Short Rifle or Handgun?

Hello all,

A few long time hunting friends decided to take up handgun/pistol hunting instead of rifle hunting.
We had long debates as to what constituted a pistol and what was really a short rifle.
I mean the idea of using a handgun was to make it more of a challenge to get close to your quarry and not be able to easily pop it off at 400 yards or so.
Then again we did not want to go to the other extreme and say only 4†44 magnums are allowed.
The opinions were widely spread among us.

Some of the available weapons we saw were not much more than sawed off bolt action rifles with a cut off stock and chambered in calibers like 300 WSM … 308 win etc.

So after much debate this is what we came up with to handicap ourselves and “hunt with a handgunâ€.

1 – Must use a revolver or single shot pistol.

2- Must use a straight walled cartridge. Any straight walled cartridge you like.

3- Barrel length is limited to 10 inches of rifling. In a revolver that would be measured from the front of the cylinder to the muzzle.
In a single shot pistol it would be the case length plus 10 inches to arrive at a total barrel length.
For instance a 357 maximum in a contender could have an 11 ½ inch barrel and still meet the criteria.

4- Maximum weight of completed rig is less than 5 lbs ready to shoot.

NOT passing any judgments or saying that anyone is right or wrong.
By all means whatever blows your sails is great. After all this is just a game we enjoy.

Just wanted to get some of your thoughts on this approach. As well as generate some discussion on what is your idea of a handgun and what you think is a short rifle.

Joe

That's about right, but I'd throw semi-autos that are chambered in actual hunting cartridges in the mix (this should read Desert Eagle and similar). Also, stretch barrel length to 11" for the revolver to include the 10 1/2" super blackhawk.

When I decided to go hunting "Handguns Only",my limitation was a bit more liberal than yours on bbl. length and case shape. My big game hunting battery included a Ruger single action in .357/44 Bain & Davis, S & W M-57 .41 mag., and a 14" bbl. Contender in .373 JDJ. These served me well in North America, and a trip to Africa "Handguns Only". My personal limitation for Handgun Hunting has always been that I shoot offhand, or from a sitting position, resting elbows on knees. No sticks, rests etc. No scope for magnification, although as I have aged, I have had to go to a red dot to continue to enjoy handgun shooting.
Like Joe...I'm posting the above for information..NOT to pass judgement on other's choices.
Cheers,
Don

The definition I use is a gun designed to be shot with one hand. That is a definition acceptable to the State of Ohio and the Safari Club. I prefer a handgun with a total barrel length (since I shoot Encores mainly that means with muzzel brake and chamber included) of 12 inches or less just because they're easier to handle and holster but my 460 S&W Magnum may be a bit longer than that (15 inches from breech face to end of brake). The weight of the weapon wouldn't enter into my definition.

Ohio requires a "caliber" of .357 Magnum or greater, a straight walled cartridge and a barrel length of at least 5 inches for deer hunting so I'm bound by those criteria.

As far as distance is concerned, I'll take an off hand shot to 50 yards with an accurate handgun. I'll want some type of rest for a 100 yard shot. For over 100 yards, I'll want an excellent rest such as a good rock or the prone position.

When you first read your list, it seems like you're narrowing the field quite a bit, but once you think about it, there's a ton of choices that fit.

The 5 lb cap is probably the most limiting of your criteria, weeding out the longest of the S&W X frame artillery.

You did not pose a limit on sights, as Mr. Edwards has, I shoot a 2x scope on an 8 3/8" .44. I shoot a scope to more precicely aim at a specific spot, not to extend my effective range. I agree with the popular philosphy that shot placement above all else is the key. I shoot what some would call a light bullet, but others say is perfect- 240 gr XTP.

It's fun to have these types of discussions, the biggest reason to be a member of this amazing forum. I often wonder what my next hunting hand gun would be, this post has re-lit that fire and my Christmas list will definately need to be updated!

Good luck with whatever you choose.

I have two simple criteria, 4" barrel or more in my home state and being able to hit a 8 inch paper plate on my hind legs or field position with scoped handgun, more than 4 out of 5 times (my criteria was 5 out of 6 but I now have a 5 shot .500 Linebaugh). I like the 10 mm Glock Model 20 but haven't taken it deer hunting yet. No deer have fallen to my .45 ACPs, all 1911 types, but a good 200 grain bullet at 1000 fps in any caliber straight wall pistol caliber is enough gun for me. The .357 with any 125 grain JHP would work, but just not something I've carried much. I do have that 50th anniversary .357 Blackhawk to try out. (The little miser-collector voice says "don't cut the cable tie") Your list seems pretty well thought out. Total sight radius for iron sights might be more critical than actual barrel length, if handicapping the firearm. The autoloader had less sight radius than an equivalent revolver. The practical accuracy issue is my thought as to level of handicap, provided it means available shooting distances exceed the accurate range of the handgun in the hands of that shooter. If you can't see the deer beyond 50 yards, a tack-driving scoped Encore is no advantage to another person's four inch iron sighted revolver or autoloader. It may even be a greater handicap if their scope's field of view is too small to easily acquire the animal.

Whats up? Are you guys becoming the "Ted Kennedy" of handgun hunting? (OK, maybe that was a little bit of low blow). I hear what you saying, but I'm not buying.

First, I don't know anybody that just "pops it off" w/ any handgun at 400 yds. Admittedly, the single shot scoped guns are longer range weapons, but the ability to hold a 5# gun on target at longer ranges is just as difficult as holding my 744 on target at 75-100 yds.

