My 44 mag is a interarms verginia dragoon with a 8 3/8" barrel. I want to use this pistol this year to hunt. I am thinking about either the 265 flat point or the 300 XTP. Has anyone had experience with these bullets?
The 300's shoot 1 1/4" or better with open sights at 25 yards. My question is centered around bullet expansion on deer sized game. Thanks, Ron

Can't tell you much about how those bellets expand, but I can tell you in a 44 you do not need expansion. I use cast bullets that do not expand and have excellent results.

As a general rule the bullet manufaturers make the heavier bullets stronger and therefore they offer less expansion. The heavier ones also tend to go slower therefore decreasing expansion. If you want more expansion go with the lighter bullet at faster fps.

Sorry I could not help with first hand experience.
I am sure someone will offer some shortly.

David

I've taken a number of deer a 44 mag revolver (7.5in RH) The bullets you mentioned will certainly work, but are more than heavy enough. I like the Hornady 240 XTP - it is quite tough, and, in my experience, acts more like a cast in lung shots. For penetrating at quartering angles or bigger bone, the 240 will holds up very well. It is also very accurate. 2400 (thanks David), W296/H110, and AA#9 will all easily give 1350 fps.

Either of the bullets you mention will work very well on deer. Just go with whichever one gives the better accuracy. I've killed over two dozen deer with various bullets and have yet to loose one to poor bullet performance. I will say though, stay away bullets weighing less than 240 grains. As was stated previously, you do not need expansion with .430" diameter bullets and the lighter bullets do not penetrate as well.

Dave is correct, you want a hard cast with a large meplat like the LBT boolit. I have never been satisfied with the 240 XTP's on deer as I have never gotten complete penetration with them. With a hit on a heavy bone or a raking, quartering shot, you could lose a deer. They killed okay with the perfect broadside lung shot and if you think every shot you take will be perfect, then they will work. It is, however not a perfect world so I went to the LBT style boolits and will never, ever go back to a condom bullet for hunting. The results on game have been so fantastic that I will never soil my barrels with copper again. Most of my deer are on the ground, either in it's tracks or in 30 feet. Once in a while one will go 30 yds.
Yes, the xtp's will also put one down in 30 yds, but they open too fast. The 300 gr. one will hold together but the meplat is not large enough to start and by the time it opens, if it does, it is too deep.
I have a drawer full of XTP's that I used for silhouette because they are very accurate. They will corrode away before I hunt with them. The LBT's will hold an inch at 50 yds. so accuracy difference is not even a consideration.

Your experience is interesting. I've taken a dozen or so deer with the 240 XTPs at 1300-1350 fps or so. My problem has usually been UNDER expansion - they punch right through without expanding at all or expanding very little, on lung shots (this witnessed by the exit and entry holes being the same size). On quartering shots, I've had good performance. I've recovered only two bullets, and they both performed admirably.

Just last deer season I shot an adult doe at about 6 yds broad side with said load - bullet went right on through, and she didn't even flinch. She ran about 40 yds then stopped and turned broadside - I shot again, this time hitting her in the spine, and she went down. When butchering it was easy to see how the first hit was perfect lung hit, but the hole on either side of the rib cage was the same size - no expansion, and no bullet fragments in the cavity. I've been tempted to look for SOFTER 240s since this experience (and others similar experiences).

I have an uncle who uses them in a 44 carbine rifle, and has had excellent results, even at the somewhat higher velocity. He's killed some fine whitetail bucks with that stupid-looking little ruger carbine...

Also, in some areas it is illegal to hunt big game with non-expanding bullets.

I do not really care if a handgun bullet expands. I find it interesting that most of the responses go for lung shots. When hunting with handguns I always go for the shoulder shot. My purpose is to break down the skeleton of the animal and usually drop it on the spot. A good shoulder shot will break the deer down as well a sending a lot of shrapnel into the lungs.

If you want an excellent expanding bullet in the 44 that still holds togther and will completely penetrate deer sized game, I would only go with 2 bullets:

1.) 250 grain Winchester/Nosler Partition Gold hollow point.

or

2.) 270 grain Speer Gold Dot Soft point

and if you can find them the old 240 grain Black Talon hollow points will work great on deer, with the exception of the "texas heart shot".


9.3x62,
I seriously doubt that cast bullets would get anyone in trouble under the "non-expanding" bullet law.
Cast bullets DO expand, they expand at different velocities depnding on their alloy. Hit one with a sledge hammer for proof - they expand. Also depends on if you paln to hit bone (shoulder and Spine.) Soft point bullets expand depending on the alloy and jacket thickness. Hollow points do not always expand, so are they illegal when the fail to expand? No.

