Tyler, Here's some details on a "matched set" of Blackhawk and Single-Six Hunters http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-Hunters.htm They don't have the Bisley grip shape but all sorts of people prefer the SAA-style plowhandle.

Now that would be sweet! Maybe grandpas and grandmas could get in on the deal too.

My preference is for a double action revolver. I find recoil more manageable that the single actions. My personal choice in a big-game hunting revolver is a .44 magnum Dan Wesson. This is a big, heavy gun that is also one of just a few Garrett ammo company suggests as being stout enough to handle their heaviest loads. Mine shoots more accurately than me too. (okay, so thats not to hard to do) It also has a reputation for being capable of shooting heavy loads on a regular basis without shooting loose. I shoot 325 grain hard cast bullets at a chrono'ed 1280 fps. These loads really pack a punch. I shot a record book black bear last fall with it. Both bullets hit in the chest just inside the right shoulder and penetrated diagonally full length of the bear, coming to rest under the hide in the back of the left hind quarter. The bear was estimated by the DOW in excess of 500 lbs. These bullets penetrated around 4 foot of bear.

ok you guys keep hearing about my redhawks here they are.Both 7.5 inch barrel the scoped one is 41 mag and the open sights is 44 mag

Nice pistols. I like the idea of a matched set. I am considering scoping my Dan Wesson .44 for hunting big game.

well mine started out i was looking for a nice 44 mag for hunting every new gun i handled the trigger was bad i searched probally close to 50 gunshops through out ny and one day in my local shop i was telling him what i was looking for and he asked if i would consider 41 mag i said depends on gun and he showed me the scoped ruger i showed you real nice and someone did a great trigger job already so it came home then a few years later in same shop ran across the 44mag it had a burris scope which i sold dirt cheap to either a member here or 24hr and yes i love the matched set deal didn't plan it just happened that way the lord blessed me with these

Tyler Kemp
Since your not a complete novice- I vote for 38/357 Ruger BH/SBH! Pratice alot with 38 SP then move up to 357 Mags. If you don't reload -start- as this will give all the flexibility of the round. If you were a New to any kind of shootitng I'd say 22 LR!

tyler, this is my first post on the sight but it is also the first one i feel i can help with. i have had and hunted with Ruger BH/SBH in 44mag and 45 colt, also S&W .357. now my goto gun is a 14" contender in 30-30. if it is accuraccy your interested in the contender is THE way to go. look at any IHMSA match, more contender and contender styled guns than anything else. i can put 5 shots into less than an inch at 100yds with factory loads and a 2X scope.i also have a encore in .308 15", the recoil from these is no more than any 44mag load. if i could only get one handgun for hunting it would definetly be a contender styled gun. having said all of this i would stay with the old style first generation contenders, as the trigger is much better on these than the G2 or encore. also you can have one gun in everything from 22 to 44 to 30-30 or 45-70.

good luck in your search.

bert

I would select a 22 for a new shooter. If he wanted a 44 -- I could make that work by loading light 44 specials so there was little recoil or blast until the shooter got his confidence.
In 44's -- I shoot ruger single actions and smith & wesson double actions. By the way -- the ruger bisley grip frame is not for full power loads in 44 for me anyway. The shape is wrong and it is hard to grip. It is great however for loads up to 1000fps.
Just my input.

I think anything but a .22......and I'd vote for either a Ruger Single-six or a Smith K-22, unless you can afford a Freedom Arms......is just plain silly for a novice pistol shooter to learn on.

Yes, he can certainly shoot .38 spec target loads in a .357/38 or .44 specials in a .44mag and none of these options are bad choices BUT he will have to have deep pockets or like to reload a lot if he is to become proficient. Reloading takes time and you still can't reload for what a .22 LR costs. Hell just the primers cost more than a .22 round these days.

Compare that to going down to your neighborhood Walmart's and buying a 500 .22 bullets for less than a two cents each.

Get a .22, preferably a good high quality gun, shoot it as often as you possibly can for a few months and then for hunting get a .44 mag and load up and down for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I'll begin with saying I shoot alot of rifle, but I really, really, am not good with any form of pistol. I would like a nice accurate revolver to learn to shoot well and hunt with. Deer and smaller.

Tyler,

First, a question: Do you shoot your rifles scoped or using open sights?

If you are accustomed to a scope, the handgun's open sights will require you re-educate yourself. No shame in that. It is a new skill, after all. See my reference to bfrshooter's post, below.

