I know this is going to open a can of worms. I have read back through alot of old threads, and know there are much better things out there for deer than a .357. However, it is what I have. I am also a bowhunter, and have stands set up for short range shooting, and know very well about waiting and picking the right shot. So with that said...

If a guy was going to use a .357 to shoot deer and hogs, how exactly would you go about it? The pistol I have is a Dan Wesson, and I am about to order a new barrel for it. It has the 4" now, but I have found a place that has both 8" and 10" barrels for it. Would the 8" suffice, or would the 10" be enough better to justify it (cost, carry, and balance)?

I know a heavy hard cast bullet is probably the way to go, but was looking for some reccommendations as to some different sizes/weights/manufacturers to try out and see what shoots good. My thoughts are to shoot the heaviest thing I can and still keep the speed around 1300 fps or so. Who makes a good hard cast bullet like what I am looking for?

Have never had a problem taking a Texas Whitetail with a .357.(also many pigs)

Doesn't mean I can't, or someday won't.

Know your range and place your bullet well.

Longer barrel, better sight radius, better velocity.

A couple of good bullets----

http://www.castperformance.com/Detail.bok?no=5

http://www.castperformance.com/Detail.bok?no=6

I have a Dan Wesson in .22Lr with a 6", 8" & 10", .357mag with a 6" & 8", .44mag with a 6" 8" & 10" all vent heavy If I can find a 10" vent light for the .357 worth the money I might buy one.

To answer your question I would go with a 10" Vent Light barrel for the .357 I believe the longer sight radius would be better. I would not buy a Vent Heavy because of the extra weight. Unless that is all you can get. I would stick with a hard cast bullet and put it behind the shoulder through both lungs. A friend put 4 out of 6 .357 jacket bullets through a deer that came running past him up close and none of them expanded anyway.

I was going to buy one with a 16" or was it 24" barrel but it was sold before I got back to the table.

It is a simple question. Will the .357 kill deer? YES. Is it the best caliber? NO.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
It is a simple question. Will the .357 kill deer? YES. Is it the best caliber? NO.

+1 on the 357 being marginal. The rule is do some walking up front and get within 50 yds, or, do a lot of walking later to find your deer. The 41 mag or 10mm would be a good choice, the 45LC or 44 mag is perfect, and the 454 and 460 will greatly increase your range. Not sure on the 500S&W, I suspect it would be a bit overkill.

On the 357 and barrel length, I used a 6" and fount it pretty effective, 8" would be better if you are doing a shoulder or across the chest carry, and I don't think you will gain much with the 10" unless you are using really slow powders.

John

will 357 kill deer yes.Best choice no but you already said you will be using in short bow distance and i'm taking it that being 40 yards or shorter.i'm also taking a chance that you are comfortable shooting the gun at these distances already.So i say go ahead make your shot count and kill deer

As far as the barrel lentgh i prefer 8" over 10" myself and you need to be comfortable with the balance of revolver

yes get some hardcast and get shooting and show us pics we like to see guns and game

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar
-- Not sure on the 500S&W, I suspect it would be a bit overkill.--
John

Not really overkill

Just makes a bigger hole with these:

http://www.castperformance.com/Detail.bok?no=57

http://www.castperformance.com/Detail.bok?no=49

At bowhunting ranges like you mention, yes, the .357 Mag will do the trick. I'd load either a wide flat nosed bullet from Cast Performance or the 180 grain Partition at near-max loads and never look back.

As to barrel length, the 10" won't give you significantly more velocity over the 8", and the 8" balances better for me.

H110 or WW296 will get you the velocity ande accuracy you want.

I killed my first deer in 1972 with a 4&5/8th Ruger BH .357.
I prooved myself wrong before I ever developed the idea that a .357 was a little to light for deer. I've since taken a few deer with my .454 and .44 revolver's as well as a few with my single shot handguns. Maybe re-visiting a deer hunt with that same old three screw blackhawk would be cool.

The Lyman 358429 is another good bullet for deer.

357 works just fine.

PERSONALLY, if that's all I had, I'd use it but I'd never shoot one over 25 yards at most. I've shot them with shotgun, muzzleloader, and rifle at distances shorter than that and they still ran 100 yards or more. With the lack of energy of that round past 50 yards, you'd better be ready for a tracking job unless you spine it or brain it. Stay away from the shoulder blade paddle.

Are you suggesting that a good heavy .357 won't go thru a shoulder blade at 50 yards? Give me a break.

Hell, deer will run off even when lethally hit with bigger hammers. Last year, bfrshooter shot a big doe with his .45/70 and it was a tough 200 yard tracking job, and shot placement, as usual, was great. So, that strong will to live sometimes makes even big calibers look ineffective.

What kinda a break are you looking for Gatorgordo? Just where did I say it wouldn't go through? I said it should be avoided at that distance. I've seen .50 caliber muzzle loading rifles at 100 yards fail to penetrate that blade several times. I know what MOST .357 ballistics look like and as I said, my PERSONAL OPINION is that I'd never shoot a deer over 25 yards with it. But then again, I won't ever have to as I have more suitable guns that I'd prefer to use.

