Seems like the difference in cost of having a 5-shot 480 Ruger built on a SBH gun and a new Freedom Arms M83 in 480 Ruger is moot.

I'm interested in comments from those who have shot either or both. In the case of the custom Ruger, please indicate who did the work. The Ruger gunsmiths I'm considering are Hamilton Bowen and Gary Reeder. Others are out there and deserve mention too, but thier names escape me now...

My thoughts are to build a SA revolver with about a 5" barrel. I am not really considering the .475L - even in the FA revolver, too much for me - 480 Ruger will like be it.

Thanks in advance - redleg

Here are some of my thoughts. I am trying to decide on the same thing myself. Athough I also have the added problem of: 475/480 v. 45 colt/454 Casull.

Pro's for Freedom arms:
grip shape
lifetime warranty on premier model
shorter waiting period
may retain more of its retail value
easier to sell later
confidence in the manufacturer

Pro's for Custom Ruger:
Made one at a time
joy of owning a custom one of a kind revolver
abillity to be creative in design
availabillity of a blued or color case hardened finish
Confidence in the manufacturer, but at a premiom price. (the big names ussually ask for more $$$, but that is how it should be I guess)
Ruger transfer bar - carry all five shots with total confidence
No half cock (one less click to spook game)
availabillity of moderately priced custom grip panels

Well, that is what I have so far.
It all comes down to a personal opinion and taste I guess. A Bowen built gun would be a neat thing to have, but then again so would a Freedom Arms!!!

David

Except for the price tag and waiting period or hard time finding them (freedom Arms)I do not think either of them have any cons.

David

I have one of Gary's custom SBH. It started out as a Kodiak Magnum in .41RemMag then I had a "good idea". Things sort of went weird after that. What I ended up with is a duel cylinder five shooter in .41RemMag and .41GNR in FULL CAMO a very definate one of a kind. Gary calls it "The Green Machine", has a pic of it on his web site. Operation wise it is slick as goose sh*t, is a real dream to shoot, easy on the hand and ear and is so accurate it is creepy. Only one drawback, if I ever drop it in the woods I'll have a heck of a time finding it.

You guys make my mouth water----the solution? Buy both!

I have shot many of John Linebaugh's and David Clements conversions and they are just that, Ruger conversions. John and David both do womderful work and are great guys. However, there is only so much any of the 'smiths can do with a Ruger platform.

I bought a Ruger Bisley with the intent of having it converted to .475 or .500 Linebaugh by either John or Dave. Once Freedom Arms chambered the Model 83 in .475, it was a very easy decision. I now own a FA in .475 and still have the Bisley in .44 Mag. I have done many of the same steps such as adding the freewheel pawl, oversized base pin, and Bowen rear sight. So I have the best .475 in my opinion and have had the opportunity to learn how to do some of the customizing myself. I actually got a good deal on my new FA and it wound up being several hundred dollars less than the cost of buying the base gun and having the conversion done, something like $1400 for the FA vs. nearly $2000 for the conversion.

My advice to you is this; if you want something which is chambered in a FA, go with the FA. If you want something like the 500 Linebaugh, go with a Linebaugh or Clements conversion.

[ 11-18-2003, 07:31: Message edited by: MS Hitman ]

I have a five shot .45 Colt on a Ruger Bisley that was built by Hamilton Bowen. The execution of the conversion is outstanding and took about nine monthes from the time I sent the gun to Bowen. Not to long considering I chose to have Bowen and his crew add some extra touches. As far as I'm concerned this gun is revolver perfection! Clements, Linebaugh, and Stroh all have strong followings as well.

While I cannot deny the out of the box quality and strength of Freedom Arms I like the Ruger conversions for a couple of reasons. I like the appearence of fine blue and color cased finishing over that of stainless steel as well as the overall look of the finished package with a barrel band. And a single action wouldn't be complete in my book without a cross latch for the base pin. I have large hands and the Bisley fits my hand better than the Freedom arms grip which I find somewhat on the small side. In the larger calibers the Ruger may even and extra margin for safety due to the larger diameter cylinder, hence thicker chamber walls. The Ruger conversions also have longer cylinders which allow for greater flexibility in bullet nose length. For example in my .45 Colt I use bullets with 0.500" nose lengths. This gives me marginally more case capacity than a .454 Casull loaded to function in a Freedom arms gun with its shorter cylinder.

The key to a Ruger conversion is to examine many, perhaps very many, candidate guns to find the best one you can. Pay close attention to the grip frame to frame fit as more often than not the fit not so good. Older production Rugers are often better in the craftmanship department.

Good luck with your decision!

The Ruger cylinder is longer than the FA so you can use bullets with a longer nose. If your going to handload, then why not get the .475 and just load it to what you want?