When I first started in the shooting sports, a mentor told me, "Pick the bullet you want to throw and the energy it should have. Then pick what cartridge that delivers those things. Only then, pick a gun from among the ones chambered for that cartridge."

What caliber rifle did you start with? Chances are it was a 22 RF, yes? Most good shots did.

Here's my reasoning for my answer at the bottom of this post: Your accuracy problems indicate that some practice would be in order. Even if you didn't shoot high, practice would be in order, but for you, even more. The rimfire cartridge will allow you to practice gun handling, sight alignment, trigger and breathing control, all that stuff, MUCH more cheaply than any reloads could and frees up time at the press for more practice time. Get a quality 22 Long Rifle in the same action style you plan to have for your centerfire gun. Get them both at the same time if you want, but practice with the 22 until you can hit what you aim at with good grouping. Then begin transitioning to your chosen centerfire cartridge.


Peter's post had this good advice about sight picture:

Peter
No one has addressed this yet, but it is the most serious! Buy an MTM pistol rest and use it to practice. The top of the front sight must be level with the top of each "ear" of the rear sight. The gap between the front sight and the rear sight must equal on each side. Remember 1/8 of an inch at the gun will be many inches at 25 yards (heven't done the math, sorry). So, learn the sight picture!

bfrshooter had some good advice about trigger control which you may or may not already have down, but it bears repeating:

bfrshooter
Shooting high is caused by pulling the trigger when the sights cross the target. You can cure it by just adding pressure slowly to the trigger and forgetting the sight movement.
You are trying to make the gun shoot at the instant the sight touches the target

To which I add, Keep pressure on the trigger when the sights drift off-target, add small amounts of pressure when on-target. Eventually the sear will break (at a surprise to you), hopefully when the sights are on target.

But your question was strictly hardware oriented, not technique, so back to your question:

gumboot458 posted this wisdom about practice (which cheap ammo will afford you more of):

gumboot458
...........If you need to learn to hit with your handgun , and it sounds like you do ,,, The 22 rf is the way to go .....

Gumboot458 went on to explain how his wife responded well to only one particular gun, but that with practice with 22s he transitioned to many action types and larger calibers

and lastly, Gatogordo had this sage advice which exactly matches mine except for the virtue of being brief

Gatogordo
I think anything but a .22....is just plain silly for a novice pistol shooter to learn on.

Yes, he can certainly shoot... <centerfire>...BUT he will have to have deep pockets or like to reload a lot if he is to become proficient. Reloading takes time and...just the primers cost more than a .22 round these days.

As one other poster suggested, if you will shoot a single action and have deep pockets, Freedom Arms 22 and the Freedom Arms centerfire of your choice would be a great combination and the "muscle memory" you gain with the 22 will easily transfer to the larger caliber. Similar "matched" pairs of 22RF/centerfire guns could be selected at your local gunshop. Heck, you might even get a "group rate" on buying a pair (spaced out in time to avoid the Federal reporting on multiple gun sales if you are sensitive about that sort of thing).

Good shooting, and I hope you cure whatever quirk is causing you to pull your shots high. You do have a good shooting coach, right?

Larry (Lost Sheep)

P.S. By the way. A 41 Mag can deliver more energy at the muzzle and even more at a distance than the 44 Mag. It shoots flatter, farther and at higher energies (marginally). The limitation is that the 44 has heavier bullets available at the top end.

Lost Sheep -- PM back at ya!

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Well, in the 20's and 30's, Elmer Keith recommended starting out with a revolver chambered in .22 LR. That is still good advice to this day. However, if you are set on shooting a centerfire, you may be best served with a .44 mag. By reloading, you will be able to start with low recoil rounds and work your way up to more potent loads.

Agreed except I like the .45 COLT over the .44 mag to handload.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tyler Kemp: I have shot .38 Special and it felt like shooting a .22 pocket pistol I have also shot. I shot a 500 S&W once also, which I consider much, much worse QUOTE]

.22 is fine. If you handload, .38/.357 can be shot with .38 wadcutters to start, and workup to the power level you want.

.38 Special brass is really cheap and lasts forever. .357 has taken lots of deer; placement and load is important.

I shot some 22, 38, 357, and 45 ACP yesterday, and I can honestly say none of them bothered me at all. I actually found it enjoyable to leave some of the chambers of the revolvers empty and notice I had no flinch at all. With the 45 ACP I think there was the most recoil, but it was nothing like a rifle. The kick went straight up, I could shoot it all day.

