I recently shot a few defensive rounds into wet paper with 4 layers of denium covering the paper and her are the results.


The first picture shows the set up




The next two pictures show the recovered bullets







Notice in 45 ACP that the Hornaday 230 grain +P XTP hollow point, the Corbon 230 grain +P hollow point, didnot expand

The 175 grain Silver Tip hollw point in 41 Mag. did not expand

The 158 Gold Dot hollow point in 357 mag did not expand.

While the 230 grain SXT by Winnchester did expand it only penetrated 4"

The 230 GRAIN +P Gold Dot load by Buffalo Bore mushroomed perfectly and pemetrated 7"

The 230 grain truncated cone flat point tumbled early in the media thus limiting its penetration to 9"


Disclaimer: I did not talk to george before performing this test.. This test is not sanctioned by george roof...

Bullets today use gelatin as a test media. It's not perfect but the best they've found.DIY tests on wet paper,water jugs etc may not give the same results. The bullets are designed also to operate properly within certain velocity ranges.It also depends on what you want full penetration or something less. Best educator is to hunt with them ,from woodchucks to deer and see for yourself how they perform in the real world.

I know that Ballistic Gelitin is what the big boys use to test bullets. The FBI requires layers of denium placed over the media to test Hollow points ability to penetrtate clothing and still expand.. Take the denium away and most hollow points will expand, the clothing can and does cause hollow points not to expand. Ballistic gelitin must be kept at 70 degeree nad that is not practicle unless one has a large refrigiration unit and a controlled enviroment to test in. The wet paper makes bullets react simular to the way they do in tissue, but does not take into account bone. Ballistic gelitin does not take into account hitting bone either

Balistic gelatin is definitely not practical for the average Joe. I had similar results as some of your test bullets using wet newsprint nearly 20 years ago with Hydrashoks (that was the hollow point with the post in the middle) out of my .44 magnum. They didn't expand at all. I was a bit disappointed.

No, here is a Sierra 170 .41 recovered from a cougar, mv about 1100 fps.

Thats why the "old" cops liked soft lead semi-wadcutters. Expansion (flattening) was going to happen with just enough penetration and the assailant was going to be hurting and bleeding. Are things really that much better today???

In about 1997+- I was at The SIG Academy for an Ammunition Seminar. It was just after the .357 SIG was released and the Texas Department of Public Safety was there to look at them...and did adopt them.

Ammo from several different companies were shot through different barriers from cloth to angled windshield glass into blocks of balistic gelatin. .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W and .45 ACP were all tried.

One thing I do remember about the tests is when it came to expanding a bullet after getting through a barrier...speed does it. The .357 Magnum and .357 SIG were head and shoulders above everything else.

On angled windshield glass one bullet stood out above the rest...the .357/.355 125 grain Speer Gold Dot HPs used in the .357 Magnum and .357 SIG. They would punch through the glass, penetrate the BG and expand. EVERY other makers bullets tested shed their jackets and were either found on the floor between the glass and BG or stuck to to the face of the BG block.

I asked Evan Marshall, who was giving one of the presentations, what insured expansion... He said if you wanted to test your bullet to see if it would expand in 99% of the shots fired, plug the HP up with clay and then shoot it into your test media. He went on to say the bullets with an impact velocity of over 1350 fps will almost always expand even when the nose gets plugged depending of course on how hard the bullet's lead alloy is. Under 1300 fps you are depending on the HP to fill with fluid to initiate expension...

The ammo tested above were all under 1300 fps...even the .41 Magnum Silvertip. Last ones I chronoed were 1220 FPs. The CorBon 170s use a Sierra .41 bullet that was originally designed for hunting at high velocity. CorBon shoots their round at 1270 fps. 1100 fps for that bullet will just about guaranty it won't expand. I run mine between 1500-1700 fps and they expand nicely. Gary Reeder uses that bullet from a .41 GNR and .410 GNR at even higher velocities to take elk...it is a very tuff bullet for its weight.

Gold Dot bullets like that .45 that did expand seem to work over a wider range of velocities than do standard cup and core HPs.

I now mostly use Gold Dots and CorBon PowR'Ball in my defensive guns...

Bob Makowski

Oh and in talking to Bank Miller who was at the time the chief instructor at the SIG Academy about a year after the DPS adopted the .357 SIG, in their first 8 shootings DPS had 6 one shot stops, 7 died at the scene and the last one died at the hospital. One badguy was shot through the cab door of an 18 wheeler..apparenly the tests were correct...

I have found that a lot of hollow points don't open up. Some get clogged with fat and tissue and some I think the velocity is to slow for them to open up. Personally I do not like them for hunting, but I do use them in my personal defense handguns.

I bought some 45 caliber bullets for reloading I think they were winchesters in a 500 pack. They wont open up shooting them into oak boards with my 45acp at 35 yds. Thought that was strange when I pried them out of the boards with my pocket knife!!

quote:

bought some 45 caliber bullets for reloading I think they were winchesters in a 500 pack. They wont open up shooting them into oak boards with my 45acp at 35 yds. Thought that was strange when I pried them out of the boards with my pocket knife!!

It's not unusual for HPs to not open when striking wood. Wood is a non-fluid medium. HPs depend on fluid pressure inside of the cavity to open.

nothing ever happens allways with a handgun.