The last I heard is that Reader does not line bore his cylinders. This may have no effect on practicle accuracy, but then it might. I shot a buddys Linebaugh built .475. It was very smooth and easy to hit 2liter bottles with at 100yds.

I haven't owned one of the customs, so perhaps my opinion is moot, but I my vote goes for the Freedom Arms.

They are designed to handle high pressure, are line bored, tight fitting and accurate. I am not trying to say the conversions aren't good quality, but my gut feeling is that a FA is stronger, just as accurate (if not more so), and has pretty close to as smooth an action...all for less money. I would get the FA 475 with an extra 480 cylinder (check the used market)and not look back.

I am not sure how time will affect the relative value between a FA and a good custom, but figure that is of secondary importance if you are buying it to shoot.

My .02 (maybe worth its price), dvnv

Redleg-

We've got too much in common. I'd like exactly what you're describing. Done quite a bit of research as well. I own a Reederized 4 5/8 BH 45 LC, a stock Bisley 45 LC and a Field Grade FA in 454. I still would like a .480 also. Not into the 475 at all either, too much for me.

My FA is quite accurate, and the fitting is good, almost too good. It's a pain in the ass to load and the cylinder turns like a bank vault and is really tight. I also have a cylinder that may be undersized. I can shoot about two cylinders through it then the cartidges need to be really pressed down into the cylinder. I am sure I'll take a hammering for bitching about too tight tolerances. I really do love the gun, just not as fun as the others due to continual upkeep.

I think Phillips and Rogers had the cheapest 5 shot conversion in town. Last year the cylinders were only $250 fitted. I think they almost doubled to around $500. I think I wanted a 6" barrel installed also. I think that was $180. I'd prefer the extra 1/4" of grip to put a small finger on, so I am shopping for a Super Blackhawk for a platform.

Think I kinda stole my FA off Gunbroker.com.............$980.

At least going custom, you can pay it little by little, instead of loosing a $1000 bill all at once.

Do you have a current address for phillips and Rodgers? All my links are outdated for them.

Many thanks to all who posted their thoughts.

David Thomas: Very good points. I'm wondering if you or anyone else could explain the "safety slide" as it's referred to on the FA model 83. I know the model 97 has a trasfer bar - but I'm interested in the model 83 in this case. Thanks.

Still Crawfish: Please elaborate on the "scary" accuracy of you Reeder .41.

MS Hitman: Very good points also. I'm leaning toward minor modifications to my Ruger SBH 44 Mag and pinching a few pennies to get the FA later.

DavidReed: Thanks. I have seen Bowen's work and you're absolutely correct about his work. Like you, I'm a traditional material guy - but mostly that tradition is hedged towards long guns, in particular SxS guns and shot guns. I did examine my Ruger SBH from the mid '80s and noticed exactly what you're speaking of in somewhat less than stellar grip frame to frame fit. It fits good and flush, but is slightly offset so that the frame is "proud" on one side and the grip frame "proud" on the other. Hard to fix a fit problem like that. All the more reason to just do simple mods to the gun instead of a four-figure job.

Lar45/dvnv: The 475L loaded down is tolerable for me. It is still a consideration along with the 480 Ruger. I like the bore diameter and am really after ~400 grains moving at 1100 fps or so. Either cartridge will do that, but possibly the 480 more efficiently...

Jesse James: That's exactly why I like the 480 too. I'm probably going to shorten my 44 Mag SBH down from 7.5" to 4.5" or so and leave it a 6-shooter. The future .480 will be a similarly sized single action platform I hope.

Thanks again to all - redleg

Redleg,

The model 83 safety from what I can tell is just like that offered on the old model Ruger blackhawks with the three screws. The hammer rests just off of the fireing pin, but not all the way back to half cock.
Some people feel perfectly safe carrying all five cylinders loaded this way, and others don't. I would feel safe, but in the abundance of caution, I keep the cylinder empty with this type of "safety."

Freedom Arms says carry it empty.

Maybe someone else can be a bit more descriptive of how it actually works, mechanically speaking.

David

Several years ago I ordered a Reeder Custom .41 Magnum that looks just like the 5.5" "Long Colt Hunter" on his web page. It also has the extra .41 GNR cylinder. While I was waiting for that one to arrive I bought a 6" Freedom Arms Premier Grade .454 with an extra .45 Colt cylinder. The Reeder Custon is both beautiful and accurate but as one of the above posters said...it a Ruger platform...and it is never going to take the beating that the FA will. If you want something special then have a custom gun built.

As to the "one less click to spook game"..there is an easy way around that with the FA that can not be done by a Ruger New Model. Cock the hammer and then let it down to 1/2 cock. Now when you cock the hammer pull the trigger back and then re-engage the hammer when you get it all the way back....no clicks at all as the cylinder is locked up and won't turn. I do not recommend carrying the gun that way while still hunting but in a stand when game is close it is doable. Also put your support hand thumb between the hammer and the frame to prevet a discharge should you slip while pulling the hammer back.