Tyler, you have to shoot a .44 magnum on up to start getting into recoil that many find objectionable. I own and shoot big-bore rifles, and I think the handguns are harder to get accustomed to when it comes to the heavy recoilers like the Casull, .475 Linebaugh, etc. The key is to practice a lot. You are obviously well on your way! It's an addiction, so be careful!

Whitworth is right on with this one. I think the biggest obstacle to shooting the big boys is the state of mind. You must expect a lot of fire and noise. There's no escaping it. Most of all you have to accept that these firearms are going to assault all your senses, mostly common sense. When you touch a .500 Mag off or the BFR .45-70, your brain is going to tell your body that you're a dumbass for pulling that trigger. You just HAVE to expect for it to recoil and just ride it out when it does. That takes a LOT of practice from most of us.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Well, in the 20's and 30's, Elmer Keith recommended starting out with a revolver chambered in .22 LR. That is still good advice to this day. However, if you are set on shooting a centerfire, you may be best served with a .44 mag. By reloading, you will be able to start with low recoil rounds and work your way up to more potent loads.

Depending on your budget and the way you will shoot, start with a progressive reloading press from Dillion, not because they are the only one but because I've been using mine for 30 years without complaint. I had one part fail and a replacement was mailed immediately. The Ruger Redhawk has a replacement type front sight. I purchased a serrated higher replacement and it fixed my "too high" groups. The type of grip you use can infuence you impact point on the target too. After years of too small but concealable grips shooting high, I went to some larger hand filling factory grips on my S&Ws and the problem seemed to go away. I think you should learn to shoot reduced loads in a revolver you want to hunt with and work up to a medium load for everyday practice, a 240 grain cast SWC in the .44 Magnum or a 255 grain cast SWC in the .45 Colt for instance, at 900 to 1000fps. Adjustable sights are a must no matter what you pick. A .41 Magnum would be perfectly acceptable too. Get a good reloading manual like the Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook, current edition. If you still have money left, get a good .22 LR semiauto. They are typically the most accurate and trouble free in fuction compared to most .22 revolvers and will still teach you the basics. The Encore is nice if you want a scoped handgun. The Ruger Hunter model is good, but you are limited to a single revolver caliber and if you are going to go with a scoped long-range set up, might as well have the option of multiple calibers, including some rifle calibers suitable for hunting. Use a crossdraw if you get a 5" to 6.5" revolver, it carries well and is good on horseback or in a tree stand. My second choice would be a good shoulder holster with spare ammo carriers attached on the opposite side to balance the load, either speed loaders for double action revolver or loops for 12 or more cartridges. Galco and Idaho Leather are both good, the latter a bit heavier but cheaper. A basic Uncle Mike nylon shoulder holster will do until you see what you like as to style and carry modes. A curent S&W .44 Magnum revolver in the 5 to 6 1/2 inch range is a good starting point, for the good trigger and smoothness, as well as moderate weight compare to a Dan Wesson or Ruger Super Redhawk. The ability to carry the handgun in the field all the time, because of moderate size and weight, will give you more chances to use it on small game, varmits and bigger animals, if you carry it. Sight radius is a compromise, an extremely long barrel will limit portablility and increase weight. I've carried a belt holster .22 LR with a center fire revolver in a shoulder holster if squirrels and deer or other big game were a possibility on the same trip. If it is legal is the state where you live and deer are your only interst, a .45 ACP is more than enough for deer, 200 grain Speer Gold Dots at 1000 fps+ work and you can get a .22 LR conversion for the same pistol for practice. You could almost get buy without reloading if you went this route, as well as the Encore with a .22 LR and another centerfire barrel. I like iron sights and a center fire "traditional" straight walled, rimmed case revolver for deer but the .45 ACP 1911 style pistol and Encore are two other choices.

I must say I was shooting much better than I ever have with a pistol before. When standing and shooting I shot high when I missed, but when I really concentrated I hit a can out around 25-30 yards most of the time. With a red dot sight from sitting I hit a can 9/10 times from 50. Once with the 38 I hit a piece of a clay bird, just a speck from where I was at 100 yards. Really surprising how accurate the 4" revolver was. It took the 38 a loooong time to get there at 100 yards, compared to my 6mm AI at around 3300 fps which seemed instantaneous.

I need a pistol...or maybe that 45-120 I want to build...hmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I need a pistol...or maybe that 45-120 I want to build...hmmmm

Tyler, I think you "need" both.

What I really think I need is a winning lottery ticket. Then I give it to a legal adult to claim the millions of dollars. Would the bank suspect a thing when 11 million showed up in my account?