The kind of break I'm looking for is avoiding your bulletproof deer. What you are implying is that a good hard cast .357 bullet won't penetrate a shoulder blade at 50 yards. I'll put up all the deer shoulders you want to bet on and we'll start shooting, every one that goes thru a shoulder, meat, blade and all, and 1/2 inch plywood behind it I win. How much would you like to bet?

I'm not suggesting that I would willing CHOOSE a .357 to hunt deer with, but I am flat stating that deer have been killed thousands, if not millions of times with guns with less power than a well loaded .357 mag. How many deer do you think have been killed with a .32-20 (32WCF) or a .25-20? Do you think they are more powerful than a .357?

And so it goes.

It may not be the "best"; but it'll damn sure work.

Exactly.

As I've said on another site, I've killed deer with a .22 using a CB cap, I've killed them with a hunting knife, even a camp ax once, and several times with a stick and string where the arrow was just over 250 fps, but none of that changes my OPINION on a CHOICE. That WAS what this post was about unless I'm misguided. That shoulderblade, setting flat is one thing, but I'd take that bet if you allow me to turn it quartering away. Just last year I shot at a buck (that was killed by a friend just a few seconds later) at 110 yards with a Lightfield shotgun slug. The deer was slightly quartering toward me and I intentionally aimed at that shoulder blade. When the deer was recovered, the slug had hit the deer right on that heavy front edge of the blade and then ricocheted up the shoulder to know a chunk of hide off the top of the back of the deer. It ran almost half a mile to be killed by my friend. I had 10 or 12 witnesses(including Redhawk) who can attest to that fact. So what were the chances of THAT? In my case, 100%. So unless you walk on water or some other magnificent trait, I'd still caution a guy with a .357 to avoid that shoulder and take out the lungs behind it or the heart below it. A wise hunter will always be concerned with bullet placement instead of testing fate. And again that's MY OPINION.

If the bullet is heavy enough for caliber and has a good nose profile, I don't see the .357 penetrating any less than a bigger caliber loaded similarly. The issue I see is that it will simply make a smaller hole. Is the .357 optimal? In my opinion, no, but will it get the job done reliably if you do your part? I say yes......JMHO.

But, that said, I like really big holes in animals......they leak more.

Well, shoot enough deer and situations occur that are not expected. I made a shot similar to george's using a 150 grain ballistic tip out of my .309 JDJ. Deer went belly up then got up after a few minutes and made it into the cutover before I could get another bullet in him. This load is much more potent than a .357 mag. I trailed deer shot with '06s and .308s that were lost. "Bigger" should always be "better", but sometimes isn't.

I agree with george, bullet placement should be paramount.

Just a FYI on the Lyman 358429. You may have to crimp over the front band of the bullet and not in the crimp groove. I have a DW and this bullet is right at the length limit for the gun if loading in the crimp groove. Crimping over the front band works OK, but doesn't "look right" to me.

This has been the case since the 1930's, when the .357 mag was brought out. The 358429 was designed for the .38 special cartridge and it works really well when loaded as a .38-44 round. Get a copy of Keith's Sixguns and this is all discussed.

Hell, if MS Hitman recommends it, that's good enough for me!

Well, thanks for all the replies guys. It all comes out just about the way I figured it. I believe I will just order the 8" barrel, and keep checking around and try to find some good heavy hard cast bullets for it. Ranges will be typical bowhunting ranges, and mostly from a treestand. Still not absolutely convinced on it, I guess I will decide after I get everything all worked up for it. The gun does shoot, and I can shoot it pretty good, or at least I could at one point. I need to get back in the swing of it.

At bow ranges and with some practice, you should be fine. I use XTPs with good luck as well as a stash of Partition Handgun bullets and Black Talons. In a pinch, I will load some Remington 180 SJHP bullets and be almost as happy. Like all above said, shot placement is always the key.

quote:

Originally posted by JTPinTX:
I know this is going to open a can of worms. I have read back through alot of old threads, and know there are much better things out there for deer than a .357. However, it is what I have. I am also a bowhunter, and have stands set up for short range shooting, and know very well about waiting and picking the right shot. So with that said...

If a guy was going to use a .357 to shoot deer and hogs, how exactly would you go about it? The pistol I have is a Dan Wesson, and I am about to order a new barrel for it. It has the 4" now, but I have found a place that has both 8" and 10" barrels for it. Would the 8" suffice, or would the 10" be enough better to justify it (cost, carry, and balance)?

I know a heavy hard cast bullet is probably the way to go, but was looking for some reccommendations as to some different sizes/weights/manufacturers to try out and see what shoots good. My thoughts are to shoot the heaviest thing I can and still keep the speed around 1300 fps or so. Who makes a good hard cast bullet like what I am looking for?

If you don't mind tellin where can I get the 10" barrel you decided not to get?