Bob

Since you are going for a 5 shot cylinder, have you thought about moving up to the .500 Linebaugh?
You can load it just as you would the .480 - 400 gr @ 1100 fps and the bullets are wider.
I have a redhawk that Bowen converted for me and he does very fine work. Gun functions and shoots great.
Some of the drawbacks to a .500 compared to the .480 would be:
Availability of jacketed bullets (Barnes & Hawk vs. Hornady XTP & Speer gold dot), Cases (Buffalo Bore vs. Hornady), factory ammo (Buffalo Bore only on the .500 vs. Speer & Hornady) and the RCBS dies use a larger than 7/8" (maybe 1 1/8") die body for the resizer die (the expander and seating die are 7/8").
On the plus side, the .500 makes a pretty big hole in what you shoot at.

There is a lot info offered here and there is not much more I can add. If you buy a Freedom Arms, then get the Premeire Grade, as it is a lot easier to polish should you scratch it. The fine bead blast finish on the Field Grade is very nice but it is very difficult to get rid of scratch without re-bead-blasting the whole thing.

On the hand, if you want a 5-shot Ruger then go with Hamilton Bowen or Dave Clements, as all others are just trailing behind. There is no doubt Mr. Bowen is a master sixgun builder and he got a whole book to prove it. However, only you can decide whether or not you will get everything Mr. Bowen has to offer. Dave Clements is also very top notch sixgun builder and he is usually several hundred dollars less expensive than BCA so he is usually more preferable for most people. Dave times his 5-shot conversions to prefection and he is very easy to work. Also there is no BS associated with these two fine sixgun builders.

Just my 2 cents and please keep the change! Good luck!

I have two linebaugh guns and another on the way and one clemments gun and anohter on the way and they are wonderful guns as is the FA guns the only reason I havent bought a FA is I prefer them blued and they dont chamber a .500 line. Maybe someday soon though ill but a FA .44 special.

Well,

After some thought, I might as well go with the 500 Linebagh. I'll report back with the results...

redleg

one thing that hasnt been addressed here is resale value. You will usually take a beating selling a FA gun. You will take a little less of a beating on a bowen or clemments gun if you can find someone who wants what you had made. John Linebaughs guns seem to hold there value better then most because there still the ones in the most demand. Thats why you wait two years for one rather then a matter of months. One other point is that alot is made out of the FA guns being a little stronger and lasting forever but All the major gunmakers stand behind there products with a lifetime warantee.

[ 12-03-2003, 15:09: Message edited by: Lloyd Smale ]

I addressed the resale value issue in my first post. (First reply under Pro's for FA) I have found the Freedom Arms retain a greater percentage of their resale value while at the same time are easier to sell. Everyone knows the quality of the Freedom Arm's guns. Everyone world wide!! However not everyone knows of the quality of a Clements built gun, even though it maybe just as good as FA or a Bowen. Also the Custom gun is just that "custom - to that particular owner." I may not want a nimrod or 8" octagon barrel. With a custom you have to hope someone will want the exact same thing you wanted when you built it, or had it built.
Also the custom may have cost you $4,000 to build if you deviated from the standard package any. These tend to lose a larger dollar amount if not a larger percentage of original price.
Buy a FA for $1,400. Sell it for $1,100 -- only lost 300.
Build one for $4,500 sell it for $3,000 and you have lost $1,500.
I say this as a buyer/potential buyer observing the market. I have never sold either a FA or a cutom 5 shooter. But I have been watching the used market closely and talking to some of the custom builders.
Sure you might find a FA for the rare $900.

I may be wrong, but this has been my observation.

Redleg, let us know what you get (with details) and who will make it. Can't argue with the 500!

David

i respect your opinion but dont agree. Ive seen many FA guns for $1000-1200 on the action sights. Figuring a $1800 gun thats a big cut when reselling. You wont see a Linebaugh that cost @2200 for sale much under $2000 and thats if you can even find one most owners wouldnt part with them for anything and if it is its snatched up in a second.

[ 12-04-2003, 04:05: Message edited by: Lloyd Smale ]

Lloyd, you may be right. I do not know, like I said I have never sold one. To tell you the truth, I would have to be hurting for cash pretty bad to sell a FA or one of the nice custom 5 shooters!! Those that can affod to just buy and sell these guns all day long have too much money, and probably don't appreciate what they have anyway.

I wish Linebaugh would post more info on his website. I know more about Clements and Bowen than Linebaugh. I am sure he is good though, hell it is his name on the cartridges!!

David

he builds a real quality gun reason he doesnt advertise more is he doesnt have to. He is allway backlogged a couple years as it is. He doesnt even own a computer and hates the things. I agree with what you said about selling guns. Id have to be starving to death to part with mine.