True story, I actually have a great uncle (I think) who won 11 million after taxes. Soon after he changed his phone number and doesn't talk to relatives much anymore. Don't think I could weasel any money out of him. Wonder what he could make in interest a day?

I suspect he makes enough to support your gun habit!

THE BASICS ARE EXACTLY AS SHOOTING A RIFLE, GETTTING THE SHOT OFF WITHOUT DESTURBING THE SIGHT PICTURE. I HUNT SMALLER SPECIES WITH A RUGER GP 100 IN 357MAG, 6" SS AND BIGGER SPECIES WITH A RUGER SUPER RED HAWK IN 454 CASULL, ALTHOUGH IT'S MOSTLEY AN OVERKILL.THE 44 MAG WOULD BE SUITABLE FOR MOST SPECIES AND WITH BULLETS AVAILABLE FROM 180GR-300GR(HORNADY XTP)YOU COULD TAILOR MAKE A PERFECT ROUND FOR JUST ABOUT ANY APPLICATION AND HAVE A GOOD TIME DEVELOPING/TESTING YOUR LOADS. I SUPPOSE ALL OF US STARTED OUT ALL SHAKEY BUT THE MORE YOU PRACTISE, THE SMALLER YOUR GROUPS WILL BECOME AND THE MORE YOU START TO ENJOY RECOIL, THE MORE CONFIDENT YOU WILL BE IN HITTING YOUR QUIRIES VITALS. PRACTISE TILL YOU CAN HIT BEERCANS CONSTANTLY @ 50 METERS OFF HAND BEFORE HUNTING AND LEARN TO CONTROLL THAT BUCK FEVER!

Anyone have ideas how to become friends with the family recluse?

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
Anyone have ideas how to become friends with the family recluse?

A court order?

Try calling him and see if he is open to a visit and just start spending time with him, bit by bit.......maybe it'll work.....

Oh yeah, thanks for your help and advice everyone, handguns are a topic I know almost nothing about!

Tyler, you've had a lot of good advice. Here's my 2 cents worth.

A pistol shooter needs a .22 pistol, just as a rifle shooter needs a .22 rifle. What else can you shoot 1,000 times for $20-$30? What else can you shoot squirrels with without waking the whole neighborhood? What else are you going to shoot at the range to keep from getting bored while your big gun cools off? What are you going to teach your son to shoot with? What are you going to teach your grandson to shoot with? What are you still going to be able to shoot 80 years from now when your hands are crippled by arthritis and some cretin wants to cut your wife's fingers off to steal her rings?

Buy the best .22 revolver you can afford, have your name engraved on the backstrap, and shoot the heck out of it.

Just my opinion. Have fun.

Going to an NRA banquet tonight with my 6th grade teacher from elementary school. Her husband shoots pistols a lot, he said he would lend me some to shoot with.

If I'm lucky I can win a door prize or something too.

Have you checked your local hunting laws? In some states there are certain energy requirements for legal hunting of big game such as here in Colorado(550 ft lbs at 50 yards.) For a revolver I would suggest a Ruger Bisley in 45 colt. You can buy cowboy action loads which are very mild to start with and build up to full power loads. I practice with a 255gr SWC over 8 gr of Unique (around 850 fps) and hunt with 300gr LBT style hard cast lead bullets at 1200 fps from my SS 5 1/2" Bisley. The Bisley grip handles the recoil of the heavy loads much better than the black hawk. This load can take any animal on the North American continent including the big bears. Big heavy bullets at these velocities PENETRATE!!

