else was ailing it.

The cylinder went out of time, and would not lock up. I sent them both in for repairs and sold them. I had no business running those loads in a DA revolver, but I was young and stubborn. I still have dies and a ton of brass for the 454, I think its great cartridge, I just never warmed up to single action revolvers, so I let it be.

Whitworth, where can I buy a .480? I thought they were discontinued also.

quote:

Originally posted by doubledown:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
But why did it break? If the cylinder didn't blow, I would suspect that something else was ailing it.

The cylinder went out of time, and would not lock up. I sent them both in for repairs and sold them. I had no business running those loads in a DA revolver, but I was young and stubborn. I still have dies and a ton of brass for the 454, I think its great cartridge, I just never warmed up to single action revolvers, so I let it be.

Whitworth, where can I buy a .480? I thought they were discontinued also.

I am afraid that something else was amiss and it had nothing to do with the severity of the loads or the strength of the gun itself. What exactly went wrong as they don't "just go out of time?" Sounds more like an issue with bolt float -- or the cylinder stop disengaging when you fire the gun. Not a strength issue.

I have posted a link to Carpenter's website and an article about the SRH and the steel they used and one test gun absorbed 300 rounds of 92,000 psi proof loads without a whimper. I can bet that FA's loads didn't come within 30,000 psi of proof loads.

http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1608

Not trying to be combative, but I have delved quite deeply into this topic.

I got the .480 SRH directly from Ruger.

I have the load data paper from freedom arms right in front of me. It says loading recommendations "for only the Freedom Arms 454 Casull"

I had to give them a serial number off one of their revolvers to get them to mail it to me. (it was in the 1990s)

The load is FA 260JFP 3*.0 grains H110 2005 fps 53,800 cup

The load made both revolvers skip a shot and fall back on a fired cylinder, I can't remember all the details, I know neither revolver would shoot 45 lc after a cylinder of those, something was broke. Nothing blew up, it just wouldn't spin the cylinder when the trigger was pulled.

If you still question the load data, pm me I can copy and scan it to you. I know this is the internet, but im not much of a liar.

You're misreading what I have said here. FA is covering their butts as these are loads they know are safe in their revolvers. The SRH came much later. I don't doubt you or your load data one bit. Keep in mind that the SAAMI max on the .454 is 65,000 psi. 54,000 cup doesn't exceed acceptable standards IMO. The problem you experienced with your SRH I will bet had nothing to do with the weight of your loads. I have two .454s -- an FA83 and a hybrid Redhawk with the cylinder out of a .454 SRH and they swallow the same fodder without issue.

Again, not doubting you or your load data. I am familiar with FA's load data. I believe you are simply attributing the problems you experienced with your two DA revolvers with high pressure loads, when it was likely something else.

I come in peace, man!

quote:

Originally posted by doubledown:
I have the load data paper from freedom arms right in front of me. It says loading recommendations "for only the Freedom Arms 454 Casull"

I had to give them a serial number off one of their revolvers to get them to mail it to me. (it was in the 1990s)

The load is FA 260JFP 3*.0 grains H110 2005 fps 53,800 cup

The load made both revolvers skip a shot and fall back on a fired cylinder, I can't remember all the details, I know neither revolver would shoot 45 lc after a cylinder of those, something was broke. Nothing blew up, it just wouldn't spin the cylinder when the trigger was pulled.

If you still question the load data, pm me I can copy and scan it to you. I know this is the internet, but im not much of a liar.

The problem that you experienced is a problem that is caused by poor execution of the assembly of the revolver. The loads that you quote are not over pressure for the 454. The problem that you experienced is more inherit to double action revolvers than single action, in my experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
You're misreading what I have said here. FA is covering their butts as these are loads they know are safe in their revolvers. The SRH came much later. I don't doubt you or your load data one bit. Keep in mind that the SAAMI max on the .454 is 65,000 psi. 54,000 cup doesn't exceed acceptable standards IMO. The problem you experienced with your SRH I will bet had nothing to do with the weight of your loads. I have two .454s -- an FA83 and a hybrid Redhawk with the cylinder out of a .454 SRH and they swallow the same fodder without issue.

Again, not doubting you or your load data. I am familiar with FA's load data. I believe you are simply attributing the problems you experienced with your two DA revolvers with high pressure loads, when it was likely something else.

I come in peace, man!

My bad, as you were. Carry on Marine.

the raging bull is a different animal. the pawl pushes in on the cylinder and "locks" it up on the raging bull when gun is fired and the trigger is depressed. the ruger locks up in a different way. i have had a few raging bulls not lock up in this way and loosen rapidly. the only problem i've had with a ruger is that the cylinder can be machined rough and if the brass backs out at all it can stick and tie up the cylinder from moving correctly. haven't seen this in a ruger in any production in over 10 years though.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Dick Casull's triplex loads saw nearly 2,000 fps from a 230 grain bullet that was designed for an ACP.

I've shot that load back in the day

quote:

Originally posted by Coloradoyaler:
Hello

I have a question for the handgun experts. Will the Ruger Super Redhawk 454 handle the same loads as the Freedom arms 83?

Thank You

I talked to a man at the gun show selling Freedom Arms hand guns. He said only the FA revolvers were made to withstand their cartridges. He claimed to be one of the people to have designed the FA hand guns.
I have a 8" Stainless Steel Raging Bull in 454 Casull and I will not shoot even the top loads in it.
When I go over 1600fps with 250gr Hornady XTP Mag bullets it kicks enough to make my hand hurt and I am not into pain.
Take it for what it is worth I am only saying what I was told.

Swede, unless his name was Dick Casull, I'm pretty sure he didn't help design the FA 83.

Back in my stupider days...
I was trying to get 405's, sized to .452", to shoot in my 6.5" Raging Bull.
The bullets were key holeing at lower velocities, so I tried upping the velocity to see if it would help. I got them up to 1500fps, using 296, before I stopped. They never would fly straight.
Looking back at it now and having quickload it seems that I was somewhere in the 80k range.
The gun still shoots fine, it loves 350's at 1350, so that's what I feed it.