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by JTPinTX:
Well, thanks for all the replies guys. It all comes out just about the way I figured it. I believe I will just order the 8" barrel, and keep checking around and try to find some good heavy hard cast bullets for it. Ranges will be typical bowhunting ranges, and mostly from a treestand. Still not absolutely convinced on it, I guess I will decide after I get everything all worked up for it. The gun does shoot, and I can shoot it pretty good, or at least I could at one point. I need to get back in the swing of it.

JTPinTX

As you can see this topic usual seperates handgun hunters into 2 camps. I'm kind of a middle of the road guy myself. I had an opportunity to over the years as a LEO in NE Oregon to kill numerous injured deer, elk and other livestock with an assortment of handguns and different ammunition. The Sheriff was a gun nut too so he didn't mind me carrying (in my SO Blazer) a few "extra" guns in the small gun locker I had in the back.

Having seen the results I feel perfectly at ease using a .357 Magnum on deer and hogs. I also am comfortable with and use the .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP/AR and the .45 Colt. For hunting I prefer barrels of 6" or longer When using revolvers. The increased sight radius is obviously better for accuracy and the increased ballistics from the longer barrels also increase terminal effectiveness. While a hard cast bullet will certainly kill it is not my first choice based on the results of numerous deer shot with it. If I'm using a cast bullet in the .357, .41 or .44 Magnums I prefer a soft cast (WW/lead at 50/50) GC'd bullet driven to real magnum velocity of 1400-1500 fps out of 6"+ barrels.

However my first choice is a good reliable SP or HP of 150 - 180 gr for the .357, 200 - 210 gr for the .41 and 240-250 gr in the .44. With the soft cast bullet and the SP/HP terminal effectiveness is increased (yes dead is dead but with these two loads the animals die quicker) and penetration is all that could be desired.

With your choice of the 8" barrel I would suggest giving consideration to a good GC'd soft alloy cast bullet if you cast your owm or a good SP?HP such as the XTP. I also suggest you drive them to true magnum velocities from your DW with appropriate loads. 1500 fps with a 150-158 gr cast or jacketed is very feasible with your revolver. I would also suggest, if you are thinking of an optic sight, mounting a Burris Fast Fire on your revolver. I have one on my 7.5" barreled .41 Ruger Bisley and it is very handy and easy to use. With my old eyes it sure brings the accuracy back. I'm also getting one to put on my 6" barreled .357 also.

What ever you do good luck hunting.

Larry Gibson

Swede-

Mine is a 715, which is stainless, don't know what yours is. The guy is Herbs guns in Klamath Falls. Phone is 541-851-0547. He is a dealer for Dan Wesson. I should have the cash next week to order mine.

I ordered my 8" VH barrel today, sent Herb the money order. Hopefully it will turn around soon and I can get it next week.

I shot the old Dan Wesson this weekend, it shot good, even with a the 4" barrel. I had some loads that were a 158 hard cast GCSWC, pushed by AA#9, I think 14.5 grains, and they went into right at 1.5" at 33 yards. That covers a 30 yard bowshot just pretty dang good.

I killed my first whitetail with my 6" Taurus model 66 using a 158gr Federal JSP. He was approx. 25yds or a little more and I was up in a tree stand. Hit him low in the chest just behind his front leg. He was kind of quarting away from me not to much though. He ran maybe 50yds and laid down to die. I know several people that use the .357mag for whitetail and it works.

Palladin, I don't think anyone said that they wouldn't kill a deer, it's just the ethical side of the deal. Your example is typical of all the deer I've seen and heard about being shot with the .357. Your shot placement wasn't the best, but even that should've shattered his heart and he will eventually die. In this case, yours ran off, laid down and died. Most do run but a well hit deer is going to die while fleeing. If it's all you have, it's legal, and it works for you, then by all means go for it. I'd never judge anyone for making similar decisions.

I haven't hunted deer with a pistol since moving from Indiana back out west. If I were to hunt them again with a handgun I would either use one of my .45LC or my new .480 Ruger just because I like these pistols more than my .357mag. That and my wife has laid claim to it so she shoots it more than I do now.

This comment may be of little value as it relates to my killing two whitetail bucks with a S&W model 19 with a 4 inch barrel about 40 years ago as a kid and I know bullets are much better these days. One deer was about 65 yds out. I was sitting high in the fork of a blackjack tree. The other was around 40 yds. In both cases, I was shooting 158 gr. softpoints typical of the day. In both instances the shots were well placed and the round hammered them to the ground. Also, in both instances, the bucks got back up and I emptied my revolver dropping each with subsequent shots.

My assessment after those two experiences was (and still is) that the .357 is light for deer/hog sized game. The two bucks I killed probably would have succumbed to the initial hits but I prefer a round that has better potential to anchor them.

When I handgun hunt these days I carry my .454 Cassull.

Just my .02.

quote:

Originally posted by Palladin8:
I haven't hunted deer with a pistol since moving from Indiana back out west. If I were to hunt them again with a handgun I would either use one of my .45LC or my new .480 Ruger just because I like these pistols more than my .357mag. That and my wife has laid claim to it so she shoots it more than I do now.

Palladin, I am a big fan of the .480. It is a great choice as it is very effective, yet it doesn't recoil too badly.