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mag primers or not?
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Hello, I've just started loading for a 4" 629 Mountain Gun. 300gr. Beartooth WFNCG,17.0 gr 2400, avg 1082 with 23 fps extreme spread. 17.5 gr 2400 avg 1077fps(that's right) with 89 fps extreme spread - do you think that I reached the charge limit?!

Now to try Win 296. I read on some posts from this summer that some of you guys prefer mag primers and some don't. With healthy doses of ball propellant I would have tried mag primers to start. What do you think?
 
Posts: 428 | Location: Western Montana | Registered: 05 June 2008Reply With Quote
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I prefer using mag primers in all my heavy loads using H110/Win296. I have only used 2400 for light plinking loads with cast bullet in my .303 so I have no advice on that.
 
Posts: 743 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 23 June 2009Reply With Quote
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I have always used mag primers in all my handgun loads....light or heavy. I use 2400 with heavy bullet (up to 405 grains) loads in my 44 mags and push those bullets at a tad over 1000 fps...as you do. Have also used 296/110, and mag primers. If you start working your loads up with mag primers just continue using them, but, remember any time you change a loading component, you will need to back off and work up again. About 30 years or so ago, we did some comparative tests with both types of primers and found that regardless of the powder or charge, the magnum primers left less unburnt powder residue in the bore, and accuracy was a tad better (tests were conducted on a Ransom Rest at 25 yards). Even in my light Unique loads (9.5 to 10.5 grains) in the 44 Mag, I use mag primers and have always had excellent results. To this day I have no standard pistol primers in my loading cabinet. Some may have differing opinions, but thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Posts: 349 | Registered: 22 April 2010Reply With Quote
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I have used both.Use the WLP primers with no problems in 45 colt loads.I started using mag primers in the beginning for everything but as I talked to folks more experienced than I, I started changing over.Flat tops right though,if you change any component in your loads start over.Let accuracy for your gun and your loads decide which you use.


"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy
 
Posts: 237 | Location: Eastern NC | Registered: 02 April 2010Reply With Quote
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You don't need mag primers with 2400 and I think your 17.0gr load is the sweet spot. You do need mag primers with H110/W296 and I recommend CCI350. However, I don't think you are going to gain much velocity with those powders. My advice would be to try them for accuracy only.

BTW, stay away from Wolf LP mag primers - they suck.

See load data

4" 44mag load data


Well, at least have an OK day Smiler
 
Posts: 242 | Location: NW Oregon | Registered: 08 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I don't load for the 44 mag, but the 41 mag does not need a magnum primer. Hodgdon does not recommend it with 291/110 and neither does Alliant. Accurate changes by edition of their manual.


Larry

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 3942 | Location: Kansas USA | Registered: 04 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Magnum primers have always tripled group size in the .44 and .45 with 296. I use nothing but a Fed 150 and have since my early IHMSA days when real accuracy at 200 meters counted.
2400 does not need a mag primer at all.
Once you understand what primer pressure alone does in the small cases, only then will you find accuracy.
I suppose I have done several hundred primer tests in the .44 all these years and found even working loads around a primer never equaled things out. Been fooling with the .44 since 1956. I have shot several hundred 5 shot 1/2" groups at 50 meters with a wide variety of revolvers and can not approach that with any mag primer in any .44.
I will forever stick with the Fed 150 and the latest I heard is that Fed has gone to a standard primer in factory .44 loads.
Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder so I won't try to change any one's mind, if you are happy, go for it.
My old SBH with over 61,000 rounds through her can still do this at 200 yards, I am the weak link. homer
Cast 330 gr boolit, 21 gr of 296, Fed 150.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Then a 265 gr RD boolit at 50 yards from the old gun. These are average groups and I don't accept worse with any cast let alone a jacketed.
All I say is make your own side by side tests with primers but if you can't shoot one, the other won't tell you anything other then it goes bang.
Now Bioman bought a new SBH Hunter and he does 1/2" at 50 with my boolits and the same loads.
I would love to see the 25 yard Ransom rest groups!
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Thanks guys.
Hey dla, I liked the report on the S&W 329 and the load data.
 
Posts: 428 | Location: Western Montana | Registered: 05 June 2008Reply With Quote
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bfrshooter; Yup, I wish I had those targets to show you...30 years is a long time ago, matter of fact the fella that conducted those tests passed away about 12 years ago. As I said above the groups were a "tad" smaller as far as the overall average through the course of the testing...not enough to make any great difference one way or the other. I just use the magnum primers as a matter of convienience, and the groups that I get with them are very suitable for the purpose..........by the way, those 50 yard groups are pretty good, but, I would add about 2 tenths more to that load to get that verticle stringing in check. I cant hold groups that tight anymore because of poor eyesight, and dont use scoped handguns either, but, when I competed in National Match Course competition as a young man.....I could hold my own with just about any shooter out there. The years have a way of deminishing our skills to one degree or another....I am just happy now, to be able to burn some powder from time to time...whether I hit anything or not.
 