If you're just starting out, there's a lot to recommend a double action K-frame revoler in .22LR. If it's available with a magnum cylinder, then so much the better. Once you're well and truly grounded in the techniques of proper sight picture and alignment, trigger control, and breathing, it's a very simple matter to move up to a larger-bore weapon.
If you cannot afford two different revolvers, then any of the S&W N-frame pieces in .41 or .44 Magnum are perfectly suitable. I recommend a barrel no shorter than 5", and 6 1/2" would probably be better. Although there's nothing wrong with the .41 ballistically, the availability of ammunition is sometimes a problem. Even the best planned hunting trips sometimes are the misplacement or outright theft of ammunition. The ability to go into a local Walmart and by a box of .44 Magnum (especially on a Sunday, when most non-chain gunstores are closed). Can save a hunt from going bad.
Using the .44 Special(240grains @ 750 f/s) in the .44 Mag(240grains @ 1200 to 1500f/s) as a training load is a major help in getting accustomed to the revolver. If you can print nice tiny groups (say, 19 out of 20 rounds inside a 6" circle at 100 yards) with the .44 Special, then you're halfway home. Practice with an intermediate load (say, 240 grains @ 1000 to 1150 f/s) until you are as accurate with it as with the .44 Special load. The step up to the full-house load from the intermediate load is usually an easy one.
The old rule of thumb for minimum power in a handgun suitable for hunting was:
1.) No projectile smaller than .40" diameter.
2.) No projectile lighter than 200 grains.
3.) No muzzle velocity less than 1000 f/s.
The .45 Colt and all the magnum revolver rounds except the .357 will meet these criteria with ease. The .45ACP and 10mm auto will also do it, if pushed very hard. All factors being equal, I'm a big fan of heavier projectiles rather than higher velocities. The load that meets the above criteria and with which you can print the tightest groups is your hunting load.
I'm generally a bigger believer in a 300 grain bullet at 1000 f/s than a 240 grain bullet at 1250 or so. I haven't shot 100 deer with each load, so I don't have much in the way of empirical evidence to support it. It's not likely that the target will be able to tell the difference between the two loads mentioned, so picking the load with which you can shoot best is likely the most prudent course.
Others may argue about the 19/20 rounds under 6" group criterion. The vital zone on a whitetail deer is probably larger, but shooting this well in the field is likely more difficult than doing so in the somewhat more user-friendly environs of the local gun range. If you can hit a 6" diameter bull'seye 19/20 times with ease on the range, then doing the same with a bull'seye that is 50% larger (7" dia.) or even twice as large (8.5" dia.) is likely a simpler matter once the hunter is afield.
In any case, whatever range at which you can hit a 6" bull'seye 95% of the time on the range is probably your maximum range in the field.

I hope you find this message of help.

One more vote for a 22 LR revolver! No reason not to have a center fire too but as has been said a dozen times already, you'll shoot better faster and practice more with a good 22 LR.

You can practice longer per session too. Even though the perceived recoil is negligent, a 38 SPCL will fatigue you in far few rounds than a 22. And while the fatigue is building, the quality of your practice declines as well. So your practice session ends sooner just 'cause you feel "done" and you didn't get much improvement out of the last half, anyway.

That feeling happens much later with a 22, just like shooting p-dogs gets tiring much faster with a 308 that a 223.

Put another way, outstanding pistol shooting happens when your mind and body are tuned to the rythm of front sight, target and trigger manipulation coming together at exactly the same time and in exactly the same way everytime. This takes thousands of repetitions to become second nature and it has to be maintained to stay at a peak level. When you're fatigued, that ability to do so fades and the repetitions don't accomplish any good.

And the good news is that the practice on the 22 translates directly to better shooting with the larger calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
... I really, really, am not good with any form of pistol...
So, as you can tell, I know not so much about pistols...inform me.

Thanks,
Tyler

Learn to shoot first. Learn to hunt with a pistol second.

You will be able to learn with a .22 revolver. If you start with a .44 mag, you won't. Period. Reduced loads for a .44mag sounds great, but there is no recoil from a 6' barreled .22 revolver. This allows you to learn to shoot, not to flinch.

If you are not made out of money, price 550 rds of .22 and 50rds of 44mag.

If someone wanted to learn to shoot rifles, would you hand them a .375? Then why on earth would your first pistol be a .44?

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
... I really, really, am not good with any form of pistol...
So, as you can tell, I know not so much about pistols...inform me.

Thanks,
Tyler

Learn to shoot first. Learn to hunt with a pistol second.

You will be able to learn with a .22 revolver. If you start with a .44 mag, you won't. Period. Reduced loads for a .44mag sounds great, but there is no recoil from a 6' barreled .22 revolver. This allows you to learn to shoot, not to flinch.

If you are not made out of money, price 550 rds of .22 and 50rds of 44mag.

If someone wanted to learn to shoot rifles, would you hand them a .375? Then why on earth would your first pistol be a .44?

Duckear -- damn good advice!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
... I really, really, am not good with any form of pistol...
So, as you can tell, I know not so much about pistols...inform me.

Thanks,
Tyler

Learn to shoot first. Learn to hunt with a pistol second.

You will be able to learn with a .22 revolver. If you start with a .44 mag, you won't. Period. Reduced loads for a .44mag sounds great, but there is no recoil from a 6' barreled .22 revolver. This allows you to learn to shoot, not to flinch.

If you are not made out of money, price 550 rds of .22 and 50rds of 44mag.

If someone wanted to learn to shoot rifles, would you hand them a .375? Then why on earth would your first pistol be a .44?

Duckear -- damn good advice!

Dam good indeed....