I doubt the "non-expanding" bullet law would get you in any trouble unless you were using steel lined bullets or tungsten bullets.

David

I have only used 45 caliber, 300 grain XTP`s with the double crimp groove in my 454 Casull, handloaded to 1450fps.As long as you hit them in the right spot they will put them down.Out of 12 or 13 deer, I have recovered only 2 bullets.On the first one, the deer was about 60 to 70 yds feeding to me and I was in a stand above him. My shot hit the top of the back between the shoulder blades and ranged down through the body to stop at the bones at the top of the back leg.Complete expansion and the bullet held together after hitting and shattering bone.The 2nd shot was a measured 93yds at a very large whitetail which was the best buck I`ve taken.He was feeding with his rear end facing me and I was hoping for a better shot,however,he was going further into the heavy stuff and would soon be gone.He turned slightly and showed the back,right side of his rib cage which is where I placed my shot.After I walked the 93yds and stepped into the thicket, I saw him laying down about 20yds to my right.As he got to his feet I quickly kneeled down and hit him in the left shoulder which knocked him down and out.If I had waited a little longer he would have never moved from where he was bedded down but the light was going fast.The first bullet had angled through the lungs and stopped under the skin at the left shoulder.Expansion was picture perfect and measured .723".The XTP`s have always worked for me.Good luck with your hunting. JFS

FMJs also "expand" when you hit them with a hammer, but they are still illegal. These laws are like so many other dumb guns laws. For example, some places where I hunt are handgun/shotgun only, however, you are free to use xp-100s and TCs in ANY centerfire round you choose, 30-06, if you want, and yet you can't used a 44 Mag carbine (like a marlin lever, which would be fun) in those same areas.

Given these quirky laws I expect that it is a matter of "looking like" you are shooting an expanding bullet; i.e. shooting a bullets that are designed to expand, even though it may not in all circumstances. Anyway, I am not about to play chicken with the wardens, so I'll stick with "expanding" bullets, over-expanding or non-expanding as they may be.

That is also strange. I have killed all the deer I hit with the XTP's and I do like them for being the most accurate bullet made. But I have recovered every one in the deer, usually against the skin on the offside, with broadside hits in the ribcage. They all have perfect mushrooms.
I bought a pile of these when they first came out. I wonder if Hornady toughened them up a little since then.
I still won't stop using the LBT's because I made my own moulds and they don't cost anything to make. With the amount of boolits I run through my guns, I could not afford to shoot if I bought them. My SBH has over 56,000 rounds through it alone. (I kept track of the bricks of primers I used in it.)
I have been amazed by the results on every deer shot with LBT's. I cast them VERY hard by adding tin and antimony to wheel weights. They cannot be scratched with a fingernail. I have never recovered one of them no matter where the deer was hit. I have tried to dig some out of the ground after going through deer and still never found one after excavating enough for a basement.
I even made a mould for my BFR 45-70 in this style and it is totally devastating on deer. They are accurate enough to keep on a 10" steel plate at 200 yds. with a red dot, shooting Creedmore off my leg.

Regarding the question of expanding 44 bullets, I can relate what I did to a .45 caliber 230 gr ACP bullet.

I took the mold to my gunsmith and told him to hollow point it and build me a .224 diameter plug to go in the mould. When completed and I started casting with it, the mold produced about as ugly and vicious looking bullet as you could ask for.

The first day hunting with the new round and I shot a large jackrabbit at about 20 yds. At impact it looked like I had shot into a feather pillow. The rabbit dropped without a twitch. When I went to check him out, the entrance would was naturally 45 caliber and the exit would was a crater easily 2" across. I found the bullet buried just beneath the sand opposite side of the rabbit. It was a perfect mushroom and the size of a silver dollar.

All of this was achieved at lowly 45 ACP velocities.

From what investigating I've done, hollow points in cast bullets are usually 2/3s of the length of the bullet. That is deeper than one might expect.

And from my own experiments with forming jacketed bullets and modifying cast bullets, the DIAMETER of the opening in a bullet has virturally no effect on the accuracy etc of the bullet.

Conclusion is you can create a bullet just about as nasty as you want. A .20 or .25 diameter hole in a cast 44 bullet should produce a bullet that will certainly expand.

The problem with poor bullet expansion in deer is that broadside deer shots are not very substantial targets unless the shoulder bones are penetrated. Punching in and out of the rib cage is no great challenge to a bullet and poor expansion is often the result.