Take a look at the single shot pistol threads. You'll see that most of those hunting from field positions (not roadhunter shooting from their truck) regardless of the caliber and gun, perhaps double the range of a revolver.

I've hunted w/ both the 44 mag revolver, 7mm L&L and 45-70 Contender (14" barrels) and .260 and .335 OTTR Encore (15" barrels). Admittedly I've taken one antelope (prone) at about 250 yds. Yet, blacktail and black bear were usally taken at 60 to 125 yds.

If you feel compelled to get w/in 50 yds, fine; I'm cool w/ that. Like you said: whatever blows your skirt up.

However in open country where I live and nearby Nev., places like Wyoming, etc. You just can't get the shots like you do in OH, FL, NY, etc. It's one of the reasons why the classic "30-30" just isn't seen out here. I'll keep my handcannons and dump my revolver long before I go the other way.

Think I'll pass on this line of thought as well. I like my 14" Contneders in .309 & .375 JDJ too much. Also have taken way too many groundhogs with the 14" .223 at this point to give it up.

Once you have a little more experience under your belt with handgun hunting; you might be able to apporach it with a less sophmoric attitude.

Seems to me you're trying to describe the difference between a pistol and a handgun. As long as a fella can draw it from a holster, make ready, take a shot, make safe, and reholster - with only the strong hand - it's a pistol. Anything else is just a handgun...not that there's anything wrong with that.

I've always thought putting arbitrary gear restraints on oneself is a bit silly. What I prefer is to try different gear and see what works best for me in the field.

What I've found after trying nearly a dozen barrels in my contender, selling it, then getting and encore, and then selling it, is that the single shot handguns don't work for me in how I hunt.

To me, a handgun has to be capable of being accurately fired offhand w/o the aid of a rest or a sling. I'm sure there are some that have mastered that, but I never could, even with the 10" contenders. If I pulled the scope off I could, but a scopeless single shot seems to give up to much.

What I have settled on is iron sighted revolvers, with a max of 7 1/2" barrel. The gun balances well enough to shoot offhand, and is easily packed. They are also very manuverable in thick vegitation.

To me a rifle is vastly superior to the single shot pistol, it can be shot more accurately offhand, and more accurately in the field from a rest.

If I hunted in a different manner, the contender and encore would absolutely work fine, but they don't fit in the manner I hunt.

Very interesting ideas posted. Thank you for all your input.
New ideas to us….. Like including semi auto pistols in the mix.
Not one of us uses one … but there is no reason why not.
Also the 10 ½ “ super Blackhawk that GD brought up. One of the hunters in our group wants to use that gun and was advocating extending the barrel length to include a 10 ½†barrel.
Then there are the standard 12†Contender and Encore barrels.
One of our hunters raised a great point since none of us has $$$ just dropping out of our wallets… that a 10†barrel plus chamber would necessitate a custom cutting and re-crowning of the barrel in cases shorter than 2â€.

So we have pretty much hammered down the final specs for us.

1 – Must use a revolver or single shot pistol or semi-auto hunting type pistol.

2- Must use a straight walled cartridge. Any straight walled cartridge you like. This includes the 375 Winchester, 444 Marlin & the 45-70. No bottle necked cartridges.
The minimum case length is 1.00 inch overall.

3- The barrel length is limited to 11 inches of rifling. In a revolver that would be measured from the front of the cylinder to the muzzle. This measurement is to include all crowns, and muzzle brakes.
In a single shot pistol and semi auto pistol it would be the case length plus 11 inches to arrive at a total barrel length. This measurement is to include all crowns, and muzzle brakes.

For instance a 357 maximum in a Contender could have a 12 ½ inch barrel and still meet the criteria.

4- Maximum weight of completed rig is less than 5 lbs ready to shoot.

5- Sights can be scopes or iron. No restriction other than they cannot extend beyond the front of the barrel.

The biggest change is the 11 inches of barrel instead of 10 which pretty much covers all 12 inch standard Contender & Encore barrels in rounds suitable for hunting big game.
Also covers the 10 ½†Revolver barrels that seem to be a somewhat standard length.
That does away with the custom barrel work.

Only point of disagreement is the comparison to Ted Kennedy…. Lol
We as group are as far apart in views with TK as the north and south poles are together.
BTW Beartrack. I just got back from hunting WY just east of Douglas.
My first time in WY… what a great place… besides the hunting, everyone I met was just great people. I really enjoyed it. Nothing but good things to say.
I did hunt with 357 maximum Contender fitting the above criteria. (actually the 10 inch criteria) and I had the most fun I have had hunting in a long time.
I think I crawled more than I walked in WI. (oh! an you do have many cactus with nasty needles). Made many fun stalks and as it was late in the season the game was real jittery…
But I managed to get a 14 inch antelope and a 4 x 3 pretty nice mule deer.
Hunting with the handgun made this a challenge for me and I price that smaller buck more than I do larger deer I have previously got.

I don’t think this would have been the case if I could have made longer shots using more powerful flatter shooting rounds like 309JDJ using longer barrels or cut off bolt action rifles.
Having hunted fair chase public lands in Colorado and Utah for over 20 years and having had the great fortune to collect many very nice animals with rifles …. I can honestly say that I am exited again…. Because of the handgun hunting challenges.
I don’t know that I will ever approach it with a less “sophomoric attitude†but right now

I can’t wait for next year…

Well fine, you keep on plugging away and keep us posted on how things go for you.

I tried floating another definition... https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=800107884#800107884 ...no takers. Use what's legal, use enough gun, have fun.