Posts: 349 | Registered: 22 April 2010Reply With Quote
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The vertical stringing is merely the rear sand bag. I put the revolver butt on a bag and can't keep the same pressure. I ignore it because I know by recoil feel.
I have tried all kinds of ways to bench a revolver but can not hold still enough.
I bought one of those MTM things and when my gun goes off the whole rest flies over my head! dancing
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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bfrshooter; When I work up handgun loads I rest my wrists on the bag and allow the handgun to recoil freely as it would when shot normally....works for me. If your gun and rest are flying over your head when you pull the trigger...........your laods are WAY TO HOT!!!!! Eeker
 
Posts: 349 | Registered: 22 April 2010Reply With Quote
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I use the federal mag primer in my loads


_____________________________________________________


A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 5077 | Location: USA | Registered: 11 March 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by flat top:your laods are WAY TO HOT!!!!! Eeker


Too hot? What does that mean?? Confused

jumping jumping



"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP

If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.

Semper Fidelis

"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
 
Posts: 13440 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 10 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Whit; Believe me, you wouldnt know!!! rotflmo
 
Posts: 349 | Registered: 22 April 2010Reply With Quote
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primers are just another big variable in finding the exact load a gun likes. Not any two guns will respond the same to the same load. When using 2400 in a 44 or 45 I will allways at least try mag primers along side of standard ones. Ive seen where one did better then the other with a given load and just changing the powder charge one grain changed everything again so just stating the standard primers works the best isnt really giving good advice. It may be that way in your gun or maybe even 5 of your guns with a certain powder charge and bullet but change something and the mag primer might be the one that shines. Granted with 2400 there not needed to get an effficient ignition but that doesnt mean they wont give better accuracy in some cases. the only way to find out is to try both. Its like the silly posts on the internet by guys that are asking for an accurate load for there 44 superblackhawk. I can give a load that works in mine but it might spray bullets in yours.
 
Posts: 1404 | Location: munising MI USA | Registered: 29 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I have not found that Loyde. My loads have been perfect through six S&W 29's, Ruger flat top, four SRH's, two SBH's and two SBH Hunters.
To make matters more funny, even a Taurus .44 that I shot 1/2", 50 yards groups with.
Made up test loads a while back and had primed cases left over with mag primers. I punched them out and tossed them!
None of my friends will touch a mag primer for the .44.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Lloyd, bfr shooter deals in absolutes, yet I have found absolutes to be as rare as hens teeth in reguards to internal ballistics


_____________________________________________________


A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 5077 | Location: USA | Registered: 11 March 2005Reply With Quote
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JWP, yup, I sure do. Lead hard enough to not get sized by seating, case tension for a good burn, lead hard enough to not distort at the cone or rifling, enough crimp to prevent boolit movement, A hot primer for good ignition without too much pressure to move a boolit from the brass before that ignition, proper velocity and meplat to thump any animal alive and accuracy to rival 99% of rifle shooters!
Whitworth and I seem to have no problems shooting 1" or under groups at 100 yards with a revolver time and again or hitting tin cans at 200 yards. This with boolits, not those fancy condom things.
I deal in NOTHING but absolutes for the revolver. How can there be anything else?
We did it again yesterday. I shot a beer can on a twig at 100 yards and he shot next. Both boolits in the same hole, just making the hole a little wider.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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......."absolutes" in shooting?....ballistics?......hunting?.....Bwahahahahaha!!!!! rotflmo
 
Posts: 349 | Registered: 22 April 2010Reply With Quote
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I have done my best shooting by setting on the ground, lean back against some thing, feet about 18 inches apart, knees together. Rest the gun across the knees. Adjust the width of feet for elevation.
My hot loads, Lymans #429421 over 23.5 grs 2400, 6 shots I could cover with a quarter at 50 yards.
Shooting like this and woodchucks out 150 yards are in big trouble. 200 yards things get a bit more in there favor.


The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it.
 
Posts: 317 | Location: Lebanon NY | Registered: 08 February 2010Reply With Quote
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Bench shooting is just for working loads and accuracy shooting. We do sight either off hand, from sitting or arms only on a pad for hunting.
Two different things.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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