Any cast bullet can be turned into an expanding bomb if you want it.

When I took my 3 point blacktail the 240 grain XTP worked just fine. The shot was from about 30 yards. Just took one shot. The deer was bunched to run when I hit it so it went about 10 yards before it dropped. Found the bullet on the far side just under the skin. Didn't weigh it but the expansion was good. For me that was just fine. Slim

I don't shoot my Deer in the shoulders like some people say to stop them I prefer a Double Lung shot. I process my own Deer and don�t like all of the blood shot meat when hit in the shoulders. Some times the XTP bullets fragment and leave pieces in the meat, but while I am processing I usually find them. I have had good expansion when exiting the Deer with the XTP bullets except for the XTP/MAG. I understand that expansion may very depending on how many rib bones have been broken, but with a 44cal or larger bullet I don�t think that expansion is a big factor, more importantly proper bullet placement will result in a humane kill IMHO.

Thanks for the imput guys. I have a old box of 300 gr XTP's and I just got this new box. The new box has a double crimp ring. What is that all about? Ron

I agree for condom bullets. But the hard cast will not even slow down in a shoulder. I really think they will penetrate three deer in a row.

M16,

Carefull with them shoulder shots. Most generally a shoulder shot means a downed deer, but not always. Last Fall I was hunting with some hot 45lc's loaded with 300 grain jacked hallow points. I shot an average sized buck at about 35 or 40 yards hitting him in the shoulder. He not only didn't drop, he took off running gimpy leg and all. Luckily he stopped after about 70 yards (crossing back under my tree) to look back. I then got another round in him dropping him. The first shot hit the shoulder, breaking it, but the slug never penetrated the chest cavity. After this experiance I vowed never to use hallow points for deer again. Point being, shoulder shots are good but becareful of the type of bullet you use and the velocity.

I took a picture. How do I get a picture on this post?

go to www.hunt101.com and join or register to the website. upload the picture from your computer to the website then right click on the picture and left click on "properties". Highlight and copy the "http:www.hunt101BlahBlahBlah.jpg" then paste that address between this: [img] and [/img]

it should look like this


David

Dave, the picture is in galleries under boolits

Which galleries? Hunt101? I tried looking up boolits on Hunt101 and found about 7 pages of stuff.

David

Ron.........the second crimp ring on the 300 gr XTP is for seating the bullets out to a longer overall cartridge length in guns like the Redhawk . You can then add a bit more powder and "magnumize" the .44 even more .

I've used the 300 grainers on a number of deer and never recoverd a bullet , but from the wounds my impression is there is some expansion occuring , along with gobs of penetration .

I've tried the 270 gr Gold Dot on one deer , and it looks good so far . I think it will be a good compromise between the 300 s and the 240 s , should get you fair expansion with the large soft , flat point , along with retaining plenty of penentration due to the extra weight over the 240 s .

Holy smokes, Dave. I didn't realize there were so many pictures. Type boolits in search and you will get it right away.

Dave, still under bfrshooter.

Is this it?



"Left one is a 45-70 BFR, 317 grs. Middle is a 330 gr. BFR and the right one is a 330 gr. .44 mag "

I found these by doing a search using "bfrshooter". I could not find them searching for boolits. Don't really know why.

they look really good. What is the "inside the case length" and "total length" of the 330gr. 44 on the right?


Thanks

David

Thats them, Dave. That little 317 BFR boolit is deadly. I can hit steel every shot at 200 yds and have hit steel to 500 with it. It drops deer so fast it is still something I marvel at. Internal damage is tremendous but there is almost no meat damage. I can butcher right to both holes.

now how did you get the picture on this site?

right click on the picture and left click on "properties". Highlight and copy the address that should look similar to this: "http:www.hunt101BlahBlahBlah.jpg"
Then paste that address between this: [img] and [/img]

it should look like this:





David

I have used Hornady 240 xtp's on several deer, from 20 to 100 yards, from my Ruger Redhawk. Some dropped, some ran some, all died. They are accurate- 2.5" at 100yards.
I have recovered a couple, most have gone completely through.
I have a video of a doe I shot with the .44. You can see her whole side ripple at the shot. She ran 50 yards.

I'm going against the current here but I perfer the 200 grain HP Hornady XTP in the .44 magnum. I wanted a flatter shooting bullet to better stretch the range to 100 yard. Besides, deer are not that tough so 200 will be just fine. Now I like heavy cast loads too but the post was on deer loads and that's my current favorite.

I should have said I was Mule deer hunting. Ron